QANTAS Exodus
So we have guesses of 250 over 60,
longhaul 111 over 60,
more than 50 over 60 short haul,
Not forgetting shorthaul can stay on working and some long haul can move seats/aircraft.
So 200 odd leave in the next 3-5 years at best. 10% of the ranks at best over a few years.
Expansion should be over that. Instead things are reducing.
Any way you put it, I do not believe that many are 'close' to leaving anytime soon.
Go back 30-40 years of recruitment and there aren't many retirements in the pipeline.
Stagnation and few retiremnts over the next few years will not see much of a good career prospect unfortunately for QF seniority numbers.
longhaul 111 over 60,
more than 50 over 60 short haul,
Not forgetting shorthaul can stay on working and some long haul can move seats/aircraft.
So 200 odd leave in the next 3-5 years at best. 10% of the ranks at best over a few years.
Expansion should be over that. Instead things are reducing.
Any way you put it, I do not believe that many are 'close' to leaving anytime soon.
Go back 30-40 years of recruitment and there aren't many retirements in the pipeline.
Stagnation and few retiremnts over the next few years will not see much of a good career prospect unfortunately for QF seniority numbers.
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As I hear it, there have been a few bid to be B737 F/O as they approach 65.
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Jeez mate, are you serious, 69 and still working? Flat out around Oz? Haven't they got anything else to do? Jeez, life must be dull back in the old country. Looks like I will be the freak retiring in his '50's
Tallest Poopy,
You must be management by the twaddle you post here so I guess that's why little ole legendary you is retiring in his 50s.
One last question for you before I again ignore your rantings. If everything is about cost, why are there still five-star hotels in the world that do very nicely? If everything was about cost, then surely the world should just be full of el-cheapo dump motels. The answer is that people will pay more if they believe that they're getting what they pay for. The problem with Qantas is that Dixon and Joyce know nothing but cost-cutting - they want to provide a Jetstar product but charge a Qantas price. Everybody who's out there doing the job has seen it happen over the last decade, but our legendary managers can't (or won't) be told.
Finally, if you really are in Europe, why don't you just annoy them and leave us alone!!
You must be management by the twaddle you post here so I guess that's why little ole legendary you is retiring in his 50s.
One last question for you before I again ignore your rantings. If everything is about cost, why are there still five-star hotels in the world that do very nicely? If everything was about cost, then surely the world should just be full of el-cheapo dump motels. The answer is that people will pay more if they believe that they're getting what they pay for. The problem with Qantas is that Dixon and Joyce know nothing but cost-cutting - they want to provide a Jetstar product but charge a Qantas price. Everybody who's out there doing the job has seen it happen over the last decade, but our legendary managers can't (or won't) be told.
Finally, if you really are in Europe, why don't you just annoy them and leave us alone!!
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Sixty TP, but some did not make it that far, as quite a few were ex RAAF or RAF and had rather a unpleasant time during the second world war, (seems crazy doesn't it, but keep in mind, some were pilots in bomber command, aged 19 years.) Their health suffered accordingly, as some had ended up as POW's in Germany. They were a interesting bunch, some as mad as cut snakes, (do you blame them) but Christ they could fly, the rest had a year that was disruptive to their careers, (we won't go there) so very few got to sixty, not in TAA anyway.
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Qantas was 55 until early 90s. [when a vote was made allowing it go to 60]
Prior to this it was 55 extendable to 58 at both pilot and companies discretion.
Due to Keating's changing of super rules in late 80s quite a few retired at 55 and went to Singair on a 4 1/2 year contract.
Qantas Div 2 super [and I think Div 1 as well] is finalised at 30 June following 55th birthday.
It is true that number 1 is on the 737 at 69!
edited to correct Stark's aircraft [typo]
Prior to this it was 55 extendable to 58 at both pilot and companies discretion.
Due to Keating's changing of super rules in late 80s quite a few retired at 55 and went to Singair on a 4 1/2 year contract.
Qantas Div 2 super [and I think Div 1 as well] is finalised at 30 June following 55th birthday.
It is true that number 1 is on the 737 at 69!
edited to correct Stark's aircraft [typo]
Last edited by Tankengine; 13th Nov 2011 at 06:56.
theheadmaster,
The age 65 limit applies to both Cpt and F/O in most international airspace for the simple reason that the F/O is in command at times during cruise and ICAO rules don't allow that.
The age 65 limit applies to both Cpt and F/O in most international airspace for the simple reason that the F/O is in command at times during cruise and ICAO rules don't allow that.
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Teresa and TankEngine, thanks, I thought it used to be 55 or 58. I also recall from my short time, that some guys used to leave early to go to SQ, or to Cathay, with the plan to "retire in ten years with a million bucks in the provident fund".
Shark Patrol, you asked why do I come on to these forums? Firstly I am an Australian living overseas, so it is nice to keep up with what is happening 'back home'. I am not 'management', we just spend our pennies wisely. I yearn to return to Australia, to settle in a country town, listen to the chorus of birds welcome each day, and to feel the warm Australian sun.
I dislike the 'bar room' nature of the Oz forums, where you are praised if you agree with 'the mob' and vigourously shouted down if you query the 'party line'.
I feel passionately that 'the mob' here are failing to think ahead, like good pilots should. Standing around and saying 'replace the CEO', 'remove the Board', 'the spokeperson lies' etc does not solve the current problem. What if the figures QF is saying are correct? Nobody, and it would appear not even the Union, seems to have a strategy. You need to be suggesting alternatives, just denying what QF is saying will not make it go away.
I really hope that the Union is sitting down with FWA and suggesting ways ahead, ways that you can be part of the solution, not as part of the problem. Either way, you can bet QF is sitting down, laying out its plans, making its case. This is the last chance. In two weeks Fair Work Australia may implement the QF future, that you dread.
Shark Patrol, you asked why do I come on to these forums? Firstly I am an Australian living overseas, so it is nice to keep up with what is happening 'back home'. I am not 'management', we just spend our pennies wisely. I yearn to return to Australia, to settle in a country town, listen to the chorus of birds welcome each day, and to feel the warm Australian sun.
I dislike the 'bar room' nature of the Oz forums, where you are praised if you agree with 'the mob' and vigourously shouted down if you query the 'party line'.
I feel passionately that 'the mob' here are failing to think ahead, like good pilots should. Standing around and saying 'replace the CEO', 'remove the Board', 'the spokeperson lies' etc does not solve the current problem. What if the figures QF is saying are correct? Nobody, and it would appear not even the Union, seems to have a strategy. You need to be suggesting alternatives, just denying what QF is saying will not make it go away.
I really hope that the Union is sitting down with FWA and suggesting ways ahead, ways that you can be part of the solution, not as part of the problem. Either way, you can bet QF is sitting down, laying out its plans, making its case. This is the last chance. In two weeks Fair Work Australia may implement the QF future, that you dread.
TP being an expat means that you can't keep up with the day to day happenings in the land of your birth so when you make a comment it is from the perspective of an outsider. If you witnessed the press conference when the APA bid was announced then you would have seen GD jumping out of his skin at the thought of all the money he was going to make out of it.
What is happening at QF is a further attempt at getting their hands on the money. Clearly I am not the only person with this view as the Senate Enquiry is demonstrating. Parliament simply wouldn't be wasting its time if it thought that QF was a well run company. The pollies would not have failed to notice the decline in service and the running down of the fleet with all the travel that they do. To them and to most Oz based airline employees what QF management say and what they do does not add up.
If QF are losing 200m on international then they should be investing in the international product, not setting up new airlines in Asia which would seem to be a riskier strategy.
If you think that airline executives are exceedingly clever and must know more about the business than your average dumb schmuck pilot go ask the board of SQ how much money they have made over the last ten years in investing in other airlines. Go ask Brierly Investments how much money they made in their ANZ investment. When any airline is being run to someone else's agenda then the business goes on a downhill slide. The APA bid demonstrated that the long term survival of QF is of little interest to those who want to line their pockets.
On another point, watch Question Time and see why opposing points of view get shouted down. Its the Australian way of having a debate. Get used to it or don't log in.
What is happening at QF is a further attempt at getting their hands on the money. Clearly I am not the only person with this view as the Senate Enquiry is demonstrating. Parliament simply wouldn't be wasting its time if it thought that QF was a well run company. The pollies would not have failed to notice the decline in service and the running down of the fleet with all the travel that they do. To them and to most Oz based airline employees what QF management say and what they do does not add up.
If QF are losing 200m on international then they should be investing in the international product, not setting up new airlines in Asia which would seem to be a riskier strategy.
If you think that airline executives are exceedingly clever and must know more about the business than your average dumb schmuck pilot go ask the board of SQ how much money they have made over the last ten years in investing in other airlines. Go ask Brierly Investments how much money they made in their ANZ investment. When any airline is being run to someone else's agenda then the business goes on a downhill slide. The APA bid demonstrated that the long term survival of QF is of little interest to those who want to line their pockets.
On another point, watch Question Time and see why opposing points of view get shouted down. Its the Australian way of having a debate. Get used to it or don't log in.
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TG,i can assure you pilots werent the only people forced out of work in "that year".Tens of thousands of people involved in the tourist industry and related areas lost their jobs and life savings,thanks to the frigging pilots.My family lost everything in Darwin being in tourism.Nothing heroic about it.
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Redneck, that dispute is over, if we had the time over again, it would not have happened, we are more than aware of pain caused, but like Joyce we could have not imagined what Hawke and Abeles would do, that they would close the airlines down did not enter our collective heads. Insight is a wonderful thing, but like QF in the last couple of weeks, it was not on our radar. I am sorry, truly sorry about your family.
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TG,after all these years of reading on these pages about "that year"your the first to acknowledge that there was more to the that thingo than the woes of pilots.It had a devastating affect on a large number of people not even connected to aviation.Thank you for that.
Wonderful Red but what did you or your family do to try and resolve the dispute we had in '89?
Blaming the Pilots for all of your problems in '89 is naive in the extreme mate.
Why dont you blame the Airline managers for refusing to negotiate at all ( during repeated meetings over the contracts, one meeting in Lorne in particular springs to mind ) or Bob Hawke for helping to make it a lot worse whilst helping his mate Abeles. We all know what their true agenda was.
( and still is in Qantas )
Grow up and smell the coffee pal.
Blaming the Pilots for all of your problems in '89 is naive in the extreme mate.
Why dont you blame the Airline managers for refusing to negotiate at all ( during repeated meetings over the contracts, one meeting in Lorne in particular springs to mind ) or Bob Hawke for helping to make it a lot worse whilst helping his mate Abeles. We all know what their true agenda was.
( and still is in Qantas )Grow up and smell the coffee pal.
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Jeez mate, are you serious, 69 and still working? Flat out around Oz? Haven't they got anything else to do? Jeez, life must be dull back in the old country. Looks like I will be the freak retiring in his '50's
Retire in your 50's junior?? Good luck, the global economy will have stripped your super fund bare, no pensions or government handouts will exist, and the cost of living will be so expensive that your pissy little super pot will be as barren as a virgin within a year or two.
Your are truly are a TallestPoppy, one who has very little but cuts down everybody else.
Enjoy the food line.............
