Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

DASH 8 accident in PNG

Old 4th Jan 2013, 12:26
  #161 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2012
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In regard the EHL safety award it was awarded on merit, the A/PNG operations on that contract are squeaky clean. EHL pay top dollar and insist on compliance in all aspects.
When you pay top dollar you can turn a sow's ear into a silk purse.
Pity this cannot be replicated more often in a dollar orientated world
Ret Sabala is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2013, 05:27
  #162 (permalink)  
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JUNK???????? At least they don't need hubcaps! Keep the ranks closed fella's, those two crew need all the support they can get. The Press, watch.
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Old 5th Jan 2013, 08:25
  #163 (permalink)  
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Given the report that come out on the P2-TAA accident recently it would be safe to assume that the final report will be reasonably accurate. I believe all the FDR and CVR data was removed and was all recoverable.
Waghi Warrior is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2013, 10:04
  #164 (permalink)  
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It is disappointing that for two contributors who appear to have experience in PNG, that you do not appear to not show at least some support for the industry as a whole and espicially the pilots for the efforts everyone goes to in trying to operate in an environment where it would appear nothing works.
That statement couldn't be further from the truth. My support will always be with and remain with loyal pilots, 'good guys just trying to do the right thing'. In fact that goes for the entire aviation industry.
My disdain and disgust is aimed at those who cut corners, run shonky outfits, fail to oversight their operations level of safety and KILL PEOPLE. Then they try to distance themselves, shuffle the deck chairs, avoid accountability and run for the hills like spineless toads.

MachTwelve, as for disliking my reference to APNG, debating is useless and no more comment on that from me, let the statistics speak for themselves.

As for PNG CAA......hmmmm. Again, that really speaks for itself doesn't it???
my oleo is extended is offline  
Old 13th Jun 2013, 00:48
  #165 (permalink)  
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I just looked for a completed report and can't find one.
Anyone know if a report has been published?
rjtjrt is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2013, 11:59
  #166 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 1999
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From what you hear,the extreme hours these guys fly and he poor maintenaince hasn`t changed; 50 plus on duty hours a week is really a bit over the top.
Accidents will happen if this sort of operation doesn`t change.Does CASA ever get off their backsides or don't they care.
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Old 21st Jun 2013, 23:41
  #167 (permalink)  
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So fingers are being pointed at CASA now, I assume you guys are referring to the PNG CASA. I think that everyone in the know has half an idea of what triggered this accident. At the time of the accident the type of incident that triggered things to go pear shaped could have occurred to "ANY" Dash 8 operator in the world. PNG CASA actually acted (post accident) in the most appropriate way with regards to the implementation of the mandatory AD.
Waghi Warrior is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2013, 08:12
  #168 (permalink)  
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APNG issues continue

Is this ban still in place?

On 27th October 2011 The American Embassy in Papua New Guinea has banned all its staff and citizens from flying on Airlines PNG. In a message posted on its website last Thursday, the embassy said US citizens travelling to or living in Papua New Guinea must not travel on the airline until further notice. It said embassy personnel could fly with Airlines PNG only with the approval of the US ambassador to PNG and only for the embassy’s essential business. It issued this directive following the airline’s recent plane crash on Oct 13 in Madang, when a Dash 8 crashed, killing 28 of the 32 people on board. The embassy said Airlines PNG had experienced two plane crashes in the recent past, resulting in 41 deaths. The embassy had encouraged Americans to maintain an updated profile in the Smart Traveller Enrolment Programme, or STEP, at the website: http://mwerigi.********

The public voice:

A reminder:
Incidents and accidents:
  • 15 December 1992. A Britten-Norman Islander aircraft struck a mountain near Alotau, Papua New Guinea. 6 people killed.
  • 12 July 1995. Shortly after takeoff from Dagura Airport, the Twin Otter aircraft exploded and crashed into shallow water. 13 people killed.
  • 11 May 1996. Britten-Norman Islander flew into a valley surrounded by high terrain near Oumba. Pilot attempted a 180 degree turn, but crashed into trees. 1 passenger killed.
  • 9 July 1996. Twin Otter aircraft struck a mountain in cloudy conditions on approach to Mendi. 20 killed.
  • 29 July 2004. Twin Otter crashed near Ononge, in cloudy conditions. 2 killed.
  • 11 August 2009. Flight 4684, a Twin Otter, made a failed go-around in cloudy conditions near Kokoda. The aircraft crashed into a mountain at an altitude of 5500 feet (1676 metres). All 13 people on board were killed.
  • 13 October 2011. An Airlines PNG Dash 8-100, registration P2-MCJ, performing flight CG1600 from Lae to Madang (Papua New Guinea), crashed about 20 km south of Madang and caught fire, killing 28 of the 32 aboard.
This company and it's sister company in Australia are owned and run by the same person, begs the question as to why the CAA or CASA aren't concerned?
Pith Helmet is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2013, 09:47
  #169 (permalink)  
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Thumbs up

Who knows, who cares! Get over it!!!!!!!

Exxon Mobil seem to be happy flying all their staff around in APNG's Dash 8s.

APNG must be doing something RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 18th Jul 2013, 10:58
  #170 (permalink)  
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Just don't go naming any Dash 8's 'Valdez' okay...?!
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Old 18th Jul 2013, 23:58
  #171 (permalink)  
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Cactus, Whilst we all have a fair idea what triggered the Dash 8 accident it isn't exactly fair to point the finger at individuals or an organisation. The whole industry in general has a lot to learn from this tragic event, the same event could have occurred to any operator.

The behaviour of blaming individuals or organisations for tragic accidents or incidents doesn't do anything positive in promoting aviation safety

Last edited by Waghi Warrior; 18th Jul 2013 at 23:59.
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Old 19th Jul 2013, 01:13
  #172 (permalink)  
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Pith Helmet,

Unsure about the website, but the US Ambassador is certainly travelling on APNG, so I guess the restriction has been lifted.

If you intend posting accident records , why not also post all of Talair's accidents and tie these to FlightWest and then Alliance. The links between the totally different company's and relevance are about the same...... Original owner and ?????? or BOAC and British Airways (don't forget the Comet, at least it has more in common with the B747-400 than an islander flown single pilot, has in common with a DHC-8).

Whilst I understand your (and CJ's) need to publically display your vitriol against Skytrans (after all it was them who fired both of you, a decision supported by FWA), why you tie the great staff work in PNG up in this I am not sure.
MachTwelve is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2013, 09:49
  #173 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2003
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You may need to do your homework again.

"very protective of your airline and don't mind having a shot at your competition Heavilift"

No such competitor.....

Have you ever operated in PNG
geeup is offline  
Old 13th Dec 2013, 01:04
  #174 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2011
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In the Post Courier today but the website won't let me in. Free subscription offered but no confirmation email arrives (tried two different email addresses)

Probe into Airlines PNG crash underway
The PNG Accident Investigations Commission has progressed investigations into the Airlines PNG plane crash in Madang in 2011 which claimed 28 lives.
VolLibre is offline  
Old 14th Dec 2013, 22:13
  #175 (permalink)  
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Couldn't see anything on the AIC website and I couldn't be bothered joining the newspapers subscription base.
Anybody else got any info or update on the APNG investigation status? It's been two years now.
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Old 15th Dec 2013, 21:53
  #176 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Solomon Islands
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From Post Courier

Probe into Airlines PNG crash underway
The PNG Accident Investigations Commission has progressed investigations into the Airlines PNG plane crash in Madang in 2011 which claimed 28 lives.
Chief Commissioner of the PNG Accident Investigations Com-mission Nema Yalo said yesterday that the investigation into the accident has come to a stage where findings of the commissions were delivered to persons and stakeholders directly involved in the accident for their comments and feedbacks.
Mr Yalo said the commission would not release any information on the progress of the investigations at this stage according to aviation investigations laws, until it receives responses from directly involved persons.
"The directly involved persons would involve the aircraft manufactures or manufacturers of parts of aircrafts. It also involves immediate families of the victims involved in the accident for their feedback on the findings of the commission," Mr Yalo said.
He said the commission would not be able to provide a definite time as to when the final reports would be ready. "As to when the reports would be ready is a matter of process. It is not like investigating simple traffic accident on the road as there are international Civil Aviation rules that must be followed. It takes a lot of time when relevant parts of the planes are sent out to manufactures for analysis and inspections," Mr Yalo said.
He added that the commission does not have any control of how long investigations would take but only wait for the reports to be sent back to them in order to pursue further.
The commission also called on airline operators to be extra cautious in the Christmas period because there were frequent aviation accidents occurring unlike in the past.
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Old 17th Mar 2014, 13:39
  #177 (permalink)  
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Any accident investigation updates?

Any updates yet?
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Old 20th Mar 2014, 11:24
  #178 (permalink)  
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"Independent" with feedback and influence of interested parties.
Ejector is offline  
Old 15th Jun 2014, 09:06
  #179 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Accident report released

One of the friends still working with APNG called to advise that theaccident report had been released this morning (which I have an interest in as theFirst Officer is also a friend). Found a link to it at the AIC website. Afew points I picked up from a read of the report. It does appear PNG AIC hasdone a good job on this one.

Captain had just over 18,000 hours, with over 500 hours on the Dash-8, andthe First Officer had a little over 2,700 hours, and 391 hours on type.

It appears that on descent into Madang the Captain inadvertently selected thepower levers below the flight idle gates

The right hand engine over sped to a maximum of 2,056 RPM, and the leftengine to a maximum of 1,903 RPM.

Approximately two seconds after the overspeed commenced the PCU beta switch onthe right hand engine failed into the closed position which caused the righthand propeller to auto-feather. This had been incorrectly installed duringoverhaul by Pacific Propeller International in the USA. The crew would not havebeen able to unfeather the propeller. The FAA has since issued a recall for allPCU’s overhauled at this facility between 2001 and 2013.

Due to the high rotational speed the left hand engine turbine suffered suchinternal damage as to be unable to produce any useful power. This appears tohave occurred around 20 -30 seconds after the overspeed commenced. Followingthis point the crew had no alternatives but to force land the aircraft.

The beta warning horn did not initially sound, but started to sound fourseconds after the overspeed, and then only intermittently. Bombardier later identifieda failure with the warning horn on their own Dash-8, and issued a service bulletinto address this.

The crew (whilst the report notes as have to shoutat each other to be heard, and with smoke in the flight deck) did not followthe procedures in the QRH, and did not feather the left hand engine for asignificant period after the overspeed. This shortened the time the crew had availableto prepare for the forced landing. It also notes that the crew appear not haveexperienced a propeller overspeed during their type ratings. They did not extendflaps or the landing gear as part of the forced landing, however the reportdoes note that instructions in the QRH were not specific on this.

The report identified that the FAA had required the fitmentof a device to avert a propeller overspeed if the power levers were selectedbelow the flight idle gate on Dash-8 aircraft in 2000, and the UK CAA hadrequired this in the mid-1980’s. Transport Canada for some reason did notextend this requirement to any other part of the world. However the reportidentifies five other known occasions (including a Qantas Dash-8) where a similarevent had occurred. It also identifies a number of other incidents andaccidents involving other turbo-props but also that these manufacturers had allinstalled protection devices by the mis-1990’s.

On 4 June 2013 Transport Canada issued anAirworthiness Directive requiring the beta lockout system to be installed onall Dash-8 -100/200 and 300 aircraft worldwide within 6,000 hours or 3 years. Ionly hope no one else has to go through what my friend did in this period untilthe AD is actually installed on all Dash-8 aircraft.
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Old 15th Jun 2014, 10:48
  #180 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2013
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Who will be accountable?

Link to the final accident report below;

- Primary root cause of the accident has been identified as "pilot error".
- Some of the causal factors identified in the report were;
• Nil use of the QRH while several emergencies were taking place
• Nil use of emergency procedures
• Operators training system had been ineffective for an incident or occurrence of this type

Seems Toomey ran away just in time, so with whom will the corporate 'accountability' now lay with? The current CEO? The MD? Who pays the price for the 28 charred corpses? APNG from my recollection have killed around 90 people in total over the years. Will management yet again hide behind the lawyers and politicians and remain protected and escape accountability?
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