Qantas-October 28th
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Octagenarian Point of View
My mum is 80 and believes that the Telegraph is trash.
Our family has been in aviation for three generations and all my aged Uncles are incensed by what is happening to Qantas.
They are all conservative people and blame it all on Qantas management.
You can only fool some of the people......
Our family has been in aviation for three generations and all my aged Uncles are incensed by what is happening to Qantas.
They are all conservative people and blame it all on Qantas management.
You can only fool some of the people......
From gobbledock
Unfortunately I think this has been pitched to shareholders as 'us' (management) or 'them' (unions). Shareholders would have huge concern over share price and lack of dividends, but they probably have doubts as to the proposed way forward if the current management was dismissed. Not to mention a natural anti-union bias.
When it all boils down, there is a lack of experienced aviation industry candidates to come onto the board and give it an immediate, if appropriate change of direction. Although Ralph Norris would make a good new CEO.... He probably wouldn't want to go near the airline industry again, though!
'Shareholders, where is your gravy train? You keep voting to give the Execs huge payrises, bonuses and other treats and all they do is take take take with no giving back? Where is YOUR huge silver lining, where are your dividends, where is your share price currently sitting? If the Execs you are trusting can't pull it together in three years what do you think the next three years hold for your precious investments? If the Execs can't control the workforce how can they control your invested funds?'
When it all boils down, there is a lack of experienced aviation industry candidates to come onto the board and give it an immediate, if appropriate change of direction. Although Ralph Norris would make a good new CEO.... He probably wouldn't want to go near the airline industry again, though!
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Ralph Norris would have something tangible to work with however as QF isn't quite dead, yet.
And Daylight Robbery, you make a good point. The CEO is how old, 43, something like that? He has probably not even been through a financial recession since he was born, his ludicrous move into Asia is also evidence of a lack of worldly experience. Wirth-less is probably even less understanding of economics and culture, Gen Y at it's 'wirst'. Watch out tweed coat investors, no new Volvo this year, the kiddies are pissing away all your money!
Lastly, QF threatening to ground international altogether over a few hours stand down by the pilots?? My my what a crock, interesting that things would grind to a halt and they have no contingency plan, shows how vital the service that QF pilots deliver is. What a desperate statement. I hope that even the mentioning from management of pulling such a stunt is raised at the AGM. You can't manage an airline by threat and intimidation, what an obtuse management team (I use the term management team lightheartedly).
And Daylight Robbery, you make a good point. The CEO is how old, 43, something like that? He has probably not even been through a financial recession since he was born, his ludicrous move into Asia is also evidence of a lack of worldly experience. Wirth-less is probably even less understanding of economics and culture, Gen Y at it's 'wirst'. Watch out tweed coat investors, no new Volvo this year, the kiddies are pissing away all your money!
Lastly, QF threatening to ground international altogether over a few hours stand down by the pilots?? My my what a crock, interesting that things would grind to a halt and they have no contingency plan, shows how vital the service that QF pilots deliver is. What a desperate statement. I hope that even the mentioning from management of pulling such a stunt is raised at the AGM. You can't manage an airline by threat and intimidation, what an obtuse management team (I use the term management team lightheartedly).
Last edited by gobbledock; 25th Oct 2011 at 04:24.
When it all boils down, there is a lack of experienced aviation industry candidates to come onto the board and give it an immediate, if appropriate change of direction.
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What about a shelf packer from Aldi, a forklift driver from Bunnings or a council street sweeper from Barcaldine Shire? They would do better, at least they would understand the Australian spirit.
Nunc est bibendum
This was on another thread.
I tell you one thing, it wouldn't surprise me if grounding aircraft domestically in recent times has actually improved the bottom line.I flew nine sectors over four days on the weekend so about 2350 seats all up. I would have less than 100 empty seats across the entirety of the 9 flights. Every flight was close chockers and jumpseat was utilised on a number of occasions.
So 'winning' all round for QF. Get to paint the unions as baddies who forced the groundings of aeroplanes but still manage to carry the same number of passengers on few flights and therefore less costs of crew pay- particularly for non 737 flights, less fuel and airways charges as well.
At the moment having choc-a-block flights must be filling the coffers of VA.
So 'winning' all round for QF. Get to paint the unions as baddies who forced the groundings of aeroplanes but still manage to carry the same number of passengers on few flights and therefore less costs of crew pay- particularly for non 737 flights, less fuel and airways charges as well.
I tell you one thing, it wouldn't surprise me if grounding aircraft domestically in recent times has actually improved the bottom line.
Lines of Flying have been cancelled involving any number of aircraft, possibly simply to improve the load factor with the added benefit of appearing to be caused by lack of maintenance action due to the engineers lack of cooperation.
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I mentioned this on the engineers thread. Going on strike actually assists Qantas in their turnaround strategy. It gives them reason to ground old, expensive aircraft and then replace that flying with new efficient Jetstar aircraft.
Shutting down long haul ops if Pilots go on strike may seem like a radical approach or even a bluff, but they will do it if necessary and they will have the support of major shareholders. If QF are forced to bite the bullet and shutdown long haul ops, don’t expect it to start up again with the same group of Pilots, engineers and baggage handlers.
If Pilots go on strike, they can basically kiss their jobs goodbye just like 1989. If they don't go on strike, they just need to get busy accepting the fact that things need to change in LH and that change will inevitably result in some Pilot job losses from QF. If those who lose their jobs are willing to be flexible on pay and conditions, there will be plenty of rewarding work for them in other Qantas group airlines. If they are not willing to be flexible, there will be plenty of other takers hungry for those positions.
NP
Shutting down long haul ops if Pilots go on strike may seem like a radical approach or even a bluff, but they will do it if necessary and they will have the support of major shareholders. If QF are forced to bite the bullet and shutdown long haul ops, don’t expect it to start up again with the same group of Pilots, engineers and baggage handlers.
If Pilots go on strike, they can basically kiss their jobs goodbye just like 1989. If they don't go on strike, they just need to get busy accepting the fact that things need to change in LH and that change will inevitably result in some Pilot job losses from QF. If those who lose their jobs are willing to be flexible on pay and conditions, there will be plenty of rewarding work for them in other Qantas group airlines. If they are not willing to be flexible, there will be plenty of other takers hungry for those positions.
NP
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Interesting article on news.com.au
JETSTAR cancelled more domestic flights than Qantas last month, despite the flying kangaroo being hit by ongoing strikes.
But Qantas had the highest number of late-running planes, with just over 80 per cent of domestic flights departing on time.
A report from the Bureau of Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Economics shows Jetstar cancelled 2.1 per cent of flights in September, while Qantas cancelled 1.8 per cent.
The first major Qantas disruptions began on September 20, when more than 4000 Qantas baggage handlers and ground staff stopped work for four hours as part of an ongoing row over pay and conditions.
While Jetstar is a subsidiary of Qantas it has been largely unaffected by the Qantas strikes.
A Jetstar spokeswoman said the cancellation rate in September was due to a combination of reasons, including weather and technical issues.
She said for the year ending June 2011, Jetstar had an average monthly cancellation rate of 1.4 per cent, which was less than all other major airlines.
Virgin Australia had the most on time departures amongst the other major domestic carriers, with nearly 86 per cent of departures on time.
It cancelled 1.7 per cent of domestic flights.
Tiger Airways, which returned to the skies on a reduced schedule in August after a six-week absence, is showing signs it is lifting its game.
More than 91 per cent of its flights arrived on time in September and there were no cancellations.
But it only flew 530 sectors in September, compared to 1577 the same month the previous year.
The airline was previously grounded because of Civil Aviation Safety Authority concerns after pilots flew too low into Melbourne airports on two occasions, as well as wider safety issues it had previously told the airline to address.
Jetstar blamed single runway operations in Sydney and bad weather for its delays.
The report also showed the route between Newcastle and Melbourne was the worst in Australia when it came to flight cancellations.
Nearly 6 per cent of flights from Melbourne to Newcastle were cancelled in September and more than 5 per cent on the reverse route.
Melbourne to Sydney was the second worst, with 4.7 per cent of flights cancelled.
Overall, on time performance averaged 83.2 per cent for on time departures and 82.7 per cent for arrivals - slightly more than the same time last year.
Regional Express had the best on time performance of the participating regional airlines, with 87.5 per cent of departures on time.
Read more: Guess which Australian airline cancelled most flights last month | News.com.au
JETSTAR cancelled more domestic flights than Qantas last month, despite the flying kangaroo being hit by ongoing strikes.
But Qantas had the highest number of late-running planes, with just over 80 per cent of domestic flights departing on time.
A report from the Bureau of Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Economics shows Jetstar cancelled 2.1 per cent of flights in September, while Qantas cancelled 1.8 per cent.
The first major Qantas disruptions began on September 20, when more than 4000 Qantas baggage handlers and ground staff stopped work for four hours as part of an ongoing row over pay and conditions.
While Jetstar is a subsidiary of Qantas it has been largely unaffected by the Qantas strikes.
A Jetstar spokeswoman said the cancellation rate in September was due to a combination of reasons, including weather and technical issues.
She said for the year ending June 2011, Jetstar had an average monthly cancellation rate of 1.4 per cent, which was less than all other major airlines.
Virgin Australia had the most on time departures amongst the other major domestic carriers, with nearly 86 per cent of departures on time.
It cancelled 1.7 per cent of domestic flights.
Tiger Airways, which returned to the skies on a reduced schedule in August after a six-week absence, is showing signs it is lifting its game.
More than 91 per cent of its flights arrived on time in September and there were no cancellations.
But it only flew 530 sectors in September, compared to 1577 the same month the previous year.
The airline was previously grounded because of Civil Aviation Safety Authority concerns after pilots flew too low into Melbourne airports on two occasions, as well as wider safety issues it had previously told the airline to address.
Jetstar blamed single runway operations in Sydney and bad weather for its delays.
The report also showed the route between Newcastle and Melbourne was the worst in Australia when it came to flight cancellations.
Nearly 6 per cent of flights from Melbourne to Newcastle were cancelled in September and more than 5 per cent on the reverse route.
Melbourne to Sydney was the second worst, with 4.7 per cent of flights cancelled.
Overall, on time performance averaged 83.2 per cent for on time departures and 82.7 per cent for arrivals - slightly more than the same time last year.
Regional Express had the best on time performance of the participating regional airlines, with 87.5 per cent of departures on time.
Read more: Guess which Australian airline cancelled most flights last month | News.com.au
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If QF are forced to bite the bullet and shutdown long haul ops, don’t expect it to start up again with the same group of Pilots, engineers and baggage handlers.
There's that pesky FWA, and the fact that the 3 unions are taking PIA...the P standing for protected. They would have to completely shut down longhaul, and some of shorthaul. Sort of a reverse 1989.
So I guess they would have to make the best part of 5000 staff redundant. So at approx 100k each for redundancy pay, thats 500mil. But what's another 500mil when you've just splashed over 1Bil on some fancy new A320's.
Then they would have to refund a full years worth of pre sold tickets to customers. I'd hate to think how much that would be.
Then they would have the whole long haul fleet sitting up against the fence for how long? I suppose they could repaint them silver, but they've made redundant all the pilots that could fly the 767's, 747's, A380's.
They could start a new airline and hope that the redundant pilots would be desperate to come back under lower t&c. They couldn't call it Qantas, because they have shut that down. I've thought of a great new name for this new airline...NP Troll Airlines.
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OCCUPY QANTAS
The Qantas board will probably be wondering tomorrow morning why they ever agreed to hold their annual shareholder meeting at a university campus.
With the Australian Shareholders' Association raring to grill chairman Leigh Clifford on remuneration and several unions keen to spill the board, the Occupy Sydney band of protesters now plan to make an appearance at the University of NSW's Sir John Clancy Auditorium for the meeting.
Peter Somerville of the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association helped rally support last week at the Occupy Sydney protest in Martin Place, which had a large contingent of students.
Somerville received his best reaction from the crowd when he mentioned the 71 per cent pay rise awarded to Qantas's chief executive, Alan Joyce, last financial year.
Posted by NewPiper
If Pilots go on strike, they can basically kiss their jobs goodbye just like 1989.
If Pilots go on strike, they can basically kiss their jobs goodbye just like 1989.
When it all boils down, there is a lack of experienced aviation industry candidates to come onto the board and give it an immediate, if appropriate change of direction.
Just recently over a few beers with other former staff, we were discussing who we knew of who would be good board members. These were former QF staff only because we didn't know of old TN guys.
The problem is, having 1, 2 or 3 won't make a difference unless the Chairman was removed along with some long standing members e.g. Jimmy Bowtie.
The names suggested were IT and Sales but one very experienced operational guy as well.
Ian Riddell: Ian Riddell | SITA.aero
Peter Stainlay: Stainlay Consulting - Who we are
David Forsyth: David Forsyth, Chairman | Airservices
Julian Hercus - Stock Quotes & Company News | Reuters.com
Brian Wild - was the executive Chairman of the JetSet Travel Grp
All of them apparently good people with plenty of experience in the business world (not just board members). All left the airline from senior positions and they are all, Australians.
Perhaps some other names could be suggested.
They could start a new airline and hope that the redundant pilots would be desperate to come back under lower t&c. They couldn't call it Qantas, because they have shut that down.
Come on leave NewPiper alone, I need a laugh now and again, his ignorance is only surpassed by that of senior Q management. Bluff and Bull$hit doesn't crew aircraft, no amount of HR spiv will close the door and start the engines.
Talking to a few J* pilots it appears many of the flights being cancelled are due to no crew (pilots) being available to operate then. Just as Cathay is finding out, experienced pilots will not hang around when there is something better on offer. Of the 100 or so pilots who have resigned (not including retirees) Qantas in recent years only around 25% have gone to work for JetStar, the rest have just seen the despair of no prospects, no future and no promotion and headed off to the middle east etc.
I'm sure NP and his mates thought they could get these boys and girls bluffed to work for cr@p with J* but Psychology101 has not worked and we are just feeding well trained crews to the competition all over the world.
Used car salesmen, the lot of them.
Talking to a few J* pilots it appears many of the flights being cancelled are due to no crew (pilots) being available to operate then. Just as Cathay is finding out, experienced pilots will not hang around when there is something better on offer. Of the 100 or so pilots who have resigned (not including retirees) Qantas in recent years only around 25% have gone to work for JetStar, the rest have just seen the despair of no prospects, no future and no promotion and headed off to the middle east etc.
I'm sure NP and his mates thought they could get these boys and girls bluffed to work for cr@p with J* but Psychology101 has not worked and we are just feeding well trained crews to the competition all over the world.
Used car salesmen, the lot of them.
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A bit concerned about the Occupy people going to the agm. Despite my sympathy for the movement in general some are just outright anarchists looking for a venue. We need a presence but must be orderly with a clear message.
Because if there is any hint of trouble you can bet on the spin and bulldust being written up right now.
Union thugs blah blah....
Because if there is any hint of trouble you can bet on the spin and bulldust being written up right now.
Union thugs blah blah....
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A bit concerned about the Occupy people going to the agm
I don't know who is providing strategic advice to Joyce and the Qantas board but announcing a $2 million pay rise for the chief executive, to $5 million a year, within a month of announcing 1000 staff layoffs was a corporate brain explosion. It's not the only misstep. my bold pretty much sums up the feeling out there.
Read more: Qantas Locked In Battle With Unions
Read more: Qantas Locked In Battle With Unions
It's very possible the two major Q investors may be feeling the pressure as well, if they are seen as being too supportive of the board as it may damage their reputation in the next financial year.. for example, Qantas losing market share to Virgin and/or a profits downgrade warning in the next couple of months.....
JP Morgan for example would put themselves between a rock and a hard place and possibly the person/s who manage the Q investment portfolio losing his/her job/s.
Last edited by TIMA9X; 26th Oct 2011 at 01:02.
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Never get between an investment bank and a pile of money because that is all they are interested in and can change tactics on a whim if that suits their cause. Some in the US are currently facing the prospect of prison which is a great outcome.
You can also bet they are playing both sides and will have a plan B. Has anyone noticed large chunks of DJ shares changing hands lately????
What beats me is why they seem to be accepting the Rat spin unless they know something no one else does. Don't believe for a moment that fully informed market actually exists.
You can also bet they are playing both sides and will have a plan B. Has anyone noticed large chunks of DJ shares changing hands lately????
What beats me is why they seem to be accepting the Rat spin unless they know something no one else does. Don't believe for a moment that fully informed market actually exists.
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ohallen , dead right. Never think any large investor / bank has any sentimentality , nationalistic or otherwise altruistic notions in the investments it makes. If they can screw out a poofteenth of a percentage point higher return by doing over whoever stands in the way, they will.
Also, imho any meaningful gov't or employee intervention on the share register by way of ownership at this time is as likely as me giving birth to the next messiah.
Also, imho any meaningful gov't or employee intervention on the share register by way of ownership at this time is as likely as me giving birth to the next messiah.