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Senate Inquiry, Hearing Program 4th Nov 2011

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Senate Inquiry, Hearing Program 4th Nov 2011

Old 5th Feb 2012, 23:45
  #281 (permalink)  
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Joyce first lie..... overstating of pilot "salaries". In my case by close to $40,000 p.a.
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Old 5th Feb 2012, 23:53
  #282 (permalink)  
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Sunfish - I have run a company employing staff so I do get it.

The thing I have learnt is people pay for quality or perceived value.

QF has that in spades, but the incompetent (at everything other than cutting a deal for themselves) guys running the place simply do not understand or 'get' it.

So they are in a race to the bottom which is self destructive.

Avoid the QF sale act for self benefit is their only aim.

LCC school 101 is 'how do we charge more for tickets'. They had the answer in gold plate - they just don't get it.

The ultimate comment I can make is that over my dead body will any of my kids go to any 'management' class. Real ground up experience is what my kids will get. The current crop of wrote learned uni fools (the same school that gave us sub-prime) will get taken to the cleaners by anyone with 'real' experience.
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Old 5th Feb 2012, 23:57
  #283 (permalink)  

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Reported today (6Feb12)in the world revered NT News , Jetstar claims that if Sen Xenophon's push is successful, JQ will have to cancel services between CNS-DRW-SIN and vice versa, because paying crew Australian rates will make the route unviable.
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Old 6th Feb 2012, 00:46
  #284 (permalink)  
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Jetstar looks to pull Singa link | News | NT News | Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia | ntnews.com.au

Jetstar looks to pull Singa link

NT NEWS February 6th, 2012

DARWIN could lose a vital international air service, delivering another blow to the Territory's tourism industry.

Qantas-owned Jetstar is threatening to scrap its daily service between Singapore and Cairns, via Darwin, if legislation proposed by Independent South Australian Senator Nick Xenophon goes ahead.

The airline says the changes which would force it to pay foreign crews the same rates as Australian staff would make the route unviable.

The call comes after the Territory experienced massive drops in the number of international visitors.

Parks Australia statistics, released last month, showed visitor numbers to Uluru and Kakadu have decreased by about nine per cent in 2011.

The popular tourist attraction Uluru was visited by about 273,000 people and about 160,000 travelled to Kakadu.
Your Say

"Because our chief minister - if you can call him that - gives our tax payers money to the wrong airlines to operate from here. Notwithstanding, the disgraceful standard of service the visitors receive when they arrive. Well, in fact, there is no service. I have operated in the city centre for over 15 years and see or rather not see it everyday!"
[email protected] Beam

The Territory Government has poured millions into preserving and promoting the famous wilderness destinations.

Kakadu National Park is a World Heritage listed area that has been listed for its cultural and natural heritage and Kakadu is the largest terrestrial national park in Australia.

NT Tourism figures show the number of international visitors to the NT reached its lowest point in 10 years last year, contrary to the national trend.

Only 302,000 visitors came to the NT for the financial year 2010-11.

This was down 6.4 per cent from 323,000 during the previous financial year.

The Senate is holding a joint inquiry today into the legislation proposed by Senator Xenophon and supported by the Greens.

Qantas is to give evidence to the inquiry.

The airline said in a statement: "If the intent of the proposed amendments is to protect Australian jobs and encourage investment in the Australian economy, they fail."
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Old 6th Feb 2012, 00:47
  #285 (permalink)  
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If paying workers in Australia foreign wages rates is so important to the viability of this business, why dont they apply the same to the CEO's office?

Would seem like a good start if we are forced to live with what exists at the moment.
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Old 6th Feb 2012, 01:04
  #286 (permalink)  
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Have to give Joyce and Buchanan credit.

They stonewall questions beautifully.
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Old 6th Feb 2012, 01:16
  #287 (permalink)  
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Qantas boss warns senators over law change

Qantas boss warns senators over law change

Qantas boss Alan Joyce has warned a parliamentary hearing that proposed legislative changes are a major threat to the airline's future.

Independent senator Nick Xenophon has introduced draft laws that require Qantas to maintain its principal operation centre in Australia as well as the majority of its heavy maintenance of aircraft, flight operations and training.

Mr Joyce delivered a blunt message to senators when he appeared for the fourth time before an upper house inquiry hearing in Canberra on Monday: "We must adapt or die."

He described Senator Xenophon's legislation as "misguided".

"We have grave fears for the future of Qantas if these legislative proposals come into effect," he said.

The legislation would constitute "a major threat" to the airline's business, Australian jobs and to investment and growth.

Mr Joyce said Senator Xenophon's proposed amendments to the Qantas Sale Act went way beyond its original aim which was to limit majority ownership of the airline to Australian shareholders.

"It would strangle our capacity to run our business," he said.

Mr Joyce reminded senators that Qantas was a non-government business that answered to its shareholders.

He denied changes the airline was making to its operations, including offshoring some heavy maintenance and contracting cheaper overseas cabin crew for its budget arm Jetstar, flouted the spirit or intent of the Qantas Sale Act.

Mr Joyce said the legislative changes would not increase protection for Qantas, warning that they would have serious and unintended consequences for the airline.

"They would not make us more Australian," he said.

Senators were told Jetstar would face competitors who were enjoying a lower cost base overseas and were not restricted by government-imposed limitations.

Qantas was faced with the prospect that Jetstar could fail within the confines of the Qantas Sale Act or it could be sold to allow it to succeed outside the law, Mr Joyce said.

"If Australians want a truly competitive national carrier, this parliament cannot tie up Qantas in this way.

"You would be responsible for making Qantas less competitive just when we most need the freedom to compete."

Mr Joyce quoted the head of the federal transport department, Mike Mrdak, to back the airline's argument against the legislative changes.

Mr Mrdak had said the draft laws raised significant issues for the operations of all Australian airlines and their ability to compete internationally.

Mr Joyce said the liberalisation of the aviation sector had not led to new or sustained international air services by foreign carriers to regional centres.

"The fact is that the Qantas Group network remains critical to maintaining and growing those direct services," he said.

The Qantas boss defended paying foreign crew less than their Australian counterparts working on the same flight.

It was standard practice adopted by airlines all over the world, he said.

"Strangling our international business and forcing us to pay uncompetitive wages ... is no way to make us stronger, better or more Australian," he said.

Mr Joyce told senators they needed to be aware of global and national realities.

"We confront very serious global economic challenges in Europe and the United States," he said, citing warnings by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the World Bank (WB).

"We must adapt if we are to survive."
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Old 6th Feb 2012, 01:34
  #288 (permalink)  
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The reason tourists are down in the NT is nothing to do with Airline wages.....it is all to do with the high Aussie Dollar.

JQ just whinging?
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Old 6th Feb 2012, 01:39
  #289 (permalink)  
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I'm sure Virgin Australia will happily fill the void.
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Old 6th Feb 2012, 01:43
  #290 (permalink)  
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Joyce has about as much intention of selling JQ (who would buy it? The Chinese?) as I have as going on one of Sunfish's cruises (I would go nuts) a nice little threat Allen, but I think Xenophon has your measure, try something else, and you miserable bastard, stop putting Thai CC on domestic routes, so you can save a buck, Australian CC on Australian routes thanks. Eh Sunfish, seeing that the crews of these ships don't appear to do EP's or if they do they don't seem to matter, did you take your rubber ducky or what?
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Old 6th Feb 2012, 02:48
  #291 (permalink)  
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Once again, Joyce is stuck in the "single option" rut... we must keep ticket prices low to compete... and the only way to keep prices low is to reduce costs to the level of all the other international low cost carriers.

I'm still convinced that there's a market for a "premium carrier" ... at a "premium price".

However, with all the bean counters and marketeers in Qantas, obviously they have discovered otherwise.
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Old 6th Feb 2012, 06:15
  #292 (permalink)  
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Has anyone got a link to a recorded footage for those who worked this morning?
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Old 6th Feb 2012, 08:04
  #293 (permalink)  
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The bits that I saw, in between other "duties" around the house showed not much in answers. Why they good senators didn't just ask "Do overseas based cabin crew operate Australian domestic sectors?" Buchanans weaseling around answer of reduced rostering of multiple "tag" sectors dodged the answer beautifully but was accepted by Senator X.
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Old 6th Feb 2012, 08:14
  #294 (permalink)  
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I have one but have no clue how to post it.

Make sure you have your hankies at the ready, I got fed up with Joyce and Buchanan pleading poverty with their sob stories.

I am also getting tired of listening to Buchanan say "what we are doing is" and then preceding to tell us all that they are doing with so many benefits to the Australian economy.

We know what you are doing and regardless of how good it is for the economy and the qantas group it is being done illegally.

BB, if the Darwin Singapore links are so important to be able to link the Australian and Asian networks then why not run them legally, even if it only breaks even or makes a loss.

Other companies do this, it's called a loss leader!!

Best question of the day: Have you had any discussions with DIAC about the use of foreign CC? by Senator X.

To which the response was in the negative as they are so confident that they are not breaching immigration laws. BB seems to be under the impression that foreign CC can enter Australia and have full work rights for 30 days. FAIL!!!

More interesting given that this is an alledged major breach of the countries immigration laws is that it appears that given jetstar have had no discussions with DIAC that the complaints to the Dob in line have gone un-investigated. Minister Bowen should be asked for a response.

More to follow on immigration

The Kelpie
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Old 6th Feb 2012, 08:47
  #295 (permalink)  
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I haven't seen the proceedings or transcripts, only read what the news sites write. But all I can imagine from hat I've read is that the aj and bb plan is to project to the pollies that you dare pass this law, the cash and aircraft and flying is all going overseas. Qf will be a domestic carrier only and jetstar asia, japan, new 'premium' carrier etc will be doing all of the international flying. All of it.

The 10 year plan will be complete. And it will be the governments and unions' fault.
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Old 6th Feb 2012, 08:48
  #296 (permalink)  
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Austar ch648 "A-Pac" now...
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Old 6th Feb 2012, 08:53
  #297 (permalink)  
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Said it before

Most species of fish can be caught by spin fishing, however some are more susceptible to this technique than others. - Wikipedea.
You have to ask; is watching the Senate really worth the effort ??, frustration and subsequent disappointment.

The Senators have been hoodwinked, bamboozled, outsmarted and outclassed for more than 2 decades now. Nothing new here. Read the last response from CASA; smooth. Pony pooh, but smooth, Gummint off the hook, so all's well in toyland.


The public has no information, the Minister is afeared of the 'mystique' and, of course getting blamed. The information has been offered to them, but all too busy being busy.

The sheer volume of publicly available information ignored, the Engineers ignored, Pilots ignored, hundreds of Coroners recommendations ignored, FAA advice ignored, ICAO advice ignored, dozens of ATSB recommendations ignored, hundreds of industry complaints ignored; and, this hand full of politically hidebound attention seekers are going to 'save the world'.


If there is a major prang, the bullets will be flying thick and fast. Then watch' em duck and weave.

But the incontrovertible evidence that these dumb fish were so easily caught by a spinner is there for the world to see. I just hope the world is watching. You can run, but you can't hide.

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Old 6th Feb 2012, 08:53
  #298 (permalink)  
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I hate to make these predictions but Joyce is just putting the word out about route closures, job losses that would already be in the works. Good a time as any to let the senate know - now it makes it look like these are the reasons for said cancellations/job losses. What a puppet!
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Old 6th Feb 2012, 09:01
  #299 (permalink)  
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Joyce's Qantas pilots only flying 500 hours on average per year.

What about the LEAVE reduction program in place for the last X amount of years.

I'm taking 2 months Annual Leave & 2 months Long Service Leave this year.

There's no way in hell I'll be able to meet Industries Best Practice of 800 to 900 hours this year.

Mstr Caution is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2012, 09:37
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Maybe it's the same crisis type strategy Qantas played at FWA.

Ie: Terminate the protected industrial action as forward bookings are collapsing & the airline is suffering death by 1000 cuts.

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