QF Solution on Offer

[QF94]

QF94,

Its an attitude like yours that will drive the investor celebrations when your job or the jobs of people like you become 'offshored' and that is only a matter of time. Angry souls have no place in a business like Qantas.

Best you get your resume in order if not already done so, pretty soon you are going to need it!

NP

NP,

I guess that's why you're offshored and you are an angry soul because your shares are not doing so well. See your much revered CEO about why your share price is wallowing in the pits. Not the workers who don't have a say in which direction the company is going. It's also reassuring to know that individuals like yourself will derive great pleasure when jobs are lost so you can make a few miserable dollars. I hope your afterlife has enough space for all the dividends QANTAS will be paying you.

It's a looooong way back to $2.80. 5, 10, 15 years? Who knows? Who cares? Enjoy your losses, because I certainly am.

It's a bit difficult to have offshore people running a business in Australia, unless that's the direction of QANTAS. Maybe you would like QF onshore with you. Quite possible you may want to get back into a company that offshored you.

I will be here in QANTAS long after the board are made to step down once their own "indiscretions" are exposed and the angry mob of shareholders want explanations as to why a company like QANTAS has fallen from grace in such a short period as it has in the last 7 to 10 years. It takes a long time to build a company like QANTAS, but not so long to destroy it in the name of making it a "Stronger QANTAS" for a greedy few, inclusive of yourself.

[Gingerbread]

Half of Qantas' jobs are on the line - as the boss Alan Joyce gets a nice $2 million bonus | News.com.au

Alan Joyce has warned that half the airline would "be gone" within a year, if unions pursued their industrial campaign into 2012.

"If action continues as the unions have promised, we will have no choice but to shrink the airline bit by bit," he said.

The Qantas Board will not be stepping down. Shareholders have spoken and Government is not going to use the Sale Act to halt the establishment of RedQ.

If the workers want to keep Qantas in Australia, it looks more and more like they are going to have to buy in.

[C441]

Sadly true, however some figures posted on another forum make that option increasingly unlikely too.

When 240 shareholders own 82.5% of the shares on offer, the other 133,400 shareholders have little chance of acquiring a reasonable holding at a reasonable price.

I'm sure you can guess who's amongst the 240 "lucky" owners who would stand to gain enormously from any even relatively inflated offer for the company.

[QF94]

I was in attendance at the AGM yesterday, and it was a disgusting display of arrogance and beligerance on the part of the board. Especially when the remuneration of AJ was passed, to see him look up at the shareholders, sit back in his chair and smirk at everyone. Also stating that they (the board) will not be told how to run "their" business. It is not their business at all. Richard Branson can say Virgin is his Business, because it is. Bill gates can say Microsoft is his buisness because it is. This pack of parasites are milking a company for all it's worth to build their own business, offshore, otherwise known as Jetstar Asia.

It was a foregone conclusion that the resolutions were passed in favour of the board, and whether there is continued industrial action or not, "we will have no choice but to shrink the airline bit by bit." This has been going on since the days of Geoff Dixon and since May 2004 when the birth of Jetstar was the beginning of the death of QANTAS.

AJ went on to say that if they go ahead with the Pan Asia move, not one Australian job will be lost. He's correct. it will be 'tousands' of jobs.

Dick Smith was also surprising in the Daily Tele today. "If QANTAS International doesn't get globalised wages it will go out of business". There is a flaw in this theory. if Australia doesn't get globalised prices for the cost of living, Australia will be out of business. We simply cannot compare our wages with Asia, as we cannot compare our cost of living with Asia. Corporations are quite happy to employ cheap labour overseas, whilst putting thousands of Australians out of work. Here's the kicker. How will these same businesses be able to stay in Australia when there is no one to buy their products?

It is unfortunate to think this, but QF days look numbered and may be laying next to Ansett. if this happens, the board may have to take residence overseas for their own protection. The alleged death threats may become a reality. For the record, I am not making the threat. just an observation.

[neville_nobody]

"If QANTAS International doesn't get globalised wages it will go out of business".

I assume he was talking about the board isn't he?

[hadagutfull]

I missed part of the dribble by AJ..

What is the reason the share price has tanked??

According to those oracles.....

Hmm shrinking the airline ha.. Before it was a covert plan. Now they can use this dispute as an overt plan to carry out what they were gonna do anyway.

[QF94]

Quote:
"If QANTAS International doesn't get globalised wages it will go out of business".
I assume he was talking about the board isn't he?

The board won't be out of business. They've propped themselves up nicely. AJ was in Ansett and look what happened to it.

[1a sound asleep]

Quote:
"If action continues as the unions have promised, we will have no choice but to shrink the airline bit by bit," he said.

Qantas is baiting the unions to ramp up action IMO. Its what they want so they can legitimately shrink Qantas down. Surely this is obvious to people??

[QF94]

Quote:
"If action continues as the unions have promised, we will have no choice but to shrink the airline bit by bit," he said.

Qantas is baiting the unions to ramp up action IMO. Its what they want so they can legitimately shrink Qantas down. Surely this is obvious to people??

This is obvious, and has been for some time. The issue is, it is going to be done regardless. That is why the board are not negotiating and wanting the dispute. The dispute is their cover. If there is no dispute, and the basic 3% is accepted with nothing else, we will still be too expensive because LAME's are on $170,000 a piece while the pilots are on $300,00 or so say AJ and OW, and will only delay their shrinking of the airline, not stop it.

[1a sound asleep]

and will only delay their shrinking of the airline, not stop it.

Christ, take what they give and hope that AJ gets the arse in a year or 2. Make it hard for them. Union action is just giving it to them on a silver platter. 1989 all again

[QF94]

Christ, take what they give and hope that AJ gets the arse in a year or 2. Make it hard for them. Union action is just giving it to them on a silver platter. 1989 all again

Hope AJ gets the flick in a year or two? There was hope he may have been a bit different than Dixon. He is just as bad, if not worse, with Clifford's backing. That will be like waiting for the next federal election and hope all will be OK after the carbon tax is in place next year.

I don't believe that industrial action is what most people want, but the situation is a bit like the cartoon below. We are being trashed by the board and this is the last great act of defiance.

[NewPiper]

I'll say it again, all three unions are falling into a massive bear trap. Shutting down 50% of Qantas is a reality and like I said before, it may seem like a radical move but THEY WILL DO IT if necessary, and when they do, the share price will start to rise. 98% of shareholders approve of the boards intentions and even though the board doesn't personally own all outstanding shares, 98% of all outstanding shares authorise them to run the Company and make decisions for shareholders, employees and customers.

Ansett all over again?? Well not quite, but for the employees that will be sacked, yes it will be Ansett all over again, most of whom are innocent hard working, dedicated QF employees who understand the simple concept that QF is now post 9/11, post SARS, post GFC, high Oil prices etc etc AND trying to operate in an environment full of heavily subsidised competitors. For the shareholders, it won't be Ansett all over again, because they own several other valuable portfolio assets that will soak up (in time) plenty of slack left behind by QF LH. Also, QF LH is not worth much today. In fact, some say the market is attributing a NEGATIVE value on the share price because of QF LH. If true, that should be a huge red flag for employees.

The market gap left behind by QF LH will feed Jetstar growth for years and make it an even more valuable and profitable business. The QF LH 'Shell' will still be owned by shareholders and those 'smirk' faced board members (as you call them) will inevitably re-start QF LH in some form or another without the menacing staff that I understand were present at the AGM yesterday.

98% of shareholders support the CEO. Take 1a's advice and do a deal, but time is fast running out. The damage has already been done, and its only a matter of time now before LH ops get seriously reduced and restructured which will result in big job losses.

No doubt, most posters on here will blame it on corporate greed (correctly so) but blind Freddy can see that some of the contributory fault lies with the Union leaders but they will NEVER admit that. They probably already know that their battles are fruitless, so rather than swallow their pride, they will fight to the end with member funds until members lose their union and their jobs.

Unless deals are done now, it will all end in tears, mainly for the affected employees and associated industry businesses but not the Shareholders.

Madness!!! Why fight an unwinnable battle?

NP

[LAME2]

Bring back the overtime bans and let us all be patient and wait. A deal will come when the Board and Managers want a deal, not a minute sooner. That will come when institution investors start getting anxious about their investment.

A further Senate hearing begins this Friday. It could also bring forward a resolution to this, but I doubt it. Hopefully it will expose QANTAS Management plans as risky and against the National Interest. If that occurs , the union movement will have to claim it as a win, but that alone will not get us a deal.

[neville_nobody]

I can't see a deal occurring as it would be in direct opposition to the stated company's direction for the future. They aren't going to change the off shoring to Asia and even if the government intervened and forced negotiations that is always going to be a sticking point. You need a third party (ie the government, a court case, or a takeover and removal of the board) to intervene and stop the company's outsourcing into Asia. Striking isn't going to do much.

So all that will happen is that jobs will be lost over a period of time as they slowly shrink the company.

[booglaboy]

Is everyone forgetting that jetstar is owned by qantas, paid for by qantas and has no rights without qantas. Shut down qantas and jetstar will fold inside a year. It is not a cash cow. It makes a profit on paper due to creative accounting and at the expense of qantas mainline. Jetstar's whole international fleet are qantas aircraft. Fold qantas, jetstar will go too

[Short_Circuit]

Shut down qantas and jetstar will fold inside a year

Problem is they have been spinning lies for so long they have confused truth & fiction, they think J* is propping up QF

[-438]

You can blame who ever you like, but blaming the pilots for this mess is out of step with reality.

Qantas pilots are not on strike.
Qantas pilots have not been on strike since 1966.

Red ties and PA's will not cause loss of revenue for QF.

Any current pay rate Qantas pilots are on has been mutually agreed by Qantas management and Qantas pilots.

[QF94]

Is everyone forgetting that jetstar is owned by qantas, paid for by qantas and has no rights without qantas. Shut down qantas and jetstar will fold inside a year. It is not a cash cow. It makes a profit on paper due to creative accounting and at the expense of qantas mainline. Jetstar's whole international fleet are qantas aircraft. Fold qantas, jetstar will go too

QANTAS won't fold or disappear. The name will be around enough to keep Jetstar going. I'm sure the board won't want to pay themselves Jetstar salaries. They still need QANTAS shares, because there's no such thing as a Jetstar share.

IF QANTAS was to disappear, so do the big salaries. Also, an Australia without QANTAS is one that won't function as well either. The infrastructure of QANTAS within this country is too big for any other airline or aviation company to fill. Even Jetstar.

QANTAS won't be halved. If it is, then Jetstar won't be able to take advantage of QF's leverage in buying power as was stated in yesterday's meeting, and will have to pay higher prices for its fleet. It doesn't have the investment grading QANTAS has. Jetstar actually has zero in anything.

Maybe the government should step in and nationalise the company. Set the wages for the board and stabilise the company in the National Interest. Not in the interest of the self-serving dozen on the board.

[MACH082]

Personally I think LC aka 'the emperor' is the cause of this head ache.

Obviously AJ is his mouth piece and LC is calling the shots at Qantas.

AJ will take the fall or the credit whatever the result. I believe it will be the fall, as this strategy they are pursuing has knobs on it.

Let's hope LC chokes on his grange for the good of the nation. Perhaps the Rio Tinto fellas need to be brought on board from his last stoush as 'advisers'

He'd love that

[slim]

Don't forget, by Alan Joyce's stated plan, "RedQ' or whatever is only Stage 1 of his restructure of international ops. He hasn't said how many stages are to come, but rest assured if you cave in at stage 1 you will be decimated in the later stages. May well happen even if you don't cave in.