Senate Inquiry, Hearing Program 4th Nov 2011

[Lookleft]

This group of Senators appear to understand the deeper implications of the Pel Air incident and they don't give the impression that they are simply looking for a donkey to pin a tail on (spoiled for choice).

The only way this group of Senators can make a real difference is if their party gets elected and the Transport Ministry is allocated to a politician who is serious about change and is prepared to accept any or all recommendations the current committe makes. A major flaw in the current arrangement is the lumping of aviation in with all modes of transport and regional services. It is then a minor part of the Minsters portfolio and the attention it gets is commensurate with its profile. The votes for the Minister and by default the government is in the Regional Services part of the portfolio. Until aviation has a higher profile within the government then any recommendations from the Senate are treated with the same two page contempt that the last Senate report received.

Aviation only gets a higher profile by either: Someone like Senator Fawcett being made Minister (unlikely given its position in cabinet) or TV screens full of mangled metal and a major airline's logo on the tail.The media are more interested in Senator X position on poker machines than his position on aviation.

[my oleo is extended]

Triplets

Kharon, Skymaster, Pel Air and Transair particularly contain similar 'behind the scenes' issues that have already been highlighted previously, but safety (lack of), complacency, training and poor culture have been sighted as issues within all 3 operators at the time of their accidents. Although PIC's have received the majority of the scrutiny, it is the underlying issues similar in nature which causes the most concern.
You see, in the USA when Colgan crashed it brought to the fore a number of issues that were out there in industry which contributed to that accident. As a result, changes were made and the birth of HF really escalated.
But in AUS, you have a number of major systemic issues exposed by these accidents with what result? Heads in the sand and deflection.
Pel Air had a 'special audit. The results = pony poo
Skymaster also had a 'special audit' done. The results = pony poo.
Transair, after the accident they too received special audits, the result = pony poo.
All three operators had been previously subject to CASA audits, yet it was only after the accident that in-depth issues were uncovered. Kind of makes you wonder that had CASA's surveillance and auditing been of a quality standard maybe some of these accidents would never occurred.
Actually it doesn't make one wonder, it is pretty obvious that the Regulator had been doing a completely pi#s poor effort. But that is where we used to have the ATSB, the 'one you could trust' produce excellent investigative result which more often than not cited what we all know - the Regulator was not doing its job.

Maybe the Senators will kick a goal, maybe they won't. But most who work in this industry are in agreement that if the system is not fixed soon it will lead to a complete failure. A giant smoking hole is the next move on the chess board.

[mightyauster]

Sad, but probably the truth LL.

[Sunfish]

MoiE:

A giant smoking hole is the next move on the chess board.

And my guess is that it will be a medium jet full of fly - in fly - out mining industry breadwinners.

[my oleo is extended]

Sunfish, I am more optimistic. I was thinking something like an RPT flight with a lot of Pollies onboard.

[my oleo is extended]

One for the memory books, Flyingfiend vs All

On a lighter note,

A trip down memory lane, to the days when our mate Flyingfiend would post. Good ol days when 'robust discussion' was in it's prime!

http://www.pprune.org/pacific-genera...te-here-5.html

Gross stupidity
_____________________________________
Well, well well; I go away for a couple of months and look what has happened here!
The usual 'CASA' bashers up to their old tricks: pull something out of the air, post it on PPRuNe, mix in a few abusive mates, wait a few posts (preferably until there is a new page of posts) and you can cook up a case where you quote yourself as a harbinger of FACT!

Where is 'CASAWEARY'? Is he/she still worried about the federal police?

Anyway, I am not interested in CASA, it is the intellectual fraud that gets to me about this.

But lets see what this is all about. Off to the Senate with a petition are we?

Well, if we look at the numbers that are in the public domain:

1. Pilots in OZ: approx 30,000.
2. LAMEs in OZ: approx 7000.

On the top line of the equation: your petition supporters, add in those who 'fear retribution' for good measure and what do you get with this recipe?

A dissatisfied percentage of .7%!!!

It would be a total waste of my taxes for the Senate to cough up for an enquiry.

Plus, there are some things that the odd (no pun intended) person of the more vocal variety here may have to consider (I could be wrong, I don't work in absolutes):
e.g. police still considering very serious charges over the death at night of a single pilot into Botany Bay from some time ago;

CASA finding out about a certain Wilga that is now in Boonah that EVERYONE knows had an illegal fuel modification done to it sometime by someone when the aircraft was in North Queensland (not done well though, it leaked)

And lastly

Some person has chosen to vilify practicing lawyers.

Oh dear; no other comment required.

So, I agree; things could be better but it may take more horsepower from those pursuing it than has been demonstrated here.

Oh and don't forget, when you reply remember to move rapidly to attack me rather than debate the issues.

FF

Oh that naughty Flyingfiend, so wily, so mischievous, please come back from Montreal. The boys are out in the playground and we are looking for an extra player to join the team. What do you say?

[Kharon]

Bring on the fast bowler.

Dear old FF, blast from a murky past. I had vaguely noticed a distinct lack of 'police' type threats being issued lately; pretty poor show when it's all bluff, buggery and no action. Shame really; they were always good for a quiet chuckle or two.

Perhaps he will set his fearsome sights onto the case of the "Brown Nose Wabbit", you know the one where porky pies are discussed in court; paperwork gets 'lost' or can't be used 'cos the date maybe wrong. Don't see a threat of legal or police action occurring there, no Sir. Plenty of work there for them though.

Or perhaps he may fancy explaining words like collusion, hypocrisy, mendacity or even impeachment. Being a fearless Casasexual exemplar, the explanations should trip off the tongue in an easy manner, just so we, the great unwashed may be educated. Better send David Fawcett a memo, he'll want to hear why we all have it so very, very wrong.

Bullies, cowards and liars always have a problem when confronted with something they can't bluff their way around. Perhaps from his exalted position he could peruse some of the "in camera" submissions, and then try take the Mickey Bliss out of that lot; maybe Hempel is just a figment of our overheated imaginations; Canley Vale is just another glowing report on how good a system we have, he may even have a retrospective look a Lockhart and explain that one away (again). Now assuming the super star of CASA defenders managed to explain that lot away; he still has to face John Quadrio who is looking forward to an early, comfortable retirement. I wonder why?.

No, we just must hope they don't send that master wordsmith Wodger the Weport Wabbit out to the crease, that wabbit can swing a bat. Nah mate, Gobbles has lost his arch enemy (much to his regret), we have only lost a spoiler, bully and a teller of fairy stories designed to frighten the kiddies. But not much else.

[my oleo is extended]

The Hooded One has left the building! More CASA musical chairs.

Hoody has commenced his new role at ASA as 'General Manager Demand and Capacity Management'!
A somewhat robust title, but I am sure he will enjoy the challenge flanking Frau Staib. Hopefully he will get more support over there than he got from the Volvo driving false teeth brigade at CASA. He did manage to accomplish a couple of decent things at FF, and in a previous life at ASA the robust one kicked a few goals. However I am sure time will tell.
I know that many of the safety zealots at Fort Fumble are eagerly anticipating the anointing of the new EM Operations to lead them forward on their safety journey, and it has been rumoured previously the names Rossiter or Campbell spring forth! Should be interesting to see over the next few weeks.

So I guess the questions one could ponder is does he leave a sound platform behind for others to work from?
Has he left a positive stain on aviation regulatory advancement?
Will he still be going jogging most workday mornings prior to work?
Did his former CASA bosses give him a robust farewell meal which included pineapples or chocolate frogs? (I know his bosses would have eaten marshmallows, gummy bears and soup as their old gums are a bit soft these days and the are alergic to swiss cheese, plus dinner would have been held at 1500 pensioner time).

Yes indeed, the Hooded one will be warmly accepted into ASA, but the question is will he truly be able to make some of the changes so desperately needed or will he be merely applying glitter to yet another turd?

'Safer skies might be Hoody skies'

[halfmanhalfbiscuit]

Oleo,

Been a bit of turnover at EM level in recent years. Couple of those could have picked up Operations.

Maybe should give Vaughan a call - he's a Greg.

[my oleo is extended]

History, memories, shenanigans and pineapples

Halfmanhalfhood, that's quite funny mate. A blast from the past, Messr Vaughan. Maybe they should try Greg Ritchie, Greg Brady, Greg Chappell, Greg Louganis, Greg Evans or Greg Matthews yeah yeah?
Perhaps Quinn could come back also, and share a combined office with Vaughan?? Now that would be funny, there was so much love between the pair, NOT.
And speaking of the 'mystique of aviation',why is it that both Vaughan and Aleck in their own ways look like Richard Dreyfuss??

Now, where was I? Oh yes, what about Shane 'wingnut' Carmody, he too might make a return? So many big hitters to chose from, who knows, perhaps Rob Whyte, Patrick Murray and Clive Adams will make an imminent return to operational management roles, a dual to the death. And dont forget the ever popular people and non perfomance HR manager Gary Harbor. Then you have those who have been squirrelled away into 'projects' or other 'sidelined' positions Richard 'ALIU' White, Marcolin and Johns. Oh my, so many to choose from. No wonder the Sunshine Coast pineapple plantation went bust!
Maybe Sinclair, Lloyd and Lillehagen will return to the ever nurturing, caring and fair employer CASA?

Where is that CASA chess game thread when you need it?

'Safe skies are political skies'

[halfmanhalfbiscuit]

Perhaps a new thread

Snakes and Ladders

Or

Fantasy executive management team.

This thread has had over 250,000 views and its an important one . So best not get it shut down. :-)

[Up-into-the-air]

Aviation and the Regulator in Australia

I have been doing a browse again and looking at the effect of the TSI Act and it's application.

The originating documents are worth the read, especially the 2002 accompanying memorandum, which I found here:

TSI Act

and the second reading, which surrounds the purpose of the Act and legally forms part of the intention of the Act is at:

TSI Memorandum

The question for the Honourable Senators is:

Has the Minister and Head of Department interfered with due process of an investigation under the TSI Act???

Surely the release of the SOE to the ATSB would be such interference.

[Kharon]

COMMITTEES
Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee
Meeting
Senator KROGER(Victoria—Chief Opposition Whip in the Senate) (12:04): by leave—I move:
That the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee be authorised to hold an in camera hearing during the sitting of the Senate on Monday, 18 March 2013, from 4 pm.
Question agreed to.

Oh to be a fly on the wall; or better still, Heff's old mate at the back of the room. Curiosity is a curse. Then we have :-

Submission 19:-

"The WX station at Norfolk was not set up right. The station should have triggered a speci when the WX got below the alternate minimum OR 1500 feet agl which ever happened first. As the alternate minimum at Norfolk is 1289 feet it took until then for the speci to be triggered this was about 40 min later/after the cloud dropped below the 1500 feet point and the speci should have been issued.

You can see this in the accident report but they seem to miss that the BOM did not issue a speci just a metar when the cloud dropped below 1500 feet. If a speci had been issued when is should have and was required then ATC would have past on the speci to the pilot and this would have happened up to 40 mins earlier."

Thus I would like to think the Senate Committee will pick this up, as it is all in the report and if you cross ref the met rules you can see the BOM did not follow the rules.

Thus the pilot seems to have to ware blame where BOM did not do their job correctly (following the rules) and thus Air Services did not inform the pilot.

N.B. I had some trouble with the copy/paste for this document, so it is not in exactly the format provided.

The submission raises some interesting points that never entered my head. It just goes to show how easily you can miss important information, by simply not being 'aware' that it even exists and making an assumption that BoM had NLK 'sorted'. More reading.........

[Up-into-the-air]

BOM AWS

From the BOM site, the following is relevant in this argument:

The Bureau's Regional Instrument Centre publishes reports on a variety of sensors and can provide copies of these reports or advice on the suitability of sensors. A number of the Centre's Instrument Test Reports are listed in Appendix 2.

ALGORITHMS

The algorithms used to derive meteorological variables should be meaningful, documented, and comparable between networks.

For example, the maximum temperature derived from one second readings can be quite different to a maximum temperature derived from hourly readings, wind gusts based on one second readings will be significantly greater than gusts based on three second readings, and scalar averaging of wind direction generally produces meaningless results.

Documenting the algorithms used, and all changes to those algorithms, is necessary for future users of the data.

It should be noted that many AWS manufacturers are unaware of the subtleties involved with the algorithms and with the meaning of the meteorological variables derived.

Bureau Specification A2669 details the algorithms used in the Bureau's AWSs. These algorithms are compatible with those recommended by the WMO, and as used by other National Meteorological Services.

The Bureau's AWS Co-ordinator, the Instrument Engineering Section and the Regional Instrument Centre are available to provide advice on processing algorithms.

MAINTENANCE

AWS should be chosen for their ease of maintenance.

Maintenance should be able to be performed on an AWS without affecting the climatological record. For example, the temperature and humidity sensors should be able to be disabled before the instrument shelter is washed.

Many of the cheaper AWS cannot be adjusted in the field and need to be returned to the manufacturer for periodic calibration. In addition, many of these AWS lack robustness and require frequent maintenance visits to replace electronics and/or sensors.

It is important to consider the lifetime costs of an AWS rather than simply the initial cost. Generally, the lower the initial cost, the higher the ongoing cost to maintain acceptable data. In the end, this may result in either a higher total cost or long periods with no useful data.

The Bureau's Engineering Maintenance Section (and the Regional Engineering Services Sections in each State) can provide advice regarding the inspection and maintenance of AWS.

Looks like there is quite a sound protocol surrounding the AWS, but like all these things that rely on automation, the algorithms drive the reports that the pilot hears when he/she "logs on" or "phones in" are the heart and soul of the system. GIGO [Garbage in garbage out!!]

More reading at: Bureau of Meteorology - Automatic Weather Stations

and the reason for existence:

The Bureau of Meteorology operates under the authority of the Meteorology Act 1955 and the Water Act 2007 which provide the legal basis for its activities, while its operation is continually assessed in accordance with the national need for climatic records, water information, scientific understanding of Australian weather and climate and effective service provision to the Australian community. The Bureau of Meteorology must also fulfill Australia's international obligations under the Convention of the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) and related international meteorological treaties and agreements.

[Up-into-the-air]

atsb and report quality

atsb and it's Act, Regs and second reading speeches.

TSI Act | Assistance to the Aviation Industry


The issue here is that the second reading speeches form "how" the Act will be undertaken.

Compare now and then.

[Kharon]

Of interest

Whilst the Hempel Coronial inquiry has not thus far made it a Senate matter, there are some extraordinary features which maybe germane to the passing strange events we have been discussing recently. Sarcs – Hempel - post is worth a read within context of the Senate inquiry.

Perhaps Mr James and his associates could consider Pg 6-38 of Enforcement manual (sorry no link) as applicable to his situation and the treatment received. There are a couple of other pilots similarly treated who are; the FOI discovery should be of interest.

[Sarcs]

Here you go Kharon here's the link:http://www.casa.gov.au/enf/009r006.pdf

Oh and here's a slightly edited version of pg 6-38 and the referred to paragraph 3.4:

6.14.2 Suspension for Purposes of Examination – CAR 265
Before taking any action to suspend a licence or authority for the purposes of an examination under CAR 265 (1), the referring manager must ensure that they have taken part in the CEP (see Chapter 3 at 3.4). When, as a result of the CEP a decision is made to recommend this action to the delegate then the flowchart Coordinated Enforcement Process G should be followed and the SFR (form 316) with attached AAC (form 886). The manager must also ensure that the holder of the licence or authority has been, or will be, (co-incidental with the suspension) validly required to undergo an examination under regulation 33 or 5.38. (This requirement may be included in the CAR 265 notice.)

It is important that the referring manager discuss with the ALC all aspects of the AOC Holder’s behaviour that was/is of concern to the referring manager. Other issues, in addition to serious competency issues, may need to be included in the suspension notice, for example areas where CASA is still uncertain or unclear whether competency exists.


6.14.2.1 Duration of Suspension

Any suspension under CAR 265 (1) remains in force until such time as the examination is completed and the results are known. Where the result of an examination does not show any ground on which licence or authority may be varied, suspended or cancelled, then the delegate must immediately terminate the suspension of the aviation permission and notify the holder of the document in writing that the suspension has been terminated.

If, after the results of an examination are known, the delegate decides that there are grounds for the variation, suspension or cancellation of the licence or authority, this action must be taken under CAR 269. The licence or authority remains suspended during the period allowed in the SCN to respond.
See generally sections 6.5-6.8 of this Chapter and the SFR (form 316) and AAC (form 886).


6.14.2.2 Preparation and Issue of Suspension Notices

The procedure for the preparation of suspension notices (form 311) under CAR 265 is much the same as for the preparation of SCN (see section 6.9 above). A decision to suspend a licence or authority under CAR 265 is reviewable by the AAT and the suspension notice must advise the holder of this right of review. Such a decision is not subject to the automatic stay provisions in section 31A of the Act as no show cause is required before the decision is made - see sample form 311.

Pg 3-2 of Enforcement Manual:


3.4 Initial Investigation

Where information is received by the operational/technical area an initial investigation may be carried out by the operational/technical staff prior to the CEP being initiated. (See flowchart – Coordinated Enforcement Process A).

Managers in operational and technical areas need to consult with their team members on receipt of information and initial investigation to determine whether the matter can be addressed by using other means such as RCAs and ASRs or whether enforcement may be necessary. A record should be kept of such meetings and preliminary decisions.

There may also be a need for further investigation to be carried out by operational/technical personnel after the CEP has been initiated. As part of the CEP it may also become apparent that the specialised skills of a Part lllA investigator should be used.

Like Dom James and anyone else who has been issued or will potentially be issued (maybe some of the ex-Barrier pilots should take note of this!) with a suspension notice under r265, reading this to checklist all the legal crossing of "t"s and dotting of "i"s that is required of FF could well be in your best interest!

[Sarcs]

It would appear the inquiry reporting date has again been extended and further answers to written QONs from the 15/02/2013 hearing have finally been released, here's one small sample from mimimi..Beaker that just makes you want to :

Questions in relation to previously in-camera documents

1. An email on 9 Feb 2010 appears to show that you were looking for a way to assist CASA with their early intervention with Mr James. Can you explain that please?

ATSB response:

The email exchange was in the context of a discussion about the complementary but distinct roles of CASA and the ATSB in maintaining aviation safety. The interest of the ATSB officer involved was in CASA’s concentrating on improvements to the regulatory and other guidance for the future safety of such flights as the Norfolk Island one.

He was of the view that this would be the most effective way for CASA to address the issues

arising from the investigation. My response was to advise him that CASA’s assessment of what was required was now focussing on compliance-related interventions, rather than changes to the regulatory framework.

Need I say more...between the Hoodoo Voodoo doc's answers and Beaker's answers it is a toss up to who is the "King of spin!"

Aviation Accident Investigations

Information about the Inquiry

On 13 September 2012 the Senate referred the following matter to the Senate Standing Committees on Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport for inquiry and report.
Submissions should be received by 12 October 2012. The reporting date is 29 November 2012. On 14 March 2013,the Senate granted an extension of time for reporting until 30 April 2013.

As an aside Oleo you'll pleased to know that the good Senators appear to be lining up the pineapples, from Hansard 14/03/2013:

Senator KROGER (Victoria—Chief Opposition Whip in the Senate) (12:05): At the request of Senator Heffernan, I move:
That the time for the presentation of reports of the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee be extended as follows:
(a) aviation accident investigation—to 30 April 2013;
(b) fresh pineapple imports—to 24 June 2013;
(c) New Zealand potatoes import risk analysis—24 June 2013; and
(d) fresh ginger import risk analysis—to 24 June 2013.
Question agreed to.

Although not sure where the spuds and gingers fit in??

[halfmanhalfbiscuit]

Pel Air inquiry carries on. I'm guessing they have done all hearings now?

Love the QON all ills of society again. Delusional, multiple personalities or simply mad? But the senators are listening.

I believe Shane Urqhuart put in his submission that casa brands everyone who has an issue mad. Unfortunately Pel Air, Hempel and Barrier are starting to show that might not be the case and there is more than a grain of truth in the criticism!

halftautologicalhalfteapot

[Sunfish]

I offer the following prose from an American who was concerned at the "group think" that controlled American foreign policy some years ago. I wonder if it is relevent to "the good people" of CASA and ATSB FWIW?

Drinking the Kool-Aid