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QANTAS Exodus

Old 6th Nov 2011, 07:36
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They do a damn good job, some of them can even handle an inflight shutdown and manage it through to a safe landing like the professionals they are.
Some of them??? ***arkinhell!!!
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Old 6th Nov 2011, 08:03
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Oh for Feks sake. This is not about whether or not young guys at QLink are any good. Go elsewhere, thanks.

Back on topic, it really is an intriguing situation. As DirectAnywhere pointed out, it's a certain demographic leaving. Virtually all of them would have been able to go to Jet* on LWOP under the MOU if they were interested. Guys are voting with their feet and it may end up biting the 'Group'. It seems 'anywhere but Jet*' may be the theme?
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Old 6th Nov 2011, 08:29
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This is not a pissing competition about Qlink, I believe the Qlink cadetship / experience reduction has been a social science experiment, a beta test if you like, that will certainly effect the big Q.

It could be suggested the onestar cadetship, is the next step, then who do you think is next ?.

This Qlink topic is a lot more related to your issue than you think.

To me, it would appear the company is trying to break the present structure, offering MOU's to onestar, the sand pit, LWOP,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, why would they be HAPPY to offer these programs ?. Think bigger picture Tinee.
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Old 6th Nov 2011, 08:49
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Andu, I understand where you are coming from (as would almost any Qf driver) but please give a thought to guys who worked their butts off to get 'the' telegram/letter from the the best airline in the world saying they had a hold or a start date or a cadetship. All any of us ever wanted to do was to push the thrust up on 34 out of Sydney 'Ladies and Gentlemen, on the right side of the aircraft you should get a magnificent view of the Opera House, Bridge, and Sydney Harbour as we take off for London' on 'the' QF1. Hearing those words said to you for the first time 'Qantas 1 - you are cleared for Takeoff' is an emotional experience.

The 'dream' has been removed by the biggest bunch of incompetent thieves known to the airline industry.

No comment on this thread should be seen as derisory to any other pilot, but for the guys who proudly donned their Qantas uniform (including those militant ties) this is a very sad time.

Allow us a little latitude please. We mean no harm.

It is not even that dream has been removed, but HOW its been removed, and by whom...
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Old 6th Nov 2011, 09:48
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Can someone tell us how many Jetstar people are also leaving for Dubai? Heard they are losing captains as well. A contact up there seems to think the JQ applications are coming thick and fast since QF guys were given MOU commands hence delaying their upgrade time.
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Old 6th Nov 2011, 16:48
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Crusty.

Nice try at $hit stirring.

There have been a total of 4 MOU commands, all on the A320, all out of DRW.

Of the many guys from QF that I know that are leaving, none have mentioned waiting for an MOU slot.

We are more then aware that Joyce wants us run out of the group all together.

Given the massive expansion of the 'amazing business' at the moment, I think that command opportunities for the prime under cutters of Australian aviation are well and truly safe.
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Old 6th Nov 2011, 18:26
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What is happening to Qantas is called "Hollowing out", its rather like what happens to Eucalypts - smooth and strong looking on the outside until the branch just drops off and you can see that the termites have eaten it out from the inside.

The cause is simple:

- being a senior manager in an airline is a dream job for a narcissist because of the ability to use the travel and upgrade perks to win friends and influence.

- The short term bonus structure constrains them to think tactically, not strategically. All they are thinking of as narcissists is themselves and their immediate gratification, the next bonus and their exit/retirement plan.

- As narcissists, they believe that anyone below them in the organisational structure really is " below them" and thus their welfare and contribution can be safely ignored. This leads to the current toxic state of workplace relations.

- As narcissists, they really believe that they make everything happen as Margaret Jackson famously said, and that their contribution to the airline justifies their remuneration. This is why Joyce gets the big bucks.

- The retirement / exodus of pilots will be highly satisfying to the narcissists on at least Four grounds:

* It reinforces their feelings of omnipotence that people would actually react this way on account of something the narcissist has done - "We have had to make tough decisions, like the savvy business leaders we are, blah blah,"

* It reinforces the group think that the "legacy airline" had to go anyway.

* It removes possible sources of experience and wisdom that might possibly confront and challenge the narcissists - they hate that. The like to feel intellectually superior to their underlings - thats why they are at war with the engineers. The new hires will be inexperienced and therefore easier to dominate. They want their employees to be compliant arse lickers.

* The financial consequences of not having to pay for experience are good, and the new hires will be cheaper.


As I said, I know how this one ends; a tired and marginally experienced Qantas pilot, already dealing with a few maintenance related system failures, stuffs up a landing and comes off the end of the runway. The sweet little Thai cabin crew run for their lives from the fire since saving their passengers is above their pay grade. Remember what happens with Eucalypts, the branch drops off with no warning, often in the gentlest of breezes.

Last edited by Sunfish; 6th Nov 2011 at 19:02.
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Old 6th Nov 2011, 18:50
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I know of at least 20 have gone to JQ. I know two personally. Both are F/O's, very experienced F/O's. Because of ageing parents, because of family commitments it is better for them to stay in Australia, rather than chase the big bucks OS, both are saddened that they had to leave QF, but both are glad they got out as well. They know of more who are looking at JQ, for no other reason then they want to stay here, and they believe JQ will still be around for a while, that is more important then the drop in pay. I have one son on the JQ A330, two in QF, and the JQ bloke is far happier and more settled than the other two. The other two are confused, frightened to take on to much debt, re mortgages etc (believe me so am I, guess who will end up paying if they cannot!) and look to me to solve their problem. They are both home bodies, love their friends, their sport, their pets and their family, and this is the human side to this mess, that should not be. If they all end up in JQ, it might be for the best, and I never thought I would say that.
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Old 6th Nov 2011, 19:40
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Sorry my question was how many are leaving Jetstar for the middle east. I have it on good authority that they are losing people as well as Qantas.
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Old 6th Nov 2011, 19:45
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Shed,

Too obscure for me. There have been cadets at QF since before I was born so inexperienced pilots is not a new thing. The merits, or otherwise, of the QF cadet programme have been done to death.

The unavoidable issue is that AJ is on record as saying QF will not grow for the next 3-5 years. I suspect it will be a fair bit longer than that (how long are the 380s 'deferred' for?) The current pilot surplus is said to be about 150 but I think it's more like 250. They are offering LWOP, MOU etc in a bid to do everything they can to avoid redundancies, not because they're nice blokes but because it would cost big money, be a PR nightmare and probably result in court action. Guys are leaving because they see they will stay exactly where they are, on minimum hours, for the next 5 years and probably longer. Previously, it has been a bit of a trickle of guys leaving. The trickle is getting stronger and many suspect it will turn into a torrent.
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Old 6th Nov 2011, 19:56
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Tinee,

The old cadetship was a good thing, the company took the brightest and invested a great deal of money in them. These guys and gals did not have a window seat for many years, but they were/are future Captains.

The "New" cadetship has a clear and concise financial imperative, window seat straight up with, IMHO zero investment in the staff, they are cheaper, more compliant, arse lickers, read sunfish's post, the narcism is there for all to see.
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Old 6th Nov 2011, 20:57
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Crusty.

My apologies. I too have heard many JQ guys leaving for both EK as well as the Chinese carriers.

Theresa.

Crusties question was in relation to Direct Entry Captains. You are right about the 40 or so guys that have transferred to JQ, but only 4 have been captains. The rest have been as F/O's.
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Old 6th Nov 2011, 21:23
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Mohikan You might be thinking of the four MOU commands going to Darwin but the total number of MOU Commands is about 15. A lot of them have got east coast bases. I got this number from one of the blokes doing his upgrade. The pilots coming over as F/Os are probably the LWOP blokes who don't qualify for the MOU. I have also heard that it is unlikely that more MOU commands will be made available.
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Old 6th Nov 2011, 21:35
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I have also heard that it is unlikely that more MOU commands will be made available.
The story from qf flight ops is that there will be another 50 it's including mou commands being advertised late this year or early next year.
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Old 6th Nov 2011, 21:42
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Fair enough I heard my version from JQ flt Ops who are probably the last to know.
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Old 6th Nov 2011, 22:01
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Seniority sure is a double edged bitch at times. Maybe pilots need to rethink the benefits for individuals vs all pilots industrywide equation. Maybe we need to think about just how valuable seniority really is? More mobility sure would help pilots be less captive.

Management is a different animal to 30 years ago, maybe there are a few aspects about our profession that also need to evolve to better deal with the way they wish to treat us?

Last edited by waren9; 7th Nov 2011 at 02:41.
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Old 6th Nov 2011, 22:38
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QF to JQ on MOU

Mohikan, dont let the facts get in the way of a good story mate...

15 commands were advertised as open to JQ & QF. 1 was an internal base transfer from NZ back to Aus. The remaining 14 went to QF MOU pilots as follows: 5 SYD, 3 MEL, 6 DRW. The most recent ad of 6 additional DRW commands during late September, has not been published yet, but the word is based on the number of QF guys that applied for the previous lot, these will go to QF too.

I am unsure as to the amount of QF guys that will be starting as F/O's on the bottom of the list (LWOP from QF), but have heard it to be at least 20.

Last edited by stainedpantystealer; 6th Nov 2011 at 22:53.
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Old 6th Nov 2011, 22:55
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600lb - the rowing race analogy is a classic!
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Old 7th Nov 2011, 03:59
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I have it on very good authority that the A330 is already short 8 S/O's at present, and the 744 is getting very thin. Divisors are right up there already, and management have not budgeted on all these resignations. They've left no fat. Apparently the A380 and 767 are the only two airframes that have a surplus of pilots. The A380 will not down-train people to other fleets, as it's obviously the only fleet that's growing; and most of the guys that are resigning/leaving are from the 767 fleet.

The word is: projecting forward with forecast retirements and LSL approaching, in 6-12 months time mainline are literally going to need more pilots.

I've heard this from a few guys now... one of whom has been to a meeting confirming this. Can this be right?!?!? Only at Qantas.

In fact, on ABC News24 last night, they stated that "Qantas are losing a pilot a day on average to other carriers"... if this is true then the floodgates are indeed opening! Good luck to all.
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Old 7th Nov 2011, 05:13
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I personally believe that most of the young capts at QLINK do a great job and are on the ball.

What i find amazing is that QLink is very short of upgradable FO's yet QANTAS has many SO's (some exQlink) who could easily slot into a command slot without having to leave the group.

I believe that the Northern operation has exploded to the extent that many lines are rostered uncrewed and Alliance will be retained well after the arrival of two 717's onto SSA's routes.
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