Senate Inquiry, Hearing Program 4th Nov 2011
3 sleeps, beyond (400k) and ironies!
Congrats on passing 400k…top effort!
Kharon:
Fascinating tale that “K”! Not that I’m into conspiracies but after reading that and comparing to the Lebanese ‘Final Report’, there are a number of anomalies that make you think that the Ethiopians probably have some justification for being a bit suss!
By the way here is the Ethiopian response to Final Report Draft (Appendix Z): http://www.lebcaa.com/pdfs/App%20Z.pdf
Oh well at least they raised the CVR/FDR! The different interpretations of the CVR transcript and the FDR data are interesting, maybe that’s what the ATSB were trying to avoid by not raising NGA’s blackbox i.e. “what we don’t know won’t hurt us”?
Kharon:
The rest of the report is out there in cyber space if you wish to draw the parallels; or, enjoy a large dose of irony to start the week.
By the way here is the Ethiopian response to Final Report Draft (Appendix Z): http://www.lebcaa.com/pdfs/App%20Z.pdf
Oh well at least they raised the CVR/FDR! The different interpretations of the CVR transcript and the FDR data are interesting, maybe that’s what the ATSB were trying to avoid by not raising NGA’s blackbox i.e. “what we don’t know won’t hurt us”?
Last edited by Sarcs; 20th May 2013 at 06:12.
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Avoidance of the Truth
The cost of avoiding the truth in a humane way has had such a negative effect on those involved in any incident where the truth is hidden. I sit here with pain, no money in my pocket and absolute despair with the whole disgusting issue of NGA.
Am I being punished for going to work one night and going through trauma and the aftermath. I believe the answer is yes.
What a a filthy system.
I am & others being punished for doing our jobs...yes. I truly hope the Senate has the human element regarding this and include it in their findings.
Sometimes you just have had enough of the B.S, which I have.
Am I being punished for going to work one night and going through trauma and the aftermath. I believe the answer is yes.
What a a filthy system.
I am & others being punished for doing our jobs...yes. I truly hope the Senate has the human element regarding this and include it in their findings.
Sometimes you just have had enough of the B.S, which I have.
Last edited by Ziggychick; 20th May 2013 at 09:31. Reason: Spellings
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Pythagoras was quiet unfair on
boys and girls-but what's the use?
People still tell me there is a square on the Hypotenuse.
Trust the hypotenuse; it's fine;
It won't have snakes or bears on;
But nor, since it's just a line, will it have squares on.
And yet when I said this at school,
I had to spend my youth
In being called all sorts of fool
For speaking the truth.
Pythagoras, of Samian birth, studied phylosophy;
An ass, as he thought, returned to earth
As you or me.
Metempsychosis- transmigrating-
Two frightful words to spell;
A frightful notion also, rating a padded cell.
Yet to this madman's tender cares
They gave me my adolescence,
Commanding to his silly squares
My acquiescence.
His followers were set on fire
Around five ten B.C.
A date in history to inspire
The likes of me.
My teachers lives have terminated;
So has Pythagoras's;
In case they've all been transmigrated
I'm kind to asses.
(apologies to Paul Griffin on Pythagoras 582-500 BC)
boys and girls-but what's the use?
People still tell me there is a square on the Hypotenuse.
Trust the hypotenuse; it's fine;
It won't have snakes or bears on;
But nor, since it's just a line, will it have squares on.
And yet when I said this at school,
I had to spend my youth
In being called all sorts of fool
For speaking the truth.
Pythagoras, of Samian birth, studied phylosophy;
An ass, as he thought, returned to earth
As you or me.
Metempsychosis- transmigrating-
Two frightful words to spell;
A frightful notion also, rating a padded cell.
Yet to this madman's tender cares
They gave me my adolescence,
Commanding to his silly squares
My acquiescence.
His followers were set on fire
Around five ten B.C.
A date in history to inspire
The likes of me.
My teachers lives have terminated;
So has Pythagoras's;
In case they've all been transmigrated
I'm kind to asses.
(apologies to Paul Griffin on Pythagoras 582-500 BC)
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Red Flag for FONC?
Aargh FONC, your enthusiasm to learn and somewhat naivety of the topic at hand is somewhat 'cute', however it is indeed a curious matter that you take up interest in posting about this incident so late in the day? Long time lurker you mentioned, yet you are asking if Ziggy was the co-pilot? Hmmmm, me smells the signature of a Blackhand plying his trade?
In the interests of fairness as well as the 'given the benefit of the doubt' principle one will assume you are indeed just one of the Screaming Skulls 'ills of society' with an interest in aviation matters Either way it is a democratic society and each and every persons opinion is allowed, after all this is the people's thread, closely, fairly and robustly monitored by the 'keepers of all things posted', the MODS.
On the other hand an appearance this late in the game in this thread as a cadet Ppruner could indicate something more sinister. Could this be another covert attempt by our friend Blackie to edge back into the thread? A soft and endearing approach that will be followed by an all out attack once probation ends?
Or is FONC perhaps a member of FF's elite and trying to gently yet subtly divert attention from the big picture by creating sidetrack conversation and questions? For someone who appears interested in this subject FONC doesn't appear to know some of the basics in relation to the accident under discussion?
Perhaps I am just being suspicious, something this industry tends to do to you after a while
Anyway, as halfmanhalfreportdue pointed out, only a sleep or two remains until the report is released. Lets pray for wisdom, sense and reason and a safety based outcome from whatever the Senators report contains. We will either be turning over to a new unmolested chapter in aviation or we will be waking up again to Sonny and Cher playing on the radio.
In the interests of fairness as well as the 'given the benefit of the doubt' principle one will assume you are indeed just one of the Screaming Skulls 'ills of society' with an interest in aviation matters
Either way it is a democratic society and each and every persons opinion is allowed, after all this is the people's thread, closely, fairly and robustly monitored by the 'keepers of all things posted', the MODS.On the other hand an appearance this late in the game in this thread as a cadet Ppruner could indicate something more sinister. Could this be another covert attempt by our friend Blackie to edge back into the thread? A soft and endearing approach that will be followed by an all out attack once probation ends?
Or is FONC perhaps a member of FF's elite and trying to gently yet subtly divert attention from the big picture by creating sidetrack conversation and questions? For someone who appears interested in this subject FONC doesn't appear to know some of the basics in relation to the accident under discussion?
Perhaps I am just being suspicious, something this industry tends to do to you after a while
Anyway, as halfmanhalfreportdue pointed out, only a sleep or two remains until the report is released. Lets pray for wisdom, sense and reason and a safety based outcome from whatever the Senators report contains. We will either be turning over to a new unmolested chapter in aviation or we will be waking up again to Sonny and Cher playing on the radio.
Last edited by my oleo is extended; 20th May 2013 at 16:35.
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Indeed this thread has covered both inquiries. The issues continue!
I'm wondering if there will be cheering within the walls of FF later in the week or whether it will be the turn of 'the ills of society'.
Now, for those that would like to be a fly on the wall at FF when the report comes out there is a seminar in Melbourne Thursday and Friday possibility of seeing some frantic phone calls. Oh, dress code is casual but no hoodies.
Oleo, will they anoint the new EM of operations? (My spell check changed anoint to annoy!)
I'm wondering if there will be cheering within the walls of FF later in the week or whether it will be the turn of 'the ills of society'.
Now, for those that would like to be a fly on the wall at FF when the report comes out there is a seminar in Melbourne Thursday and Friday possibility of seeing some frantic phone calls. Oh, dress code is casual but no hoodies.
Oleo, will they anoint the new EM of operations? (My spell check changed anoint to annoy!)
Last edited by halfmanhalfbiscuit; 20th May 2013 at 16:56.
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Epiphany – now!.
Sarcs – the CVR/FDR differences are intriguing, but at least they were there. Another parallel that caught my eye was the 'missing' seconds in transcript. Was it Xenophon who drew the parallel between Australia and Lebanon??? – it was a while back. But the Ethiopian tale just goes to show how very important it is to be able to rely legally, operationally, financially and politically on a report from the national safety bureau.
If the Senate achieves nothing else – we cannot tolerate and must no longer accept reports like Pel Air. The entire episode must be re examined; then they can start on the travesty which is Canely Vale. Make no mistake about it, if you thought the NLK report was disgusting – wait until the Coroner gets to Andy Wilson and Cathy Shepherd and tries to sort the wheat from the chaff against the ATSB report and CASA fairy stories. Anyone with a shred of decency (or common sense) would withdraw the Canley Vale epistle before the spotlight is, for a second time, firmly on a group of people who are now exposed in dirty underwear, on stage, in full public view. Norfolk may be considered the allegro movement of our little symphony – not the finale.
If the Senate achieves nothing else – we cannot tolerate and must no longer accept reports like Pel Air. The entire episode must be re examined; then they can start on the travesty which is Canely Vale. Make no mistake about it, if you thought the NLK report was disgusting – wait until the Coroner gets to Andy Wilson and Cathy Shepherd and tries to sort the wheat from the chaff against the ATSB report and CASA fairy stories. Anyone with a shred of decency (or common sense) would withdraw the Canley Vale epistle before the spotlight is, for a second time, firmly on a group of people who are now exposed in dirty underwear, on stage, in full public view. Norfolk may be considered the allegro movement of our little symphony – not the finale.
An epiphany (from the ancient Greek ἐπιφάνεια, epiphaneia, "manifestation, striking appearance") is an experience of sudden and striking realization. Generally the term is used to describe scientific breakthrough, religious or philosophical discoveries, but it can apply in any situation in which an enlightening realization allows a problem or situation to be understood from a new and deeper perspective.
Last edited by Kharon; 20th May 2013 at 20:00. Reason: Awaiting a second coffee, for inspiration. Minnie!!
New 'pure as the driven' air charter company to be launched post release of senate findings. Form an orderly queue please gents if you wish to subscribe or request the prospectus to peruse. New enterprise is called, nominally -
AIR EPIPHANY
AIR APPARENT?
AIR OF INNOCENCE?
FERNANDO?
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Zed is for Ziggy
It may be confusing to you FONC and that I can understand as there are so many postings.
I am not the co-pilot, I have not spoken to or heard from her since the ditching. My co-pilot has no idea of what I have been through. I respect her choice of quietness regarding this matter.
I was the one sitting in the aircraft as a flight nurse, in the back seat where the aircraft broke in two. I have sustained injuries that are debilitating with a poor a prognosis.
I don't know who you are. But know this. The management of this incident has been very disturbing and has caused incredible pain to all involved.
The leaders of both the ATSB and CASA have a lot to answer for. Especially the alleged lies of collision. We must not forget the incompetence's of
Pel-Air, they too have a lot to explain.
I can only take so much of this crap. The effect of the crash, injuries and psychological issues, loss of physical freedom and loss of my career has almost destroyed me. Very close. They are trying to break me and believe me, they are close to their goal. How can people in positions such as McCormick, Dolan and Sharpe be such cold, uncaring human beings? Ego!
So, FONC what do you think now?
I am not the co-pilot, I have not spoken to or heard from her since the ditching. My co-pilot has no idea of what I have been through. I respect her choice of quietness regarding this matter.
I was the one sitting in the aircraft as a flight nurse, in the back seat where the aircraft broke in two. I have sustained injuries that are debilitating with a poor a prognosis.
I don't know who you are. But know this. The management of this incident has been very disturbing and has caused incredible pain to all involved.
The leaders of both the ATSB and CASA have a lot to answer for. Especially the alleged lies of collision. We must not forget the incompetence's of
Pel-Air, they too have a lot to explain.
I can only take so much of this crap. The effect of the crash, injuries and psychological issues, loss of physical freedom and loss of my career has almost destroyed me. Very close. They are trying to break me and believe me, they are close to their goal. How can people in positions such as McCormick, Dolan and Sharpe be such cold, uncaring human beings? Ego!
So, FONC what do you think now?
Last edited by Ziggychick; 20th May 2013 at 23:56.
as you have found, here there be gropings for an understanding, certainly compassion, sympathy and among those who have bent a non judgemental ear,a hope that there will soon be outcomes that enable pain and sufferingto be relegated to the past. Ruling it off, drawing a line, as they say.
not nit picking, but is this correct?
not nit picking, but is this correct?
Especially the alleged lies of collision.
Last edited by Fantome; 21st May 2013 at 00:14.
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Hi Ziggy
You are indeed a courageous woman, my cousin worked at pelair when Zoe was there, and has said that she did give a statement to the accident investigator.
I was rather hoping you were Zoe, to see what happened in the cockpit.
You need closure on this part of your life, I pray that the senate can give you this.
God Bless
FoNC
You are indeed a courageous woman, my cousin worked at pelair when Zoe was there, and has said that she did give a statement to the accident investigator.
I was rather hoping you were Zoe, to see what happened in the cockpit.
You need closure on this part of your life, I pray that the senate can give you this.
God Bless
FoNC
Ziggy "reality check" and that man 'blackie'!
FONC:
FONC sort of valid point that you make…however since the 4 corners program it is my guesstimate (and their would be others on here who’d be able to have a better guess) that there have been over 360K views, 70 pages and over 1400 posts added since that time. By anyone’s measure they are fairly impressive stats for what was supposed to be a insignificant, straight forward (the pilot did it!), “nothing to see here” Senate Inquiry…
If nothing else comes of all this what those stats signify is we now have a vastly more edumicated ‘ills of society’ group…that hopefully will feel more emboldened next time they’re feeling intimidated by the bully boy on the block!
Oleo:
Oleo your cynicism is probably well justified, however you must be getting soft in your latter years…“In the interests of fairness as well as the 'given the benefit of the doubt' principle one will assume you are indeed just one of the Screaming Skulls 'ills of society' with an interest in aviation matters. Either way it is a democratic society and each and every persons opinion is allowed, after all this is the people's thread, closely, fairly and robustly monitored by the 'keepers of all things posted', the MODS…” so unlike an extended oleo more like a fully compressed oleo!!
Whether FONC is a lurker, troll, CAsAsexual or another blackie/Owen Meaney (there was a couple more but I forget now??) persona I guess only time will tell, either way it’s all too little, too late as the horse has well and truly bolted.
Speaking of blackie I came across a short, sharp, sarcastic, diatribe of his not long after he was relegated to the backbenches, it was a comment on one of Sandilands articles. Anyway for those who like a laugh here it is:
What was that Cyndi Lauper song...hmm oh yes ‘True Colours’, well blackie showed his true colours in that comment but the song is perhaps much more appropriate for ziggy??
[YOUTUBE]Cyndi Lauper - True Colors - YouTube
"Lyrics link"
I know..I know a bit melancholy
....but ziggy keep your chin up just two more sleeps!
This topic started in Nov 2011, while the enquiry into Aviation accident and other matters began in late 2012, the 400k views includes both??
If nothing else comes of all this what those stats signify is we now have a vastly more edumicated ‘ills of society’ group…that hopefully will feel more emboldened next time they’re feeling intimidated by the bully boy on the block!
Oleo:
Aargh FONC, your enthusiasm to learn and somewhat naivety of the topic at hand is somewhat 'cute', however it is indeed a curious matter that you take up interest in posting about this incident so late in the day? Long time lurker you mentioned, yet you are asking if Ziggy was the co-pilot? Hmmmm, me smells the signature of a Blackhand plying his trade?
Whether FONC is a lurker, troll, CAsAsexual or another blackie/Owen Meaney (there was a couple more but I forget now??) persona I guess only time will tell, either way it’s all too little, too late as the horse has well and truly bolted.
Speaking of blackie I came across a short, sharp, sarcastic, diatribe of his not long after he was relegated to the backbenches, it was a comment on one of Sandilands articles. Anyway for those who like a laugh here it is:
· Black Hand
Posted February 22, 2013 at 4:43 pm |Permalink
Really well done.
Latest message from my FOI after a 3 hour meeting is that aerial work aoc and Ops manual are now for all intents being treated like Charter.Must have Fatigue managemant plan, must have fuel management plan, reference to flight manual no longer acceptable. Proving flight for new type single engine being placed on AOC. APPROVAL HAS BLOWN OUT TO SIX MONTHS. Previously accepted Ops Manual now requires complete rewrite.
Thanks Ben, Xenophon and the rest.
cHEERS
Posted February 22, 2013 at 4:43 pm |Permalink
Really well done.
Latest message from my FOI after a 3 hour meeting is that aerial work aoc and Ops manual are now for all intents being treated like Charter.Must have Fatigue managemant plan, must have fuel management plan, reference to flight manual no longer acceptable. Proving flight for new type single engine being placed on AOC. APPROVAL HAS BLOWN OUT TO SIX MONTHS. Previously accepted Ops Manual now requires complete rewrite.
Thanks Ben, Xenophon and the rest.
cHEERS
[YOUTUBE]Cyndi Lauper - True Colors - YouTube
"Lyrics link"
I know..I know a bit melancholy
....but ziggy keep your chin up just two more sleeps!
Last edited by Sarcs; 21st May 2013 at 01:09.
All others sorry for intruding on a private thread, will leave you with it.
Either way it is a democratic society and each and every persons opinion
is allowed, after all this is the people's thread, closely, fairly and robustly
monitored by the 'keepers of all things posted', the MODS…”
is allowed, after all this is the people's thread, closely, fairly and robustly
monitored by the 'keepers of all things posted', the MODS…”
This was posted by the same person who wrote this;
Naughty Blackie!!
FONC can I suggest that you keep posting your questions.
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Hi LookLeft
Thanks, but if I want to be made out to be an idiot I would have stayed married.
I hope Ziggy is able to come to terms with this trauma in her life and do wish her well.
FONC
Thanks, but if I want to be made out to be an idiot I would have stayed married.
I hope Ziggy is able to come to terms with this trauma in her life and do wish her well.
FONC
Given the content of some of the posts in the past few years on this thread, I can assure you that you are not the idiot.
Last edited by Lookleft; 21st May 2013 at 23:00. Reason: Noticed attack dogs silent on how FONC was treated by those demanding truth,honesty and fairness from others
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A positive outcome.
A refreshing article published through Aviation International News in the April edition. It is short, succinct and a worthy, sensible proactive goal for a professional aviation safety body
“NTSB seeks to improve GA Safety”
Read on-
P17 a.k.a. Kaydet.
“NTSB seeks to improve GA Safety”
“Confronted with years of stubborn and static accident statistics for general aviation operations, the NTSB is taking more aggressive actions in an attempt to reduce the number of crashes. Last month, the independent safety agency issued five GA Safety Alerts, to be followed later this spring by a series of videos.
Read on-
P17 a.k.a. Kaydet.
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An Epiphany? a breath of fresh air? then an “If Only” moment.
Very interesting read PAIN.
I couldn’t help musing over the difference between our reactive “Legislate, castigate, castrate” approach in Australia compared with their proactive “ Educate and mentor” approach over there.
I cannot for the life of me understand why our regulator seems hell bent on destroying the industry that they rely on for their very existence, what benefit does Australia gain? Other than empty skies.
The next raft of legislation, designed to make it much easier for us to gain a criminal record, I have been told will put upwards of $160 million in costs on an industry already at tipping point.
Meanwhile across the pond and in Asia their Aviation industries forge ahead with sound, workable, ICAO compliant regulations.
I couldn’t help musing over the difference between our reactive “Legislate, castigate, castrate” approach in Australia compared with their proactive “ Educate and mentor” approach over there.
I cannot for the life of me understand why our regulator seems hell bent on destroying the industry that they rely on for their very existence, what benefit does Australia gain? Other than empty skies.
The next raft of legislation, designed to make it much easier for us to gain a criminal record, I have been told will put upwards of $160 million in costs on an industry already at tipping point.
Meanwhile across the pond and in Asia their Aviation industries forge ahead with sound, workable, ICAO compliant regulations.
Last edited by thorn bird; 21st May 2013 at 07:57.