Qantas Exodus II
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: united arab emirates
Posts: 370
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OzzieA380 thats probably the most accurate and relevent summary of the current goings on at EK . Sadly though like many ( yourself and me included). We fail to ignore the facts and submit to the EK propaganda machine or allow our personal circumstances to blind us from the obvious.
Even 3 years ago when you joined there was fair warning especially on Prune, and here you are !
Dont worry me too , just proving the point. With the shortage of crews and the economic siutation I forecast no relief in the hours we fly and farther cuts to our package. This is not a thread creep , its just relevent to those considering the move.
Even 3 years ago when you joined there was fair warning especially on Prune, and here you are !
Dont worry me too , just proving the point. With the shortage of crews and the economic siutation I forecast no relief in the hours we fly and farther cuts to our package. This is not a thread creep , its just relevent to those considering the move.
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ceduna
Age: 71
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There you have it, even before the mass exodus has begun we have all the doomsayers passing on all kinds of negatives about moving to EK. Are fellas in the sandpit are plain worried that the influx of " experienced flying kangaroos " will erode their " bargaining " powers? Or maybe EK will take in DECs or get new highly experienced F/Os onto an accelerated command programmes? Mmmmmm......
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 665
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you're single and can discipline yourself to avoid the "toy phase" (something very few manage to do in Dubai in their first six months there), you might walk away "cashed up" after three years on an EK FO's wage, (but nowhere near as cashed up as some might imagine - certainly not to Cathay numbers).
However, if you're married with two school-aged kids, particularly if you're servicing a mortgage back in Oz, you'll be spending a few evenings every month at the kitchen table with the wife balancing incomings against outgoings - and not liking the answers you'll come up with.
However, if you're married with two school-aged kids, particularly if you're servicing a mortgage back in Oz, you'll be spending a few evenings every month at the kitchen table with the wife balancing incomings against outgoings - and not liking the answers you'll come up with.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Pretty far away
Posts: 316
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Andu
That just shows how narrow minded and totally out of the loop these QF guys are ! I was watching the news yesterday and AJ almost seemed to have a grin on his face. No more negociation.......arbitration prevails.
Having said this and reading the papers this morning, I would cancel my QF bookings if planning to travel over Xmas given the amount of uncertainty with " further industrial action planned " advertised. That for sure is a killer.
SQ, EK, V......must be rubbing their hands.
I would also be very carefull to what the minister said " any industrial action will be deemed unlawfull " you have a labour governement that very much sticks to its FWA .........and frankly.....you should thankfull. I can easily imagine what the Abotts and like would do.
For once, management and unions totally......... in accord to bring QF down ! Well done !
What strikes me is how fast the people I talk to seem to have adapted to the idea that you can fly another airline than QF. This would get my attention.
All cashed up after 3 years ??? You'll be lucky if you still have a marriage and a house to come back to.
As to working conditions.......Dubaï Houston......14 hours.....one night at the airport........and back ......if that's one's idea of fun one must love having one's bottom whipped.
That just shows how narrow minded and totally out of the loop these QF guys are ! I was watching the news yesterday and AJ almost seemed to have a grin on his face. No more negociation.......arbitration prevails.
Having said this and reading the papers this morning, I would cancel my QF bookings if planning to travel over Xmas given the amount of uncertainty with " further industrial action planned " advertised. That for sure is a killer.
SQ, EK, V......must be rubbing their hands.
I would also be very carefull to what the minister said " any industrial action will be deemed unlawfull " you have a labour governement that very much sticks to its FWA .........and frankly.....you should thankfull. I can easily imagine what the Abotts and like would do.
For once, management and unions totally......... in accord to bring QF down ! Well done !
What strikes me is how fast the people I talk to seem to have adapted to the idea that you can fly another airline than QF. This would get my attention.
All cashed up after 3 years ??? You'll be lucky if you still have a marriage and a house to come back to.
As to working conditions.......Dubaï Houston......14 hours.....one night at the airport........and back ......if that's one's idea of fun one must love having one's bottom whipped.
Last edited by Me Myself; 21st Nov 2011 at 22:09.
We do lots of ULR,LH and SH mix with min rest and no respect for fatigue, but IAH hotel is in town FWIW, and 48 hrs layover not 24 (that said I do remember doing 2 x 24 hrs there in a 10 day period-and that hurt). Just correcting an obvious mistake.
Its probably the best career move , best flying best aircraft and the more people that join hopefully less hours per month.
Plenty of Qf pilots kids grown up can now see the world properly.
Rent the old house out and work in Dubai waiting for the USD to rise , potential 30-40% pay rise when the AUD tanks.
Plenty of Qf pilots kids grown up can now see the world properly.
Rent the old house out and work in Dubai waiting for the USD to rise , potential 30-40% pay rise when the AUD tanks.
Nunc est bibendum
Thread Starter
I know of a 744 F/O who has gone- resigned before the LWOP became an option. Hadn't heard of a 744 Captain. A variation on the example I used at the beginning of the thread?
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Asia
Posts: 193
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well fatmike, using your own creative accounting methods: For a start you save 18 x 6 weeks annual leave = 18 x $10000. 18 x 4 x sim checks per year. 18 x EPC courses per year. 18 x CRM recurrents pet year, 18 x uniforms per whatever etc. etc.
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Heavens
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How about this idea.
Go to AJ and say you are sorry and got it wrong. Then tell him you are prepared to fly 90 hours per month, even on the months you have some leave. Oh, and you will happily take max 30 days leave per year, promise to disband the union and work without one. Accept whatever changes he or the board decide regarding your T and Cs. Because that is what you are considering doing in the desert.... Wouldn't it be better to do it in OZ?
Not critical of the desert, come we need pilots, but it does seem a bit at odds to me.
Go to AJ and say you are sorry and got it wrong. Then tell him you are prepared to fly 90 hours per month, even on the months you have some leave. Oh, and you will happily take max 30 days leave per year, promise to disband the union and work without one. Accept whatever changes he or the board decide regarding your T and Cs. Because that is what you are considering doing in the desert.... Wouldn't it be better to do it in OZ?
Not critical of the desert, come we need pilots, but it does seem a bit at odds to me.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Spag and others.
AIPA has a 22% offer on the table at the moment and the company has said to go and pound sand. They are not interested in doing a deal at any price.
By the way we have always been available for 90 per month, but with the transference of flying to JQ and the deliberate over manning practices we have not achieved that internationally for some time.
We are not considering EK because we think it is a better option then Qantas. We are considering EK because soon 1000 of us will be redundant and now need somewhere to go. Everyone has friends in the airline. Everyone can read forums such as this one. No-one is under any illusions about the fact that QF is a better job at present.
Its not going to last once arbitration is done however. Clifford's aim is to break the pilots union at all costs. He can't do this legally, and the solidarity of the group is such that he can't do it morally.
It is almost certain now that either the B744 or A380 fleet base will be moved to Singapore, and those that dont go will be made redundant. Those in Qantas who are hoping for the cascading seniority provisions of the award to apply are kidding themselves - the company will win that battle also in FWA no problem.
Remember the majority of the FWA judges are ex-Freehills. The chief justice worked for Ables during the dispute.
Qantas is coming to an end and some people are considering the Middle East. I realise that the demise of a good contract in another airline is a cause for celebration for many of you, but all people are trying to do now is keep food on the table and get through to retirement in an occupation and industry that is toxic, exploitative and in terminal decline.
AIPA has a 22% offer on the table at the moment and the company has said to go and pound sand. They are not interested in doing a deal at any price.
By the way we have always been available for 90 per month, but with the transference of flying to JQ and the deliberate over manning practices we have not achieved that internationally for some time.
We are not considering EK because we think it is a better option then Qantas. We are considering EK because soon 1000 of us will be redundant and now need somewhere to go. Everyone has friends in the airline. Everyone can read forums such as this one. No-one is under any illusions about the fact that QF is a better job at present.
Its not going to last once arbitration is done however. Clifford's aim is to break the pilots union at all costs. He can't do this legally, and the solidarity of the group is such that he can't do it morally.
It is almost certain now that either the B744 or A380 fleet base will be moved to Singapore, and those that dont go will be made redundant. Those in Qantas who are hoping for the cascading seniority provisions of the award to apply are kidding themselves - the company will win that battle also in FWA no problem.
Remember the majority of the FWA judges are ex-Freehills. The chief justice worked for Ables during the dispute.
Qantas is coming to an end and some people are considering the Middle East. I realise that the demise of a good contract in another airline is a cause for celebration for many of you, but all people are trying to do now is keep food on the table and get through to retirement in an occupation and industry that is toxic, exploitative and in terminal decline.
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: fairfield
Age: 81
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AIPA has a 22% offer on the table at the moment and the company has said to go and pound sand. They are not interested in doing a deal at any price.
You write absolute rubbish. I find it quite amazing that not only do you write this stuff, you actually believe it and fly aeroplanes.
The AIPA proposal I was shown detailed a 22% reduction in manpower (ie pilot jobs) but no reduction in $ costs to Qantas. (this was because those left standing divided up the 22% as extra money between them for working extra hours). I would have said that is a lose - lose proposition.
Remember the majority of the FWA judges are ex-Freehills.
A judge can only make a ruling based upon what is in front of them at the time. If they let their ideological beliefs become a part of their decision making without justification they leave their decisions open for successful appeal, so have faith in the process.
Having said all that, we know they're going to sack a lot of us anyway, jump or be pushed, that's what people are thinking now.
Having said all that, we know they're going to sack a lot of us anyway, jump or be pushed, that's what people are thinking now.
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: fairfield
Age: 81
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What the,
Let us say that you have an airline and you have 100 pilots each doing 80 hours per month at $100 per hour, then the total cost of that flying is $800,000 per month.
Now you increase pilot productivity by 22%. You will then have 82 pilots doing the work, doing 97.6 hours per month at $100 per hour. The remaining pilots work more and earn more money ( $9760 pm instead of $8000); 18 pilots have to go somewhere else for a job; and there is no saving in salary or wages to you and your airline.
Where are the real dollars?
Now if your pilots were on a salary and did the extra hours for no extra money --there's real dollars.
Let us say that you have an airline and you have 100 pilots each doing 80 hours per month at $100 per hour, then the total cost of that flying is $800,000 per month.
Now you increase pilot productivity by 22%. You will then have 82 pilots doing the work, doing 97.6 hours per month at $100 per hour. The remaining pilots work more and earn more money ( $9760 pm instead of $8000); 18 pilots have to go somewhere else for a job; and there is no saving in salary or wages to you and your airline.
Where are the real dollars?
Now if your pilots were on a salary and did the extra hours for no extra money --there's real dollars.
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: fairfield
Age: 81
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For a start you save 18 x 6 weeks annual leave = 18 x $10000. 18 x 4 x sim checks per year. 18 x EPC courses per year. 18 x CRM recurrents pet year, 18 x uniforms per whatever etc. etc.
A saving: yes.
Big dollars: no
22% saving: not in dollars
22% saving: yes in pilot numbers.
3% saving: yes in dollars