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Qantas announcement today

Old 13th Oct 2011, 10:57
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Did I mention I would never employ ex Qantas staff for my airline? I think Mc Donalds is employing right now.
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Old 13th Oct 2011, 10:58
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Couldn't we all just have individual contracts and then we would get the market rate - ie if they don't offer enough they won't get the people required to do the work. Don't have to worry about government trying to set wages then.
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Old 13th Oct 2011, 11:00
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Hey Mourgo,

I'm a LAME. I'll give you ten minutes to name any profession that would require that person to have sat and passed as many exams as I have. Give it your best shot.
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Old 13th Oct 2011, 11:03
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Pay pay pay. That's what QF management are talking about. What about respect, morale and all the other fuzzy stuff? That's what's been lacking at Qantas for the past decade. These are intangibles that can't be considered part of an EBA dispute but that's what's been missing. Hating employees can get a company so far, but when it comes to EBA time... look what happens. The ALAEA and TWU comments have been nothing more than a fairly polite reflection of what the staff have been saying for some time.

So the employees make more money than their competitors? True. Funny how they're more upset than their competitors' employees. When was the last Alliance IR dispute? The last Virgin dispute? Even though they get Less Money? There is more to IR disharmony than money. The TWU and ALAEA also represent employees from those companies, as well as NZ and CX Engineering, Toll Dnata, Menzies, Gate Gourmet and Alpha Flight Catering. Funny how their 'unions' aren't making waves, isn't it?

This is about Qantas and the way they run their company. As for the TWU Qantas members, their jobs are ed anyway. They've been told that by various middle managers and now...they believe them. What's to lose, when you're rooted whichever way?

P.S. McDonalds are a decent employer with career progression opportunities. Franchise arrangements notwithstanding, when was their last IR dispute? From outside observation, I would far rather work for Maccas than Qantas. At least they care about selling their product and support their staff.

Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 13th Oct 2011 at 11:19.
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Old 13th Oct 2011, 11:12
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Mourgo .. Mongo
All originally quoted by Mongo
Geez.. Maybe I shouldnt come to Emirates. I'll stick to my A320 in Australia. Sounds very bad to work for EK!

BTW anyone flying MEL - KUL A340-500 on 4th May?
Can any crew (pilots / FA) comment on working at VA? Compared to the likes of Qantas or other major international airlines, what are the conditions like, pay, culture, benefits etc? Just some general comments here.
Can someone tell me whats the difference if you start engine 1 first or engine 2 first. I know some airlines SOP say engine 1 1st and some airlines SOP say engine 2 1st? Does it matter?
Qantas Flight Simulators Essendon
4 years ago i got the chance to visit the Essendon flight simulators and watch pilots train on a 737-400. Any pilots out there fly the A330 or A320 that want to take me on a flight simulator ride. Its a life long dream on the Airbus. I'll pay anything
damn,

I knew some air nauru pilots a few years back. Watched emergency procedured performed in the 737.

Looks like ill have to go to london and pay $3500 to fly them..
All you pilots just complain and complain. I'd hate to turn out like that. There's starving people in this world and we worry about money? How bad can it be? A newby with an airline id guess you would get about 70-100k AUD a year. I have a passion for the industry so money will not motivate me at all.

Like i said i have enough income to stay home and do nothing for the next 3 years and live like a king. I've had a taste of flying in a real simulator and i love it.
And in 2005
Australian Pilots
Can any Aussie pilots out there give me some info on starting a career as an airline pilot. I know the industry is hard to get into. Money is not an issue.. Where do I start?
You're a bit of an aerosexual so I'm guessing you 'own' JetExperiences.

Please I'm begging can I work for a numpty like you ?
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Old 13th Oct 2011, 11:17
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ALAEA i never said Engineers dont have an education. Im sure you worked hard to achieve what you have. And Im sure you are paid very well for it.

And i must repeat myself im not sticking up for Qantas. I just think there is too much greed out there and unions have nothing better to do. If you dont like your employer or pay then leave. Theres many many more people out there doing it hard with crap jobs and crap pay. In these economic times we should all be greatful we have a job.

The airline I work for contracts all its employees on 10 year contracts that are renewable. No unions and reasonable pay and conditions. My team are very happy.
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Old 13th Oct 2011, 11:18
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I'll have a go Stevie Wonder,
Pilot, Doctor, Sports Physio, surgeon, environmental scientist, occupational hygienist, aeronautical engineer, magistrate, civil engineer, pretty much anyone with a degree, pretty much anyone who has gone onto post trade studies............ gee....... quite a few really so your academic "test taking" prowess is actually as common as flies on a turd. Sorry no gold sticker for you today test master fed sec.

You are in a league of your own for various other reasons however, I shall list them also -
Unrivalled Poor leadership
unchallenged Poor negotiating skills
laughable Poor people skills
Really Poor PR skills ( you should get some tips from Olivia Wirth as she goes OK on the tv)
Sadly Poor communication skills (see above)
Woefully High blood pressure ( i suspect)
Obvious Low anger management ability
Sadly Low charisma
Obvious Low intelligence
Historical Low success rate in IR discussion
Historical low chance of winning this current debacle of a union attack
Higher than average chance of digging your comarades into a deep hole
Higher than average chance that your comrades will be looking for jobs overseas within 12 months with some tin pot chinese start up airline

That was only two minutes worth....

But, I hear that you do a wicked sausage sizzle for the comrades, so battle on my son, wave your flag and keep up the angry face! Its highly amusing to watch.
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Old 13th Oct 2011, 11:20
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HAHAHA 600ft yeah I never made it to be a pilot BUT now in the corporate world of the airlines industry.. (NOT AUSTRALIA BTW).


Pleased you took the time to research me..
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Old 13th Oct 2011, 11:25
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28th Aug 2008, 13:19 Replies: 56
19 Years
Views: 4,882
Posted By victor two

It's a known fact that the strike was the best thing that ever happened to Aussie aviation. It reset the reality check machine perfectly.

A bunch of ego driven and highly underworked pilots who were being paid fairly at the time wanted to try and hold a nation to ransom. They got slapped in the face, kicked in the rear end and, 19 years on, still have not come to terms with the humiliation of their shameful loss.


For all those who post on here saying that their phones were bugged and they were followed by men in dark coats and suglasses. It never happened. That's just the paranoia which comes from drinking too much and spending too many hours alone dwelling on the past.


In fact, the broom needs a good push through the industry again to collect the rubbish it missed back in '89.
Yours I believe?
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Old 13th Oct 2011, 11:33
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Victor Two,

I don't see any profession there where a person would have been required to pass the 120 exams I have sat, nearly all with a 75% pass mark. Correct me if I am wrong, spare the insults.
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Old 13th Oct 2011, 11:35
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Tragic?

Read the Ben Sandilands article at Plane Talking

Article titled The 'Little Qantas' culture.

The last sentence of the article says it all.

'nuff said.
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Old 13th Oct 2011, 11:36
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I think you will find Victor Two was a failure in the aviation industry.
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Old 13th Oct 2011, 11:37
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1 x 767, & 4 x 737's????
Shows the complete disconnect between the top of the company and the coalface!
I've seen a lot more than that grounded in the last two weeks.....and it hasn't really even begun yet! How short their memories are!
Obviously by the time the message reaches whatever Neil Perry restaurant the CEO is in at the time, it barely resembles reality!
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Old 13th Oct 2011, 11:49
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Victor-2 You have no idea mate. Doctors would be the only ones who would come close to the amount of study and proficiency required by LAME's. I would suggest that Medicine is probably harder to complete than being a LAME however once you have finished your 8 odd years of study for medicine the pressure is off in terms of study. For pilots and/or LAMES it never ends.

I would love to see to pilot/LAME type testing and reviews brought into other industries and just watch them all blow up. Imagine if you made doctors or lawyers do quarterly exams and practical reviews. They would be up in arms!! Let's make Judges do 6 monthly law exams. That's probably why they are self regulated anyway.

Let's have a open discussion about CRM and self reporting in Medicine...that worked really well didn't it!!

In terms of work proficiency and competency no industry in the world anywhere comes close to aviation. No one.

As the saying goes 'Doctors can bury their mistakes. Pilots are buried in theirs'.
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Old 13th Oct 2011, 11:58
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Lawyers (and Dr's too) need to continually upskill and keep up with emerging trends and developments .. in particular, there is a requirement for all lawyers to complete regular (usually programmed monthly) continual professional development units to be able to maintain then gain their annual practice certificates.

Perhaps stick to comparing apples with apples instead of dragging in other professions ..
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Old 13th Oct 2011, 12:00
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Let's be careful on that one. Court Lawyers (Barristers) are tested every single time they appear for a client. Do well? The client walks free. Do badly? They do time. Of course the client may be right for it, but maybe they weren't. That's the burden a Barrister carries every with every guilty verdict. (agree re the Judges re-certifying, btw). As for doctors, the outcomes can be even worse, speaking as someone who lost a close relative to medical malpractice.

Don't lose sight of the key issues and get caught up in a "They earn" bitch fight. The figures quoted in the press irt to pilots and LAMEs are clearly wrong. However, what's a lawyer earn? I'll bet that a number of readers will say 'over a million.' This may be correct for a few Melbourne/Sydney silks but for the most part...they earn about what you do. No more, no less. This is about aviation, not other professions.

Don't get sidetracked by subverts and managers who question your skills, because all that happens is that all workers (and I include professionals in that, much as they'd like to dispute it ) get shafted by their employers, whether they be private or government. One of the problems lawyers in this state face is; they have no Union. They have no-one to speak on their behalf (apart from the various 'associations' who are busy with their own problems) so they get shafted. They won't tell you that because...they're lawyers. .
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Old 13th Oct 2011, 12:10
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Steve Purvinas can represent me any day.
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Old 13th Oct 2011, 12:26
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I dont work for Qantas or care about them. I just hate unions who have nothing better to do and create negativity to the media. They brainwash employees believeing they are being hard done by.

I know for a fact what Qantas workers get paid in all areas and its pretty good especially being a baggage handler, check in staff and catering staff (no education needed for that job).

Customers will leave and go to other airlines, forcing permanent flight cancellations and shrinking the fleet just to stay profitable. Obviously this will lead to job cuts so the people striking?????? Killing their own future and jobs.
Totally agree, now SP let's remember LAME's at other airlines would sit the exact same exams as QF LAME's is that not correct? Also let's not forget the person doing the same job at QF as myself is on 12% more than myself, yet when it came to our EBA negations we were continually lied to by the TWU about potential PIA we were told it was going to happen, and the union wanted as much support as possible and wanted people to become union members and have their union dues waived for three months, so silly me signed on, silly me started having my wages docked for union dues, and the union hadn't even put the paperwork to Fairwork Australia for PIA, you and Sheldon are nothing but rorts, union rorts.
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Old 13th Oct 2011, 12:28
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Disagree with that one. Lawyers doing professional development is not the same as flight testing. A Laywer doesn't lose his license if he loses a case.
A judge doesn't get fired if his ruling is overthrown on appeal. Pilots too get sued. Anyway this is a side issue, we need to remain on message and that is QF being destroyed from the inside out.
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Old 13th Oct 2011, 12:39
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I just think there is too much greed out there and unions have nothing better to do.
Spoken like a true capitalist. But who is being greedy? Hedge funds? Wall Street? Board Directors? CEOs? would-be CEOs? Is their greed not to be questioned? What would be a better thing for a union to do exactly?

If you dont like your employer or pay then leave.
And what if I liked my employer or pay, but then they changed and so did my pay? What about my family/career/mortgage/commitments? Such a typically 'let them eat cake' statement which totally ignores the reality of middle class working life.

Theres many many more people out there doing it hard with crap jobs and crap pay.
...and probably not represented by a union.

I'm not a union man, but it is safe to say that without the collective action of the masses we would all be working 12 hours a day for 50c an hour, and being flogged by robber barons for the privilege. I think its worth allowing unions a little latitude on this one. Especially when career politicians and corporate fat cats begin to collude ala Fergie & Dixie.
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