Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Incident in CNS

Old 22nd Nov 2011, 23:51
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Mr Claret

it seems much of this thread denies either pilot natural justice
Justice is not possible without knowledge all of the facts, but I'm guessing you already knew that.

Face it, it was a fairly fundamental cock up (there, but for the grace of...). Of course its going to get talked about.
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Old 23rd Nov 2011, 00:28
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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I have been told that it can be rather tiring operating an A320 on $ or so sectors in a day with a cadet....Single Pilot IFR with distractions.

My thoughts for what its worth from a bugsmasher pilot, the concept of the cadet being an S/O on long haul observing all the take off and landings will over time engrain a pattern of operations, later on less likley to make an initial cockup, and even far less likely to make a cascade of them. 12 months observation with some enroute time in the seat would pay big dividends. And cost some $$ too.

After the incident......

F/O: Sir sorry for my cockup Captain, I hope you don't get reamed for it too. I know your arse is on the line here.
Capt: Son, its YOUR COCK UP, MY ARSE.....and I am not too happy about that!
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Old 23rd Nov 2011, 02:35
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This incident should appear in the ATSB weekly summaries...Aviation weekly summaries...at the earliest next week.
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Old 24th Nov 2011, 00:51
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Ejector I think most were saying that it was an A320 operator with a cadet FO.....not too many of those in OZ!!??
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Old 24th Nov 2011, 05:46
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Which company was it ?
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Old 24th Nov 2011, 19:53
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Yeah probably in next week's summary, or it wasn't reported to the ATSB!
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Old 25th Nov 2011, 02:09
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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The Only thing I see in CNS is on the 27th Oct -

During the initial climb, the aircraft encountered wake turbulence
from the preceding Boeing 737 resulting in a bank angle warning.
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Old 25th Nov 2011, 02:12
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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"A monkey taught Yuri Gagarin how to orbit the Earth back in 1961" - what a load of utter bollocks amos2. Ham the chimp who flew before Gagarin never actually orbited the Earth; his flight was a suborbital pop so to speak. In addition given that Ham was orbited by the US, I don't think he would have been passing much of anything on to Gagarin. The Soviets never used monkeys as part of their early space program. Of more interest is the fact that Gagarin's flight was completely automatic with only primitive manual backup systems.

If one is rostered to fly with amos2, one goes sick.
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Old 25th Nov 2011, 03:53
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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I agree with migs
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Old 25th Nov 2011, 07:58
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If one is asked for gear up, one selects gear up.
If one is asked for flaps 2, one selects flaps 2.
If one is asked for flaps 1, one selects flaps 1.
If one is asked for go around flaps, one selects go around flaps.
If one is asked for take off power, one selects take off power.
If one is asked for climb power, one selects climb power.
If one is asked for the after start check list, one reads out the after start checklist.
If one is asked for the descent check list, one reads out the descent check list

It's not rocket science...it's actually very simple.

I mean, even a monkey can be taught this. And it was a monkey who taught Yuri Gagarin how to orbit the earth back in 1961!

If there is a stuff up in this rather simple procedure of command and response, then one has to ask:

1. Who selects pilots today?
2. Who trains pilots today?
3. Who checks pilots today?

I await the response from todays heroes who, I suspect, are sadly lacking in any comprehension of what I am talking about!

I really feel sorry for you lot!

Last edited by amos2; 25th Nov 2011 at 08:37.
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Old 25th Nov 2011, 11:12
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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A bit new to this are we mig?
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Old 26th Nov 2011, 08:05
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Wot's going on here???
We can't even get the dates and times correct?
God help us with your fuel loads!
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Old 26th Nov 2011, 13:08
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Does anyone have knowledge on why they went around in the first place? Who was PF prior to the event?
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Old 29th Nov 2011, 19:48
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Has anyone seen an official report yet?

Wondering if lessons have actually been taken from the Melbourne bungled missed approach and failure to report.
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Old 1st Dec 2011, 03:54
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Well it isn't in last week's weekly summary, see here:http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/3526502/aws25nov2011.pdf . So either it hasn't been reported or it truly is a rumour!
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Old 1st Dec 2011, 04:38
  #56 (permalink)  

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Given that the first incident in the link provided by Sarcs occurred in August and was only entered into the database in the last week of November, I'd not hold my breath waiting for the subject incident to be entered. Assuming it did occur.
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Old 1st Dec 2011, 05:06
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Can anyone at JQ confirm whether you are required to fill in an ASIR yourself? Or do you simply send off the internal report and JQ do the rest?
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Old 1st Dec 2011, 07:04
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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I've never worked for JQ but I can see the company wanting to be the ones who do the ASIR, rather than the pilots. Wouldn't want to have any messages "inconsistent" with the party line finding their way to ATSB...
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Old 1st Dec 2011, 08:14
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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Actually you have the option of doing either, you can either just file the report to the company and leave it up to them to pass it, or you can send it directly to the ATSB.
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Old 1st Dec 2011, 08:20
  #60 (permalink)  
Keg

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fish

ODL, whenever I've filled out an ASIR, one of the options requires you to pick the AOC. Listed are Jetstar, Qantas, Express Freighters, etc, etc.

One of the other options on it is 'ATSB reportable' as a yes/ no. I always tick 'yes'. That doesn't prohibit the 'operator' from notifying the ATSB even if you select 'no'.

If we have an ASIR next time we fly I'll make you fill it out online so you can see!
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