Senate Inquiry, Hearing Program 4th Nov 2011
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So true Kharon, the axiom of "never call an inquiry unless you already have the answer" rings true here.
This paradigm has existed from when Maximus Phallus called for an inquiry, in the Roman Senate, into the Spartacus incident
This paradigm has existed from when Maximus Phallus called for an inquiry, in the Roman Senate, into the Spartacus incident
So was the intention to not use confidential submissions made clear to us before we wasted our time? If not it would appear they are moving the goal posts to suit. I have considered forwarding a copy of an inquiry submission to the press in the past. They can do it properly of suffer trial by media 
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So, group submissions are treated as confidential at 1630 on the day submissions close. Can one be given the opportunity to have extended the submission date with a request so those submissions can be put in individually?
This is an abuse of due process if the rules are changed at the vinegar stroke.
You can take pleasure in now knowing for sure someone has something to hide and will stop at nothing to keep it hidden.
You've hit a nerve people.
This is an abuse of due process if the rules are changed at the vinegar stroke.
You can take pleasure in now knowing for sure someone has something to hide and will stop at nothing to keep it hidden.
You've hit a nerve people.
Here's an idea how about a Petition submission, see here...Senate Petitions – Parliament of Australia ...that outlines submitters disapproval to this apparent gagging tactic of contentious submissions. Which is a breach of the 'freedom of speech' civil liberty...hmm just an idea!
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Has anybody a list of those sitting at this particular Senate Estimates?
It may be that each individual submission should be sent to all sitting members with a request to consider the submissions openly given the last minute rule change which is an abuse of due process. The worst can be a refusal and the matter heard in camera.
In this matter ignorance is an excuse if nobody was told the rules of the game until COB after submissions closed.
I never thought Australia would descend into or condone this sort of corruption.
It may be that each individual submission should be sent to all sitting members with a request to consider the submissions openly given the last minute rule change which is an abuse of due process. The worst can be a refusal and the matter heard in camera.
In this matter ignorance is an excuse if nobody was told the rules of the game until COB after submissions closed.
I never thought Australia would descend into or condone this sort of corruption.
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Got to laugh.
BH # 449 - Maximus Phallus.
Bloody Spartacus! Free the slaves from Roman tyranny; and try to persuade the Senate to back him. - Bwwaww Hawww Haww. Dream on, no votes in freedom and we can't upset the trough arrangements, now can we?. I ask you seriously, I mean what would the world come to then, eh?.
Last edited by Kharon; 12th Oct 2012 at 23:23. Reason: Didn't think I'd smile all day - Cheers Blackie.
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They may be wise to you.
Seagoon: At last, by the light from a passing glue factory, I saw that Eccles was only wearing one boot.Eccles: Ooh, well I've only got one boot.Seagoon: I know, but why are you wearing it on your head?Eccles: Why? Why? It fits that's why! What a silly question.Seagoon: Let me see that boot... hmm, size 19... what size head have you got?Eccles: Size 19.Seagoon: Curse... the man's defence was perfect!
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TICK TOCK TICK TOCK A change of rules, what a crock!
So, group submissions are treated as confidential at 1630 on the day
submissions close. Can one be given the opportunity to have extended the
submission date with a request so those submissions can be put in individually?
This is an abuse of due process if the rules are changed at
the vinegar stroke. You can take pleasure in now knowing for sure someone
has something to hide and will stop at nothing to keep it hidden.
You've hit a nerve people.
submissions close. Can one be given the opportunity to have extended the
submission date with a request so those submissions can be put in individually?
This is an abuse of due process if the rules are changed at
the vinegar stroke. You can take pleasure in now knowing for sure someone
has something to hide and will stop at nothing to keep it hidden.
You've hit a nerve people.
These buffoons can polish the turd, change the game rules and pull out every trick conatined in the voodoo handbook but it wont "cut off the smoking hole at the pass", not at all. The Stasi are winning, but only for now.
Democaracy anybody?
I was surprised that this fact didn't come to light at 1659 PM Friday rather than at 1630PM Friday? Change of tact?
TICK TOCK
Last edited by gobbledock; 13th Oct 2012 at 14:02.
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Industry proposal #362436.
(Consultation is available, please see attached form; conditions apply).
1) That a suitably large paddock fenced to OH &S standards be leased.
2) That a Round up of all 'Crats be conducted and the whole mob yarded (in said paddock).
3) That the yarded 'crats be suitably equipped with (i) a Yellow Safety jacket and (ii) a large orange flag with the word "Safety" printed on it (in really big letters).
4) That a pensioner be hired to ride a push bike around the enclosure perimeter twice a day.
Operational overview) - Every time the pensioner appears, the intent is that the yarded ones will stand, raise their flags, wave vigorously whilst robustly chanting "safety before profit". Thus, when the 'ride around' is complete, the yarded ones can return to limelight basking, troughing and perusing the provided scatology literature.
Operational aim) - To yard the silly buggers, while humanely providing useful employment and shelter (UN policy) which will then allow the industry to get on and sort out the bloody mess left behind.
End view) - Any dopey politician who even looks like opening its trap may be arbitrarily yarded for the duration of the clean up: N.B. they must provide their own flags; not made of money you know.
All those in favour say Aye.
1) That a suitably large paddock fenced to OH &S standards be leased.
2) That a Round up of all 'Crats be conducted and the whole mob yarded (in said paddock).
3) That the yarded 'crats be suitably equipped with (i) a Yellow Safety jacket and (ii) a large orange flag with the word "Safety" printed on it (in really big letters).
4) That a pensioner be hired to ride a push bike around the enclosure perimeter twice a day.
Operational overview) - Every time the pensioner appears, the intent is that the yarded ones will stand, raise their flags, wave vigorously whilst robustly chanting "safety before profit". Thus, when the 'ride around' is complete, the yarded ones can return to limelight basking, troughing and perusing the provided scatology literature.
Operational aim) - To yard the silly buggers, while humanely providing useful employment and shelter (UN policy) which will then allow the industry to get on and sort out the bloody mess left behind.
End view) - Any dopey politician who even looks like opening its trap may be arbitrarily yarded for the duration of the clean up: N.B. they must provide their own flags; not made of money you know.
All those in favour say Aye.
Last edited by Kharon; 13th Oct 2012 at 21:12. Reason: No, no more coffee, thank you Minnie.
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Mr Dakacrat ATFQ?
Although not technically accepted as a QON at the last Senate Estimates (sort of a sneaky 'crat' way of ducking the question)...
....you would think it perhaps prudent to attempt to answer the question.
Given it is 5 months hence and the seriousness of the topic Mr Mrdak could at least enlighten the Senator, the victims families, industry stakeholders and taxpayers generally what his cogitations, deliberations, permutations are.
With unlimited tax payer funded resources, expertise etc all at his fingertips surely Mr Mrdak it isn't too much to ask for an answer to the bloody question?
Hmm maybe he will surprise us all and table an answer document this Tuesday...but I wouldn't want to bet my left on it!
Senator FAWCETT: Would it be appropriate to have—a sunset clause is not quite the right phrase—a due date that if an action is recommended and accepted by a regulatory body, in this case CASA, the coroner should actually be putting a date on that and CASA must implement by a certain date or report back, whether it is to the minister or to the court or to the coroner, why that action has not actually occurred?
Mr Dolan: I think I will limit myself to comment that that is the way we try to do it. We have a requirement that in 90 days, if we have made a recommendation, there is a response to it. We will track a recommendation until we are satisfied it is complete or until we have concluded that there is no likelihood that the action is going to be taken.
Senator FAWCETT: Mr Mrdak, as secretary of the relevant department, how would you propose to engage with the coroners to make sure that we, as a nation, close this loophole to make our air environment safer?
Mr Mrdak: I think Mr Dolan has indicated the relationship with coroners is on a much better footing than it has been ever before. I think the work of the ATSB has led that. I think it then becomes a matter of addressing the relationship between the safety regulators and security regulators, as necessary, with the coroners. It is probably one I would take on notice and give a bit of thought to, if you do not mind.
Senator FAWCETT: You do not accept that your department and you, as secretary, have a duty of care and an oversight to make sure that two agencies who work for you do actually complement their activities for the outcome that benefits the aviation community?
Mr Mrdak: We certainly do ensure that agencies are working together. That is certainly occurring. You have asked me the more detailed question about coroners and relationships with the agencies. I will have a bit of a think about that, if that is okay.
Senator FAWCETT: Thank you.
Mr Dolan: I think I will limit myself to comment that that is the way we try to do it. We have a requirement that in 90 days, if we have made a recommendation, there is a response to it. We will track a recommendation until we are satisfied it is complete or until we have concluded that there is no likelihood that the action is going to be taken.
Senator FAWCETT: Mr Mrdak, as secretary of the relevant department, how would you propose to engage with the coroners to make sure that we, as a nation, close this loophole to make our air environment safer?
Mr Mrdak: I think Mr Dolan has indicated the relationship with coroners is on a much better footing than it has been ever before. I think the work of the ATSB has led that. I think it then becomes a matter of addressing the relationship between the safety regulators and security regulators, as necessary, with the coroners. It is probably one I would take on notice and give a bit of thought to, if you do not mind.
Senator FAWCETT: You do not accept that your department and you, as secretary, have a duty of care and an oversight to make sure that two agencies who work for you do actually complement their activities for the outcome that benefits the aviation community?
Mr Mrdak: We certainly do ensure that agencies are working together. That is certainly occurring. You have asked me the more detailed question about coroners and relationships with the agencies. I will have a bit of a think about that, if that is okay.
Senator FAWCETT: Thank you.
Given it is 5 months hence and the seriousness of the topic Mr Mrdak could at least enlighten the Senator, the victims families, industry stakeholders and taxpayers generally what his cogitations, deliberations, permutations are.
With unlimited tax payer funded resources, expertise etc all at his fingertips surely Mr Mrdak it isn't too much to ask for an answer to the bloody question?
Hmm maybe he will surprise us all and table an answer document this Tuesday...but I wouldn't want to bet my left on it!
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Mr Mrdak: We certainly do ensure that agencies are working together. That is certainly occurring.
Nothing has changed since Lockhart River, except the carefully managed improvement of turd polishing, (now a fine arts course).
Last edited by Kharon; 14th Oct 2012 at 20:24.
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"Lose Hope all ye who enter here"
We are well and truely into the "Rule of the regulator"
They've nobbled the ATSB
They've nobbled the coroners court
Now they've nobbled the good senators
We have regulation for profit!!! and directors bonuses of course.
For god's sake take SAFETY out of the name!!
We are well and truely into the "Rule of the regulator"
They've nobbled the ATSB
They've nobbled the coroners court
Now they've nobbled the good senators
We have regulation for profit!!! and directors bonuses of course.
For god's sake take SAFETY out of the name!!
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Tomorrow!.
About 1400 EST tomorrow, marks the end of an era. It will 'quietly' happen in the Senate; and, your comments on this subject have made it happen. Brava Ppruners, well done!, well done indeed
I will not bang on about the sad state this industry is in, or the governmental agencies which have; in no small way, contributed to it's near demise. My thoughts, hopes and care for an industry I love, have been shared with some great folk here; ad infinitum; et tedium (and probably, ad nauseam).
My hope is that just for a short while, we can all stick together and rid ourselves of the invidious, often incestuous, expensive, non productive parasite on this industry, which has become our Civil Aviation Safety Authority.
Tomorrow is a start, the 22nd gives a slim (60/40 against) chance – the rest boys and girls; is really - up to you.
Selah – sleep well (if you can).
PS, the old man says Cheers (then rasps "about bloody time"): Kilkenny rules. OK).
Now, with the indulgence of T28 –
Macbeth:
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
I will not bang on about the sad state this industry is in, or the governmental agencies which have; in no small way, contributed to it's near demise. My thoughts, hopes and care for an industry I love, have been shared with some great folk here; ad infinitum; et tedium (and probably, ad nauseam).
My hope is that just for a short while, we can all stick together and rid ourselves of the invidious, often incestuous, expensive, non productive parasite on this industry, which has become our Civil Aviation Safety Authority.
Tomorrow is a start, the 22nd gives a slim (60/40 against) chance – the rest boys and girls; is really - up to you.
Selah – sleep well (if you can).
PS, the old man says Cheers (then rasps "about bloody time"): Kilkenny rules. OK).
Now, with the indulgence of T28 –
Macbeth:
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
Last edited by Kharon; 15th Oct 2012 at 10:04.
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Ministerial debrief?
VOTE 1 SENATOR X For Minister of Infrastructure!
Senator X Minister of Infrastructure!
Senator X Minister of Infrastructure!