Senate Inquiry, Hearing Program 4th Nov 2011
Won't do a thing Zig, the minister and government couldn't care less what we think say or do.
The general public are too stupid to understand the problem and will believe that everything CASA says is gospel.
Three smoking holes, or an icao/FAA downgrade, both of which will scare or inconvenience the sheeple are what is required before change is feasible, and there is no guarantee that change would necessarily be for the better,
The general public are too stupid to understand the problem and will believe that everything CASA says is gospel.
Three smoking holes, or an icao/FAA downgrade, both of which will scare or inconvenience the sheeple are what is required before change is feasible, and there is no guarantee that change would necessarily be for the better,
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Australia
Age: 53
Posts: 547
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ziggy,
This inquiry only happened after Four Corners. Perhaps that is another option getting the ABC to follow up? I'm sure it may wake up a few people.
Like Sunfish says so many people have tried fighting these issues. As you can see from the casa responses to Quinn and Aherne it isn't an easy option.
The GA meeting thread shows the relationship between regulator and industry is strained and that needs to be fixed.
But I do support your view that we have to try. Writing to the new minister and new das would be worthwhile. I really hope the senate do something - but last ones have been washouts.
This thread is getting closer to 400,000 views which is pretty good. Although what would a Four Corners follow up get.
This inquiry only happened after Four Corners. Perhaps that is another option getting the ABC to follow up? I'm sure it may wake up a few people.
Like Sunfish says so many people have tried fighting these issues. As you can see from the casa responses to Quinn and Aherne it isn't an easy option.
The GA meeting thread shows the relationship between regulator and industry is strained and that needs to be fixed.
But I do support your view that we have to try. Writing to the new minister and new das would be worthwhile. I really hope the senate do something - but last ones have been washouts.
This thread is getting closer to 400,000 views which is pretty good. Although what would a Four Corners follow up get.
Last edited by halfmanhalfbiscuit; 10th May 2013 at 18:05. Reason: Was not were.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Styx Houseboat Park.
Posts: 2,055
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pprune does MKR.
Naughty Sarcs. Friday afternoon post and an ICAO annexe strip down – combined. You may have just spoiled the weekend for one or two. Even the Teflon coated ICAO spin boffins, deep within the bunker may have felt a ripple from that blast. Been a long while coming, I wonder if ICAO have finally decided to act against rogue states, especially those with over 2000 dodgy differences lodged. Yes, we have a lot to be proud of, I'm not surprised that McComic and crew felt free to gazump the AMROBA meeting; just to straighten out the ills of society mob. Dirty job, but someone had to do it....
Biccy wants a telly show, something dreary like Four Corners; but I strongly recommend we approach a real blockbuster – something like My Kitchen Rules. Now with the MKR format we would have some traction. Imagine (if you dare) the dodgy dishes menu from CASA in fierce competition with the ATSB feather light confections. I can just see the sweaty, happy faces hi-5-ing like crazy, serving up great steaming mounds of highly seasoned food to the ICAO judges. The FAA could have a team, bring in the Kiwis and the boys from PNG. Now that boys and girls - would be a TV show. Going to stop now, before something busts....
Sponsored by the Homogeneous Voodoo Victualer's Union. (Awarded a massive 8 points for their Fudge Brownies). etc.
HMHB – "This inquiry only happened after Four Corners. Perhaps that is another option getting the ABC to follow up?"
Sponsored by the Homogeneous Voodoo Victualer's Union. (Awarded a massive 8 points for their Fudge Brownies). etc.
Last edited by Kharon; 10th May 2013 at 21:39. Reason: Gobbles would get it sorted.
How is it that that man can rise up like a
Soufflé
at sparrafart , compose such digressive confections , add spice to the discourse, never complain of the heat in the kitchen,and give vent to all manner of airisms, all STRUNG TOGETHER in a POT-POURRI fashion that could almost be called egg-centric? I ask.
Soufflé
at sparrafart , compose such digressive confections , add spice to the discourse, never complain of the heat in the kitchen,and give vent to all manner of airisms, all STRUNG TOGETHER in a POT-POURRI fashion that could almost be called egg-centric? I ask.
Last edited by Fantome; 10th May 2013 at 21:02.
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Holland
Age: 60
Posts: 560
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MCR?
MCR - My CAsA Rules. And the scheduled viewing time on TV would be at 1659 every Friday. I imagine the dishes created each week would always contain pineapples? And as for the host, well that would have to be the Skull (ESSO). Bit it is amazing the similarities between the Screaming Skull and Gordon Ramsay! Imagine both of them working together, in tandem, within a Star Chamber?? Frightening!
Anyway, off to prepare the voodoo cooking cauldron, a virtual chamber pot filled with CAsA philes, special audit reports, ICC responses, old cigar butts, a dash of pony pooh and some herbs, spices and beetlenut!
Anyway, off to prepare the voodoo cooking cauldron, a virtual chamber pot filled with CAsA philes, special audit reports, ICC responses, old cigar butts, a dash of pony pooh and some herbs, spices and beetlenut!
Last edited by my oleo is extended; 10th May 2013 at 21:18. Reason: Gobbles would kick Skull and Ramsay's ass
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Styx Houseboat Park.
Posts: 2,055
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Catalyst !- Catamitus Capers would be nearer the mark, probably get a rainbow motif and everything. Your Four Cornets show may have provided an insipid, sanitised, politically correct grab of the story – but they got nowhere near starting the tale, providing the answers or even getting any more public attention than a Coles advert.
GFR for DAS is good – Ex IC HART is better, much, much better. I like the idea of putting an articulate, clever fox into the chook shed. Yep, that would please me greatly....
..
GFR for DAS is good – Ex IC HART is better, much, much better. I like the idea of putting an articulate, clever fox into the chook shed. Yep, that would please me greatly....
..
I do hope someone paused long enough to absorb this stuff:
Remember folks: Arguing with the monkeys is exactly what the organ grinders want you to waste your time doing.
… Remember that we [CASA] actually don't write the regulations. Everybody thinks that poor old CASA writes this stuff, but I assure you we don't. It's actually the office of legal drafting in the Attorney-General's Department.
…
Accusation that CASA is sort of judge, jury and executioner.
There was an element of truth in it and I'll be the first to admit it. It is not out of choice. It is what is written in the Civil Aviation Act and this is what Parliament has told us to be.
…
And the final myth which is going around at the moment is that we were the inventors of strict liability and that we're taking the industry that way. Not so. Strict liability is government policy. Strict liability is about fault and whether fault shows that there is intent or not. In fact it's entirely within the Attorney-'General's Department and CASA has no input to it whatsoever and that's important.
…
…
Accusation that CASA is sort of judge, jury and executioner.
There was an element of truth in it and I'll be the first to admit it. It is not out of choice. It is what is written in the Civil Aviation Act and this is what Parliament has told us to be.
…
And the final myth which is going around at the moment is that we were the inventors of strict liability and that we're taking the industry that way. Not so. Strict liability is government policy. Strict liability is about fault and whether fault shows that there is intent or not. In fact it's entirely within the Attorney-'General's Department and CASA has no input to it whatsoever and that's important.
…
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Opportunity
Hi All,
Just to get it right, 4Corners may have been part of the catalyst, but there was much more going on behind the scenes.
The audit from CASA they had was 45 pages or so, I FOI's the same report that had 103 pages that were very damning to CASA which is now in the hands of the FAA.
Once the senate recommendations are out, it would be a golden opportunity to send correspondence from pilots, with names, to either our Minister or Shadow. Overwhelm them with the volume of concern.
The information on here is valuable and needs to be sent directly to them.
I understand that Albanese has no interest, I've emailed and FOI'd conversations between him and others, the response was pathetic, 4 letters which is an absolute crock. He never responded to my personal email either, silence speaks volumes. Either way, I believe inundate them.
I have a journalist from a high circulating newspaper who has already received the ok from my legal team and he is ready to pounce on May 23rd.
The more pilots that grab this opportunity with both hands and use the attention post Senate findings, the more chance for change. Rather than staying cocooned in cyber world with an alias, tell the bastards what they need to hear without fear.
Sensationalism via the media will mushroom this case and here is where opportunity presents itself for pilots to have their say. Instead of the attitude of "what's the point, nothing changes" flip it to there IS a bloody point and we need to be proactive with our genuine concerns.
After the Senate, it would be great to see a large number of letters/information sent to the Minister/s office. Everyone writes, me/you pilots need justified action, not just words.
I know the history of Senates but my optimism is justified. As I believe if you could all just expose yourselves (I know that is difficult), not on Pprune, but to our ministers, then that's a contribution to your own industry that is in trouble.
Writing will create conversation and the occasional laugh on this great site, but it is now an opportunistic time for action and to transfer the information and concerns to those who need to hear it.
I hope I have not offended anyone, if I have, I apologise.
I absolutely do see this time as a golden opportunity to unite, write, overwhelm and support an industry that is crumbling due to muted voices that are unable to pursue justice and safety as fear has become a barrier.
CASA and the ASTB have a lot to answer for as they put so much pressure on pilots to remain silent. That's not safe. I am a product of their tactics and so are many others. Even though it seems like a hopeless task, it is true that in the midst of difficulties, lies opportunity.
Shift all this knowledge and concern into reality with pride that you are proud pilots helping your own industry to be what it should be. Safe, robust and open communication with the Chiefs. Change, change, change.
Take a chance and take care,
Ziggy
Just to get it right, 4Corners may have been part of the catalyst, but there was much more going on behind the scenes.
The audit from CASA they had was 45 pages or so, I FOI's the same report that had 103 pages that were very damning to CASA which is now in the hands of the FAA.
Once the senate recommendations are out, it would be a golden opportunity to send correspondence from pilots, with names, to either our Minister or Shadow. Overwhelm them with the volume of concern.
The information on here is valuable and needs to be sent directly to them.
I understand that Albanese has no interest, I've emailed and FOI'd conversations between him and others, the response was pathetic, 4 letters which is an absolute crock. He never responded to my personal email either, silence speaks volumes. Either way, I believe inundate them.
I have a journalist from a high circulating newspaper who has already received the ok from my legal team and he is ready to pounce on May 23rd.
The more pilots that grab this opportunity with both hands and use the attention post Senate findings, the more chance for change. Rather than staying cocooned in cyber world with an alias, tell the bastards what they need to hear without fear.
Sensationalism via the media will mushroom this case and here is where opportunity presents itself for pilots to have their say. Instead of the attitude of "what's the point, nothing changes" flip it to there IS a bloody point and we need to be proactive with our genuine concerns.
After the Senate, it would be great to see a large number of letters/information sent to the Minister/s office. Everyone writes, me/you pilots need justified action, not just words.
I know the history of Senates but my optimism is justified. As I believe if you could all just expose yourselves (I know that is difficult), not on Pprune, but to our ministers, then that's a contribution to your own industry that is in trouble.
Writing will create conversation and the occasional laugh on this great site, but it is now an opportunistic time for action and to transfer the information and concerns to those who need to hear it.
I hope I have not offended anyone, if I have, I apologise.
I absolutely do see this time as a golden opportunity to unite, write, overwhelm and support an industry that is crumbling due to muted voices that are unable to pursue justice and safety as fear has become a barrier.
CASA and the ASTB have a lot to answer for as they put so much pressure on pilots to remain silent. That's not safe. I am a product of their tactics and so are many others. Even though it seems like a hopeless task, it is true that in the midst of difficulties, lies opportunity.
Shift all this knowledge and concern into reality with pride that you are proud pilots helping your own industry to be what it should be. Safe, robust and open communication with the Chiefs. Change, change, change.
Take a chance and take care,
Ziggy
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Holland
Age: 60
Posts: 560
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Creampuff, absorbed indeed.
Absorbed the way a CAsA Exec hoovers the trough clean every opportunity and absorbs those taxpayer funded perks.
Absorbed the way a wide body jets cloth seats absorb the blood spilled from passenger bodies post impact on a mountain top (as Gobbles would say 'tick tock').
Absorbed the way ICAO and the FAA have foolishly ingested past FF smokescreens.
Additionaly I posted the CAsA Chronicle Mick (or parts of) to show the stupidity of our Regulator stemming back a long way. To show that indeed nothing has changed. They are a tautological outfit replaying the same tricks over and over year after year. Something has to change.
Ziggy, be rest assured that the commentary you see on pprune is not the only work some people put in to trying to make the ****ty state of Australian aviation known widely, for the soul purpose of fixing the problems, making our skies safer and minimising risk. You see only a fraction of what has taken place behind the scenes. Pprune won't fix the issues at hand, however it is an avenue to upload enough information to paint a reasonable picture of what's happening, more so for those who simply don't have the time, means and contacts to find out what's what, so to speak.
Kharon, Hart for DAS? Hmmm. Yes, that could work. But only with a change of Board, CAsA executives and structure. My recollection was that Mr Hart contained a measure of integrity. I don't believe that would stack up on a CV as a desirable quality to get hired by CAsA these days. I am guessing Mr Hart failed to nurture sociopathic tendencies hence his decision to abandon the S.S CAsA some years back. Only those who are henpecked husbands (or perhaps wives in some cases ), Neville nobodies desperate to attain power, bullies, socio's and
have incredibly small noodles seem to match the present day PD to work in CAsA management.
Absorbed the way a CAsA Exec hoovers the trough clean every opportunity and absorbs those taxpayer funded perks.
Absorbed the way a wide body jets cloth seats absorb the blood spilled from passenger bodies post impact on a mountain top (as Gobbles would say 'tick tock').
Absorbed the way ICAO and the FAA have foolishly ingested past FF smokescreens.
Additionaly I posted the CAsA Chronicle Mick (or parts of) to show the stupidity of our Regulator stemming back a long way. To show that indeed nothing has changed. They are a tautological outfit replaying the same tricks over and over year after year. Something has to change.
Ziggy, be rest assured that the commentary you see on pprune is not the only work some people put in to trying to make the ****ty state of Australian aviation known widely, for the soul purpose of fixing the problems, making our skies safer and minimising risk. You see only a fraction of what has taken place behind the scenes. Pprune won't fix the issues at hand, however it is an avenue to upload enough information to paint a reasonable picture of what's happening, more so for those who simply don't have the time, means and contacts to find out what's what, so to speak.
Kharon, Hart for DAS? Hmmm. Yes, that could work. But only with a change of Board, CAsA executives and structure. My recollection was that Mr Hart contained a measure of integrity. I don't believe that would stack up on a CV as a desirable quality to get hired by CAsA these days. I am guessing Mr Hart failed to nurture sociopathic tendencies hence his decision to abandon the S.S CAsA some years back. Only those who are henpecked husbands (or perhaps wives in some cases ), Neville nobodies desperate to attain power, bullies, socio's and
have incredibly small noodles seem to match the present day PD to work in CAsA management.
Last edited by my oleo is extended; 11th May 2013 at 01:37.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: dans un cercle dont le centre est eveywhere et circumfernce n'est nulle part
Posts: 2,606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CASA have princi-pals. Mr Hart has principles. Indeed the gentleman has courage to back up his convictions.
It goes without saying the rug needs pulling from beneath the encumbants to give him any chance of success.
The rug and its contents should rolled, wrapped tied and shipped to Syria where it would either flourish or perish by the sword. Mr al-Assad deserves them all.
It goes without saying the rug needs pulling from beneath the encumbants to give him any chance of success.
The rug and its contents should rolled, wrapped tied and shipped to Syria where it would either flourish or perish by the sword. Mr al-Assad deserves them all.
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Australia
Age: 53
Posts: 547
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The current reporting date is now 23rd May. Just under a week before senate estimates on the 29th.
Now if they were to slip a day it could get published at 16.59 on Friday 24th.
A number would see the funny side to that one.
Now if they were to slip a day it could get published at 16.59 on Friday 24th.
A number would see the funny side to that one.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Styx Houseboat Park.
Posts: 2,055
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hart to Hart.
Ziggy # 1715 –"I absolutely do see this time as a golden opportunity to unite, write, overwhelm and support an industry that is crumbling due to muted voices that are unable to pursue justice and safety as fear has become a barrier."
E.g. Clearly – the new maintenance regulations are a crock, AMROBA tried to make sense of them and has some ideas on how to fix the problem. If the old system of open consultation (or similar) was brought in the CASA could have free access to 'expert' industry opinion and then, perhaps things would get done, properly and on time. The engineering industry is limping along, in the dark through a mine field. Now that is a dangerous game.
Ziggy # 1715 –"Shift all this knowledge and concern into reality with pride that you are proud pilots helping your own industry to be what it should be. Safe, robust and open communication with the Chiefs. Change, change, change.
A chap like Hart (or Chapess) known for integrity, with a stated objective and a commitment to cleaning up the yard would allow this industry to move forward; then maybe we could have a progress score instead of a body count. It would be so nice to do a Sunday post praising the regulator for some innovative safety measure; or introducing a non toxic series of regulation; or, applauding the Australian ICAO team for leading the way on a reform; or even just being able to admit in a bar overseas that you are Australian aircrew, without the usual sympathetic head shakes. It's doable, but think on; standing about like yarded sheep only gives the dogs a breather.
No man is an island,
Entire of itself.
Each is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manor of thine own
Or of thine friend's were.
Each man's death diminishes me,
For I am involved in mankind.
Therefore, send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It tolls for thee.
John Donne 1624. (interesting fellah).
Phelan – poses the question at Proaviation. Barrier is a classic case, like Quadrio a ticking bomb. Tick tock, indeed.
Last edited by Kharon; 11th May 2013 at 22:03.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Tallong NSW
Posts: 280
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Plain Talking has a go at this today.
Pel-Air inquiry, US concerns over safety have parallels | Plane Talking
Pel-Air inquiry, US concerns over safety have parallels | Plane Talking
That inquiry, which will report later this year, has placed on the public record, and under the rules of parliamentary privilege, some damning claims and supporting evidence of abuses of process or dereliction of duty in CASA, Australia’s air safety regulator, and its no longer independent safety investigator, the ATSB.
The submissions and transcripts include some ugly and disturbing reading. The committee appears united across party lines in its determination to uncover the truth of the matters raised. And that includes what amounts to the un-Australian mistreatment of the pilot of the ditched Westwind jet, Dominic James, who while not blameless, was turned into a scapegoat through a process where the fuller picture of CASA incompetence was (unsuccessfully) hidden from discovery.
However the difference between Australia and America in relation to the public administration of air safety is that in this country the media doesn’t give a sh*t, and has neither resources nor focus to follow and report a significant scandal in the process and conduct of the ATSB and CASA.
What is happening in the US media in relation to the FAA and the NTSB can change the future for the better, stress can.
What is happening in the Australian media can lead to continued tolerance of second rate standards in aviation regulation leading to disasters, stress can.
Australia can do better than this. The Senate committee has uncovered some disturbing conduct. But if no one is paying attention, will its work lead to results, or end up as a tragic dossier tendered to a Royal Commission into a future air disaster that could have been prevented by our air safety agencies doing their jobs rather than favours?
The submissions and transcripts include some ugly and disturbing reading. The committee appears united across party lines in its determination to uncover the truth of the matters raised. And that includes what amounts to the un-Australian mistreatment of the pilot of the ditched Westwind jet, Dominic James, who while not blameless, was turned into a scapegoat through a process where the fuller picture of CASA incompetence was (unsuccessfully) hidden from discovery.
However the difference between Australia and America in relation to the public administration of air safety is that in this country the media doesn’t give a sh*t, and has neither resources nor focus to follow and report a significant scandal in the process and conduct of the ATSB and CASA.
What is happening in the US media in relation to the FAA and the NTSB can change the future for the better, stress can.
What is happening in the Australian media can lead to continued tolerance of second rate standards in aviation regulation leading to disasters, stress can.
Australia can do better than this. The Senate committee has uncovered some disturbing conduct. But if no one is paying attention, will its work lead to results, or end up as a tragic dossier tendered to a Royal Commission into a future air disaster that could have been prevented by our air safety agencies doing their jobs rather than favours?
“Top catch denabol!”
Ben’s piece is well timed and should give Ziggy some comfort… “CASA and the ASTB have a lot to answer for as they put so much pressure on pilots to remain silent. That's not safe. I am a product of their tactics and so are many others. Even though it seems like a hopeless task, it is true that in the midst of difficulties, lies opportunity”….
Ziggy totally agree with your sentiments and share your view that this Senate Inquiry should be used as a catalyst to effect change. What previous Senate inquiries lacked was the ‘political will’ after the event.
This has meant that although the Senators and committee Secretariat have done a stellar job, within the restrictions (as 4dogs points out) of the parliamentary process, the reports/recommendations produced have invariably gone straight to the Minister of DOIT without any proper scrutiny from the lower house.
The Minister then relies on the very same bureaucracy that has been spinning out the ‘mystique of aviation safety’ for the best part of 3 decades. This bureaucracy’s only real safety concern is the safety of self-preservation and protecting the political interests of their beloved commander-in-chief the Minister.
And so it goes around and around in a continual vortex of subtle lies, spin and obfuscation…meanwhile good people in industry and victims like yourself continue to be hurt financially, physically, psychologically etc..etc
However, I would suggest, that this time it maybe a little different. Why?
Think about our ‘Minister for Bad Teeth’, the ‘wearer of many hats’, the one and only Mr Teflon and his current importance as the ‘Leader of the House’ in the continued stability of a fragile government.
Abbott and co have stated that they are contemplating putting forward a ‘no confidence’ motion in the coming weeks that the H of R sits. Therefore do you think the Coalition will sensibly knock back an opportunity to have a real crack at Albo if they’re handed a defamatory Senate report that questions his credibility as a Minister of DOIT?
No I disagree that the timing is poor, the timing politically couldn’t be more tantalisingly exquisite if the relevant pollies have the necessary factual damning evidence at their fingertips….
Oleo said:
What Oleo says are not merely just words, however like you say Ziggy the more the merrier!
Meanwhile lets keep flipping the rocks and exposing the charade of the ‘mystique of aviation’, so that the good Senators can keep probing and asking questions like Senator Fawcett’s QON 129 on ICAO (which is yet to be answered):
And the ‘closing the loop’ QON which is also yet to be adequately answered (23/05/12 Senate Estimates):
Or the good Senator’s constant queries on Airport development and the implications to aviation safety (23/05/12 Senate Estimates):
The answer to which was also largely obfuscated, however it just adds fuel to the DOIT bonfire especially in light of Albo having to appear in the AAT up against the Archerfield Airport’s tenancy group (see PP’s article here).
Therefore it is back to Annex19 for me because, as “K” pointed out, we are as a signatory state to ICAO so far removed from compliancy that the gap maybe insurmountable if nothing is done very, very soon…
Doing a Sundy Kelpie and exploring Attachment B (page 35) titled…“LEGAL GUIDANCE FOR THE PROTECTION OF INFORMATION FROM SAFETY DATA COLLECTION AND PROCESSING SYSTEMS”…quite a mouthful but particularly relevant to this thread and the AAI inquiry….hmm more questions for the Senators perhaps??
Ziggy totally agree with your sentiments and share your view that this Senate Inquiry should be used as a catalyst to effect change. What previous Senate inquiries lacked was the ‘political will’ after the event.
This has meant that although the Senators and committee Secretariat have done a stellar job, within the restrictions (as 4dogs points out) of the parliamentary process, the reports/recommendations produced have invariably gone straight to the Minister of DOIT without any proper scrutiny from the lower house.
The Minister then relies on the very same bureaucracy that has been spinning out the ‘mystique of aviation safety’ for the best part of 3 decades. This bureaucracy’s only real safety concern is the safety of self-preservation and protecting the political interests of their beloved commander-in-chief the Minister.
And so it goes around and around in a continual vortex of subtle lies, spin and obfuscation…meanwhile good people in industry and victims like yourself continue to be hurt financially, physically, psychologically etc..etc
However, I would suggest, that this time it maybe a little different. Why?
Think about our ‘Minister for Bad Teeth’, the ‘wearer of many hats’, the one and only Mr Teflon and his current importance as the ‘Leader of the House’ in the continued stability of a fragile government.
Abbott and co have stated that they are contemplating putting forward a ‘no confidence’ motion in the coming weeks that the H of R sits. Therefore do you think the Coalition will sensibly knock back an opportunity to have a real crack at Albo if they’re handed a defamatory Senate report that questions his credibility as a Minister of DOIT?
No I disagree that the timing is poor, the timing politically couldn’t be more tantalisingly exquisite if the relevant pollies have the necessary factual damning evidence at their fingertips….
Oleo said:
Ziggy, be rest assured that the commentary you see on PPRuNe is not the only work some people put in to trying to make the ****ty state of Australian aviation known widely, for the soul purpose of fixing the problems, making our skies safer and minimising risk. You see only a fraction of what has taken place behind the scenes.
Meanwhile lets keep flipping the rocks and exposing the charade of the ‘mystique of aviation’, so that the good Senators can keep probing and asking questions like Senator Fawcett’s QON 129 on ICAO (which is yet to be answered):
Senator FAWCETT: I would like to refer you back to the FAA audit that was conducted a couple of years ago. My understanding is that there were a number of deficiencies found during that. Can you give us a status report of rectifications of those?
Mr J McCormick: We can take most of that on notice, if you like. What I can give you now is that the majority issue was around the fact that we did not have sufficient training, in their mind, for our inspectorate. We had already set in place a training school which is now up and running and, in particular, their concerns were over the inspectors who oversaw what is called FAR 129 foreign operators operating RPT, regular public transport, into the US. It was around the amount of training that people had done, where most of the training in the past of say six or seven years ago revolved a lot around on-the-job training and then people had their basic training either that way or through a course to start with was perhaps not as extensive as it should have been. Since then we have rectified that completely.
Senator FAWCETT: I am happy for you to take those on notice.
Mr J McCormick: We can take most of that on notice, if you like. What I can give you now is that the majority issue was around the fact that we did not have sufficient training, in their mind, for our inspectorate. We had already set in place a training school which is now up and running and, in particular, their concerns were over the inspectors who oversaw what is called FAR 129 foreign operators operating RPT, regular public transport, into the US. It was around the amount of training that people had done, where most of the training in the past of say six or seven years ago revolved a lot around on-the-job training and then people had their basic training either that way or through a course to start with was perhaps not as extensive as it should have been. Since then we have rectified that completely.
Senator FAWCETT: I am happy for you to take those on notice.
Senator FAWCETT: Mr Mrdak, as secretary of the relevant department, how would you propose to engage with the coroners to make sure that we, as a nation, close this loophole to make our air
environment safer?
Mr Mrdak: I think Mr Dolan has indicated the relationship with
coroners is on a much better footing than it has been ever before. I
think the work of the ATSB has led that. I think it then becomes a
matter of addressing the relationship between the safety regulators and
security regulators, as necessary, with the coroners. It is probably one I
would take on notice and give a bit of thought to, if you do not mind.
Senator FAWCETT: You do not accept that your department and
you, as secretary, have a duty of care and an oversight to make sure
that two agencies who work for you do actually complement their
activities for the outcome that benefits the aviation community?
Mr Mrdak: We certainly do ensure that agencies are working
together. That is certainly occurring. You have asked me the more
detailed question about coroners and relationships with the agencies. I
will have a bit of a think about that, if that is okay.
environment safer?
Mr Mrdak: I think Mr Dolan has indicated the relationship with
coroners is on a much better footing than it has been ever before. I
think the work of the ATSB has led that. I think it then becomes a
matter of addressing the relationship between the safety regulators and
security regulators, as necessary, with the coroners. It is probably one I
would take on notice and give a bit of thought to, if you do not mind.
Senator FAWCETT: You do not accept that your department and
you, as secretary, have a duty of care and an oversight to make sure
that two agencies who work for you do actually complement their
activities for the outcome that benefits the aviation community?
Mr Mrdak: We certainly do ensure that agencies are working
together. That is certainly occurring. You have asked me the more
detailed question about coroners and relationships with the agencies. I
will have a bit of a think about that, if that is okay.
Senator FAWCETT: Mr Doherty, thank you. I ask you to take this on notice, given that we are rapidly running out of time. How will the
department implement your stated vision from the white paper and
your response to me that airports are predominantly about aviation?
How will you actually achieve that vision statement for your
department’s view of airports if you do not monitor the investment and
the upkeep? I ask you to also extend that to ALOP aerodromes,
particularly given that the transfer deed specifically prohibited local
government from doing things like building dams or things that might
attract bird life? Right at the moment there are a number of councils
who are doing things like interrupting drainage, creating bird habitats
and building dams right next to runways. I would like your detailed
explanation about how you will maintain oversight of aviation
infrastructure that is clearly degrading at both the leased airports and
within the ALOP space.
Mr Mrdak: Certainly, Senator. I think Mr Doherty was talking about
specific development commitments, but we will come back to you
with a statement in relation to how we oversight them. As I said,
ALOP, as we have discussed, is largely a matter for local government.
The guidelines under NASAG try to deal with some of those issues
you have raised. So we will come back to you with a detailed answer.
department implement your stated vision from the white paper and
your response to me that airports are predominantly about aviation?
How will you actually achieve that vision statement for your
department’s view of airports if you do not monitor the investment and
the upkeep? I ask you to also extend that to ALOP aerodromes,
particularly given that the transfer deed specifically prohibited local
government from doing things like building dams or things that might
attract bird life? Right at the moment there are a number of councils
who are doing things like interrupting drainage, creating bird habitats
and building dams right next to runways. I would like your detailed
explanation about how you will maintain oversight of aviation
infrastructure that is clearly degrading at both the leased airports and
within the ALOP space.
Mr Mrdak: Certainly, Senator. I think Mr Doherty was talking about
specific development commitments, but we will come back to you
with a statement in relation to how we oversight them. As I said,
ALOP, as we have discussed, is largely a matter for local government.
The guidelines under NASAG try to deal with some of those issues
you have raised. So we will come back to you with a detailed answer.
Therefore it is back to Annex19 for me because, as “K” pointed out, we are as a signatory state to ICAO so far removed from compliancy that the gap maybe insurmountable if nothing is done very, very soon…
Doing a Sundy Kelpie and exploring Attachment B (page 35) titled…“LEGAL GUIDANCE FOR THE PROTECTION OF INFORMATION FROM SAFETY DATA COLLECTION AND PROCESSING SYSTEMS”…quite a mouthful but particularly relevant to this thread and the AAI inquiry….hmm more questions for the Senators perhaps??
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Holland
Age: 60
Posts: 560
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CAsA enema required.
Sarcs,
Sarcs, my bold. Again, we see a glint of that arrogant CAsA belligerence poking through in ESSO's vocabulary. The fact is their training was complete crap, as exposed by the FAA. At the time, in some offices, they didn't even teach new Inspectors how to conduct surveillance, write out an NCN or where to even go to find out what the aviation regulations are or where to even find them. FACT! It was learned by chance. So Mr Skull the FAA were very accurate with their finding.
Sith Mrdak
(my bold)
Wow. You need to 'think' about that? You are the 'man in charge', Mr 'finger on the pulse' yet you can't answer the most basic of questions without having to think about it? Hmmmmm. Definitely somebody not in tune with his portfolio, and if he isn't in tune then neither is his 'Minister for bad teeth and hair'!
Gobbles, cue the CD player, time for 'The End' by The Doors...
Mr J McCormick: We can take most of that on notice, if you like. What I can give you now is that the majority issue was around the fact that we did not have sufficient training, in their mind, for our inspectorate.
Sith Mrdak
Mr Mrdak: We certainly do ensure that agencies are working
together. That is certainly occurring. You have asked me the more
detailed question about coroners and relationships with the agencies. I
will have a bit of a think about that, if that is okay.
together. That is certainly occurring. You have asked me the more
detailed question about coroners and relationships with the agencies. I
will have a bit of a think about that, if that is okay.
Wow. You need to 'think' about that? You are the 'man in charge', Mr 'finger on the pulse' yet you can't answer the most basic of questions without having to think about it? Hmmmmm. Definitely somebody not in tune with his portfolio, and if he isn't in tune then neither is his 'Minister for bad teeth and hair'!
Gobbles, cue the CD player, time for 'The End' by The Doors...
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Attourney General & CASA
I wrote to the AG orifice last year a couple of times. Once with the attachment of the CASA Special Audit. I received a letter stating: they feel that there is nothing they can do regarding the situation and it is with CASA.
Whoa, thanks for your support AG, nice going.
Who are these people that we are paying our taxes to? Trust, um...nup
Whoa, thanks for your support AG, nice going.
Who are these people that we are paying our taxes to? Trust, um...nup
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Australia
Age: 53
Posts: 547
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ziggy, all very frustrating. On the ga thread you'll see the same frustration being raised in regard to the Hempel inquest.
As Sarcs said the last inquiries lacked a willingness to act. I hope this one is not the same.
It could become an election issue if the coalition want to discredit the minister. But it is really their own agenda rather than aviation interest.
As Sarcs said the last inquiries lacked a willingness to act. I hope this one is not the same.
It could become an election issue if the coalition want to discredit the minister. But it is really their own agenda rather than aviation interest.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Styx Houseboat Park.
Posts: 2,055
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sarcs #1721 –"No I disagree that the timing is poor, the timing politically couldn’t be more tantalisingly exquisite if the relevant pollies have the necessary factual damning evidence at their fingertips."
Oleo # 1722 -"Wow. You need to 'think' about that? You are the 'man in charge', Mr 'finger on the pulse' yet you can't answer the most basic of questions without having to think about it? Hmmmmm. Definitely somebody not in tune with his portfolio, and if he isn't in tune then neither is his 'Minister for bad teeth and hair'!"
It is to be hoped that when Annexe 19 kicks in (that'll be fun to watch) the DoIT mob can remember how to use the keyboard and write the SSP; can't wait. If past performance, ministerial inertia and lassitude don't kill it stone dead; the GWM will. "Annexe 19? – SSP? Yeah we have one: Oh, it's very nice, here use my mirror to read it".
One of the major stumbling blocks towards nirvana Annexe 19 would be that not only would James have been exonerated, but the whole motley judgement panel would be knee deep in their own pony pooh. Look at the flogging Mick Quinn got when he quite rightly stated in the Senate, (my paraphrasing) - the ATSB report’s substitution test showed that the unsafe procedure that nearly killed everyone on NGA, is endemic across Australian Civil Aviation. Therefore everyone didn’t realise the risk, not just Dom.
This boys and girls is the problem we face. Perhaps with luck, in another 25 years we can get thing sorted– Gods spare me that long....
Last edited by Kharon; 12th May 2013 at 20:59. Reason: Decode Gobbles email annexe 19 incoming data.
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Great Southern Land
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ICAO - Annexe 19.
For those left wondering what the Ferryman is referencing the link below will provide assistance.
The Australian response to Annexe 19. (10.08 - 2 minutes)
It's from Zippyshare – Download Now button, no tracking. Recommended reading.
P18 a.k.a. Blind Freddy.....
The Australian response to Annexe 19. (10.08 - 2 minutes)
It's from Zippyshare – Download Now button, no tracking. Recommended reading.
P18 a.k.a. Blind Freddy.....
Last edited by PAIN_NET; 12th May 2013 at 21:18.