Qantas-October 28th
Thread Starter
Qantas-October 28th
As Qantas management continue to blame everyone else except themselves for their predicament, continues to pay massively overblown salaries and accept massive pay rises to the top executives, whilst chastising their employees for dare hoping that they have a future in Australia, it's interesting that Qantas have elected to book a hall that can accommodate less than 1000 for the next agm.
University of New South Wales - Venues and Events - Sir John Clancy Auditorium
The focus over the last few days has been about legally conducted PIA by the unions and the impact to Qantas moving forward. Unfortunately, I believe, this has taken the focus away from the failure of management over the last 10 years and particularly the last 12 months to reinvigorate Qantas and it's employees.
Hard Questions need to be asked. None regarding the current PIA but more to do with the lead up to the current position. Why hasn't qantas answered the questions asked by the ALAEA regarding the position of Jetstar? Why did Qantas provide inadequate responses to AIPA when their forensic accountants wanted a closer look? Why should the redQ or whatever it's called, be leveraging its capital from qantas when that capital is desperately needed to fix the international operational.
So many more questions that the board will be attempting (read desperately) trying to avoid in providing answers. This current stoush provides them with a smokescreen that they will be trying to intensify. The smokescreen provides the cover to enable them to shift more equity off shore and enables the pigs at the trough more opportunity to gouge to the benefit of themselves.
Lets hope the real focus can be magnified upon the board and it's performance, not on the employees who have little hope of any future because they can see the management plan is full of peril.
University of New South Wales - Venues and Events - Sir John Clancy Auditorium
The focus over the last few days has been about legally conducted PIA by the unions and the impact to Qantas moving forward. Unfortunately, I believe, this has taken the focus away from the failure of management over the last 10 years and particularly the last 12 months to reinvigorate Qantas and it's employees.
Hard Questions need to be asked. None regarding the current PIA but more to do with the lead up to the current position. Why hasn't qantas answered the questions asked by the ALAEA regarding the position of Jetstar? Why did Qantas provide inadequate responses to AIPA when their forensic accountants wanted a closer look? Why should the redQ or whatever it's called, be leveraging its capital from qantas when that capital is desperately needed to fix the international operational.
So many more questions that the board will be attempting (read desperately) trying to avoid in providing answers. This current stoush provides them with a smokescreen that they will be trying to intensify. The smokescreen provides the cover to enable them to shift more equity off shore and enables the pigs at the trough more opportunity to gouge to the benefit of themselves.
Lets hope the real focus can be magnified upon the board and it's performance, not on the employees who have little hope of any future because they can see the management plan is full of peril.
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HNH agree entirely that all the side shows effectively allow QF to avoid the issues they clearly have no intention of being engaged on and are which have been identified by you.
It also occurs to me there is another information gap in the current public debate. The unions claim QF have failed to engage in meaningful negotiations and QF keep claiming they want the Unions back at the table.
The information that I would like to see is exactly how have each of the parties conducted the negotiations and how have each contributed to trying to achieve a settlement. There is simply no reporting of the process and perhaps that is usual, but these are not usual times.
It also occurs to me there is another information gap in the current public debate. The unions claim QF have failed to engage in meaningful negotiations and QF keep claiming they want the Unions back at the table.
The information that I would like to see is exactly how have each of the parties conducted the negotiations and how have each contributed to trying to achieve a settlement. There is simply no reporting of the process and perhaps that is usual, but these are not usual times.
Thread Starter
I've just done a quick search for various figures of competitors, profits and load factors. Alan Joyce has said that the cost of doing business with Australian employees is something like 22% extra. So lets have a look at some other figures,
Profit figures announced March 2011
CX: HK$14.048mill Load Factor 81.1%
EK: $1.6 Billion Load Factor 80%
SQ: $1.092 Billion Load Factor 78.5%
QF: $552 million Load Factor 80.1%
So even with the 22% added cost, the boards performance doesn't match any of its peers. Who said KPI's were a good thing and how does Alan's and the boards package compare with their competitors? I'd bet slightly better than the 22%
Unfortunately, got to go to work now, but will try and get the costings for the various boards as well to see where the true value for money lies.
Cost allocation and shifting is still one of the most important subjects here when we consider the performance of qantas, jetstar and the rest of the group and in particular, when compared to overseas peers.
Profit figures announced March 2011
CX: HK$14.048mill Load Factor 81.1%
EK: $1.6 Billion Load Factor 80%
SQ: $1.092 Billion Load Factor 78.5%
QF: $552 million Load Factor 80.1%
So even with the 22% added cost, the boards performance doesn't match any of its peers. Who said KPI's were a good thing and how does Alan's and the boards package compare with their competitors? I'd bet slightly better than the 22%
Unfortunately, got to go to work now, but will try and get the costings for the various boards as well to see where the true value for money lies.
Cost allocation and shifting is still one of the most important subjects here when we consider the performance of qantas, jetstar and the rest of the group and in particular, when compared to overseas peers.
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It's simple, since AJ took the controls, the profit has been in continual decline, he is a disaster when it comes to sorting out staff engagement issues because he has none of those skills. He is a poor people manager and that's what airlines are all about.
To be fair, AJ did a reasonable job setting up J* but never had to raise capital as it was handed to him on a plate.
and
AJ, the board and their team of industry misfits have no idea about the above quotes. Q management have lost the plot but Australia's docile media press release copiers (journalists) allow it to happen, sadly, as they really don't understand the business they write about. (with the exception of B.Sandilands)
This is the real message that is not getting through.. then this today
It's become extremely messy and I feel the pilots have been short changed as they have not disrupted anything much other than make PA announcements (which in my view were working) and wear red ties. All this good work has now become entangled in other unions actions and has been tarred with the same brush. I think it is time for those cold showers..
Having said that, the lies coming from the management mouths over the past few months and we all have had to endure them over and over again, sooner or later someone was bound to "kick an own goal" out of shear frustration. Overall, SP has done a great job, he has proved he has his members interests at heart..
Yep, that's where its at now folks!
To be fair, AJ did a reasonable job setting up J* but never had to raise capital as it was handed to him on a plate.
Running an airline is like having a baby: fun to conceive, but hell to deliver.
— C. E. Woolman, principal founder Delta Air Lines
— C. E. Woolman, principal founder Delta Air Lines
If the employees come first, then they are happy. A motivated employee treats the customer well. The customer is happy so they keep coming back, which pleases the shareholders. It's not one of the enduring Green mysteries of all time, it is just the way it works.
— Herb Kelleher, Southwest Airlines CEO, in Lee, W. G., 'A Conversation with Herb Kelleher,' Organizational Dynamics, volume 23, issue 2, Autumn 1994.
Qantas has chosen to avoid the competitive task on routes to Asia and beyond to Europe with modern efficient wide-bodied jets, and done nothing but whinge about losing market share when it fact is hasn’t offered to fly the new growth routes so ably addressed by Emirates, Cathay Pacific and Singapore Airlines among others.
Qantas hasn’t had market stolen from it, rather than having given it up and away.
Jetstar type low cost franchises do make a lot of sense as an investment, yet they are not an alternative to keeping or winning the full service market in either Australia or on its longer haul markets. They create new demand, and grow aviation jobs. But they are no reason to abandon quality, especially where the opportunity resides in reputation and service delivery, rather than in the fare price. Ben Sandilands 11.10.11
Qantas hasn’t had market stolen from it, rather than having given it up and away.
Jetstar type low cost franchises do make a lot of sense as an investment, yet they are not an alternative to keeping or winning the full service market in either Australia or on its longer haul markets. They create new demand, and grow aviation jobs. But they are no reason to abandon quality, especially where the opportunity resides in reputation and service delivery, rather than in the fare price. Ben Sandilands 11.10.11
There is a hint of hysteria creeping into the Qantas union disputes today, and maybe it’s time for cold showers all around.
The shrillness set in when licensed engineer’s union Federal Secretary Steve Purvinas kicked an own goal by reportedly urging people to avoid making Christmas holiday bookings on Qantas.
If we are talking domestic holidays that is like saying load up the family car and drive to the Gold Coast (and risk dying on the roads) or take the ferry to Tasmania, which isn’t such a bad idea at all.
The fact is that it is Qantas/Jetstar or the highway, because Virgin Australia has no ambitions nor capacity to suddenly put on more or larger jets, and its load factors are already exceptionally high.
And Tiger is still in a period of self enforced irrelevancy, running a token schedule at token fares where it is possible they are continuing to lose money.
But if we are talking international holidays Qantas is already regarded as useless by most passengers, as it has dealt itself out of contention, and continues to make desperate attempts at rewriting history by claiming this is all the result of wicked government owned predators who have so unfairly invested in better newer jets, and then decided to fly them half a day faster to dozens of cities in Europe that Qantas couldn’t find on an atlas while standing up in a phone booth. Ben Sandilands 12.10.11.
The shrillness set in when licensed engineer’s union Federal Secretary Steve Purvinas kicked an own goal by reportedly urging people to avoid making Christmas holiday bookings on Qantas.
If we are talking domestic holidays that is like saying load up the family car and drive to the Gold Coast (and risk dying on the roads) or take the ferry to Tasmania, which isn’t such a bad idea at all.
The fact is that it is Qantas/Jetstar or the highway, because Virgin Australia has no ambitions nor capacity to suddenly put on more or larger jets, and its load factors are already exceptionally high.
And Tiger is still in a period of self enforced irrelevancy, running a token schedule at token fares where it is possible they are continuing to lose money.
But if we are talking international holidays Qantas is already regarded as useless by most passengers, as it has dealt itself out of contention, and continues to make desperate attempts at rewriting history by claiming this is all the result of wicked government owned predators who have so unfairly invested in better newer jets, and then decided to fly them half a day faster to dozens of cities in Europe that Qantas couldn’t find on an atlas while standing up in a phone booth. Ben Sandilands 12.10.11.
Having said that, the lies coming from the management mouths over the past few months and we all have had to endure them over and over again, sooner or later someone was bound to "kick an own goal" out of shear frustration. Overall, SP has done a great job, he has proved he has his members interests at heart..
PPrune is the converted. It doesn't need more preachers.
If you want coverage: occupy the AGM! Many of you are shareholders after all. You may not have the voting rights, but you can get the board and the CEO on camera under pressure and failing to answer questions.
If you want coverage: occupy the AGM! Many of you are shareholders after all. You may not have the voting rights, but you can get the board and the CEO on camera under pressure and failing to answer questions.
Last edited by TIMA9X; 12th Oct 2011 at 15:46.
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Share Parcel Purchase
Everyone should buy a small parcel of shares with full voting rights and then ask some searching questions.Negative gear the shares and claim a tax break as well as sticking it to these buffoons.All it takes is $150
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Tony Tyler (CX CEO in 2010) got all in package (housing/ pension/ bonus etc) of 1.5m AUD
Alan Joyce got, what, 2.9m in 2010 and 5.1m in 2011?
So you could have 2-3 CX CEO's for the price of one QF CEO... And HK is more expensive than Sydney.
Alan Joyce got, what, 2.9m in 2010 and 5.1m in 2011?
So you could have 2-3 CX CEO's for the price of one QF CEO... And HK is more expensive than Sydney.
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Maybe someone should organise a media pass to this AGM and record the way the whole thing will be short sheeted. There is a lot at stake here and the corporate high jinks will be unbelievable.
Can you imagine the way the media will portray anyone who gets heated, any good points raised will be edited out for the 6 o'clock 'gospel' news.
Seems to me that the course has been set, the media is blowing wind into the corporate sails and 90 years of what we all stood for is worth zip.
Today it's all greed and seems to be all about sucking the money out of every opportunity and not thinking about the ongoing viability of the country/state/business/neighbourhood.
Imagine if that was all the founders of any of the great enterprises of this country thought from the get go, these bastards are sucking the life out of years of constructive management and years of people pulling the line and getting Qantas to be recognised the world over.
The dopes who are being sucked into the tried and tested anti union logic being run by the media will also be the first to complain that nothing was done by the unions before Qantas disappeared.
Can you imagine the way the media will portray anyone who gets heated, any good points raised will be edited out for the 6 o'clock 'gospel' news.
Seems to me that the course has been set, the media is blowing wind into the corporate sails and 90 years of what we all stood for is worth zip.
Today it's all greed and seems to be all about sucking the money out of every opportunity and not thinking about the ongoing viability of the country/state/business/neighbourhood.
Imagine if that was all the founders of any of the great enterprises of this country thought from the get go, these bastards are sucking the life out of years of constructive management and years of people pulling the line and getting Qantas to be recognised the world over.
The dopes who are being sucked into the tried and tested anti union logic being run by the media will also be the first to complain that nothing was done by the unions before Qantas disappeared.
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Make Your Vote Count At The A.G.M.
If you can't get to the A.G.M.
If you gave the chairman your proxy vote, he does not have to vote as you have wished.
He can use your vote as he pleases.
Log in to
https://investorcentre.linkmarketser...gin.aspx/Login
Go to the vote link.
Get your HIN number from your shares statement
Give your voting rights to someone who is not the chairman of the meeting, and who will look after your interests.
eg Steve Purvinas or someone who will be there on the date.
This vote overrides any previous forms which you may have mailed in.
If you gave the chairman your proxy vote, he does not have to vote as you have wished.
He can use your vote as he pleases.
Log in to
https://investorcentre.linkmarketser...gin.aspx/Login
Go to the vote link.
Get your HIN number from your shares statement
Give your voting rights to someone who is not the chairman of the meeting, and who will look after your interests.
eg Steve Purvinas or someone who will be there on the date.
This vote overrides any previous forms which you may have mailed in.
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Freehills, the amounts you mention are not the true picture. You are quoting salary. That excludes retention bonuses, OTP bonuses, milestone bonuses, share allocation, consultancy earnings, 'other connected vested interests', generous super, travel and accommodation perks and there is more. It would be therefore rumored thy said person extracted close to 20 mil in the past 12 months from a plethora or methods..
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Qantas pilots to let fly in appeal to shareholders
Qantas pilots to let fly in appeal to shareholders
Qantas pilots to let fly in appeal to shareholders
Ben Schneiders Matt O'sullivan
October 13, 2011
PILOTS will appeal directly to Qantas shareholders to vote down the airline's remuneration report and also vote against the re-election of four directors.
In a new campaign to start today, the Australian and International Pilots Association will
launch a website, qantasshareholders.com, which will tell shareholders how to assign a proxy and vote against key motions at the October 28 annual meeting.
Advertisement: Story continues below
The association's vice-president, Richard Woodward, said the union had received support from the public and disgruntled shareholders and now wanted to harness this.
''We are genuinely trying to get the remuneration package overturned,'' he said. ''Our pilots are incredibly concerned about the fact they've been blamed for the downturn at Qantas while at the same time Alan Joyce and his team have rewarded themselves with outrageous pay rises.''
Qantas pilots to let fly in appeal to shareholders
Ben Schneiders Matt O'sullivan
October 13, 2011
PILOTS will appeal directly to Qantas shareholders to vote down the airline's remuneration report and also vote against the re-election of four directors.
In a new campaign to start today, the Australian and International Pilots Association will
launch a website, qantasshareholders.com, which will tell shareholders how to assign a proxy and vote against key motions at the October 28 annual meeting.
Advertisement: Story continues below
The association's vice-president, Richard Woodward, said the union had received support from the public and disgruntled shareholders and now wanted to harness this.
''We are genuinely trying to get the remuneration package overturned,'' he said. ''Our pilots are incredibly concerned about the fact they've been blamed for the downturn at Qantas while at the same time Alan Joyce and his team have rewarded themselves with outrageous pay rises.''
Last edited by TIMA9X; 12th Oct 2011 at 14:52.
Meanwhile - over at ANZ Bank (a company that does pay a healthy dividend and whose share price is not at an all time low) - there has been an executive pay freeze.
I know little else of ANZ Bank, but this single gesture must surely give both it's employees and shareholders great hope.
QANTAS CEO & board -hang your heads in shame.
I know little else of ANZ Bank, but this single gesture must surely give both it's employees and shareholders great hope.
QANTAS CEO & board -hang your heads in shame.
Give your voting rights to someone who is not the chairman of the meeting, and who will look after your interests.
If you vote against the resolutions on the proxy form, that's the way your vote is counted, regardless of who you assign the proxy to.
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Can someone help me re this proxy vote.
Im doing it online at the moment.
When it asks me to "appoint another person to vote on my behalf", it then
gives me a list of names to select, then at the bottom, it has an option to
nominate an alternate proxy holder. Who's name do I put there??
Is there a particular person we need to put up there?
Appreciate your advice!
Im doing it online at the moment.
When it asks me to "appoint another person to vote on my behalf", it then
gives me a list of names to select, then at the bottom, it has an option to
nominate an alternate proxy holder. Who's name do I put there??
Is there a particular person we need to put up there?
Appreciate your advice!
AIPA Shareholders
The ballots came out weeks ago and more than half the people have returned them/ too little too late
The ballots came out weeks ago and more than half the people have returned them/ too little too late
The ballots came out weeks ago and more than half the people have returned them/ too little too late
Shareholders have until 11:00am (AEDST) on October 26th to return their ballot paper to the share registry.
Don't think it not worth the effort. It's the message that your vote carries that is important.