REX Resignations
Thread Starter
Basically it's a failure of a check. Some REX Check Captains (not all) excel at failing candidates for the most trivial reasons. The worst appear to be some training Captains upgrading to Check Captain themselves. With CASA in the jump seat they tend to be extra pedantic, just to be on the safe side. 
Is it any wonder some pilots can't wait to leave!
Is it any wonder some pilots can't wait to leave!
Last edited by KRUSTY 34; 7th Oct 2011 at 06:14. Reason: A wink probably says it better
Thanks Krusty, that explains it.
Hmmm that petty pedantic failing of people sounds like a damn poor way to run a C & T dept and a damn good way to piss off crews.
I thought the aim was to ensure a flt dept and crews that can work in a realistic, professional fashion in the real world and maintain a very high level of safety whilst doing it.
Hmmm then again maybe I'm not being realistic.
Hmmm that petty pedantic failing of people sounds like a damn poor way to run a C & T dept and a damn good way to piss off crews.
I thought the aim was to ensure a flt dept and crews that can work in a realistic, professional fashion in the real world and maintain a very high level of safety whilst doing it.
Hmmm then again maybe I'm not being realistic.
Last edited by aussie027; 7th Oct 2011 at 09:47.
Slight drift:
Growing up in a regional area I looked at REX as a career when I started training, even looked at the cadet program when it first started. I thought long term in a regional was a prospect, not being a city person.
I even remember going to YLIS as a kid and going on the free local flight they put on the as a promotion the first day they started services there. Seems those days are long gone on all fronts, for guests and crew.
Its sad to see this going the way it is
Growing up in a regional area I looked at REX as a career when I started training, even looked at the cadet program when it first started. I thought long term in a regional was a prospect, not being a city person.
I even remember going to YLIS as a kid and going on the free local flight they put on the as a promotion the first day they started services there. Seems those days are long gone on all fronts, for guests and crew.
Its sad to see this going the way it is
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Is it really go this way, or is PPRUNE just a whinge-fest for disgruntled employees. I've never worked in any company that didn't have it share of complainers. It didn't necessarily mean the company was a rotten egg though. 
Thread Starter
A valid point AirbourneSoon, but there's more to the story.
I've always given credit were due. LKH has done a magnificent job in insuring the airline against the ravages of debt and excess. This has provided employees with a level of job security possibly unmatched by many companies, and dare I say most airlines. This has allowed REX to reduce it's services in the past without going to the wall, but ironically if the cuts around the corner are deep and prolonged enough, redundancies in people will result. REX's low debt therefore is not a panacea for a content workplace.
The reason I still work for REX is that I love my job, and I love the people I work with. That's why I (and many others) become frustrated when we see good people walking out the door for no other reason than they feel unappreciated. This is particularly galling when we see opportunities lost due to an unwillingness by the company to invest in it's people, and I don't mean spending money on computer based courses, endless ops notices, or on a Checking system that continually adds to a pilot's obligations for no other reason than to appease an incompetent regulator.
And it's about more than money, but realistically if REX doesn't a least attempt to compete for experienced pilots, it will be left with KRUSTY old guys like myself and a bunch of green kids. And that won't be enough!
REX are about to slash services, sure as night follows day. This will lead to stress and anguish not only for our customers, but for our frontline staff. These people are ultimately the ones who pay the price for management's complete failure to address this ongoing problem.
So hopefully you see my aspirational friend, my motives and those of others having a "whinge" may not be as destructive as some may think.
I've always given credit were due. LKH has done a magnificent job in insuring the airline against the ravages of debt and excess. This has provided employees with a level of job security possibly unmatched by many companies, and dare I say most airlines. This has allowed REX to reduce it's services in the past without going to the wall, but ironically if the cuts around the corner are deep and prolonged enough, redundancies in people will result. REX's low debt therefore is not a panacea for a content workplace.
The reason I still work for REX is that I love my job, and I love the people I work with. That's why I (and many others) become frustrated when we see good people walking out the door for no other reason than they feel unappreciated. This is particularly galling when we see opportunities lost due to an unwillingness by the company to invest in it's people, and I don't mean spending money on computer based courses, endless ops notices, or on a Checking system that continually adds to a pilot's obligations for no other reason than to appease an incompetent regulator.
And it's about more than money, but realistically if REX doesn't a least attempt to compete for experienced pilots, it will be left with KRUSTY old guys like myself and a bunch of green kids. And that won't be enough!
REX are about to slash services, sure as night follows day. This will lead to stress and anguish not only for our customers, but for our frontline staff. These people are ultimately the ones who pay the price for management's complete failure to address this ongoing problem.
So hopefully you see my aspirational friend, my motives and those of others having a "whinge" may not be as destructive as some may think.
Krusty, well said.
I for one look forward to your posts as it gives me some real world info from someone on the front line of the company on a long term basis who knows from the inside what is going on and why as opposed to all the half cocked rumours on this site about companies from people who heard something from a friend of a friend who works there etc.
Keep it up.
I for one look forward to your posts as it gives me some real world info from someone on the front line of the company on a long term basis who knows from the inside what is going on and why as opposed to all the half cocked rumours on this site about companies from people who heard something from a friend of a friend who works there etc.
Keep it up.
Thread Starter
Rumour 'round the Crew Room. In addition to some long serving Check and Trainers, both Sydney and Melbourne Flight Operations Managers have resigned!
Anyone know more?
Anyone know more?
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Good work Krusty.
However, I must point out that it's just a different shade of brown at nearly every other airline. Note I say "nearly".
I know the "feeling" is warm and fuzzy at VA, but they had better start making $$$$ instead of headlines or there will be a lot more pain heading that way IMHO. Airlines/any business can't keep running at a loss forever. I may be wrong, hope I am for the cast of thousands at VA, but ....
Pprune is full of conspiracy theorists and nay sayers. Read the pages of archives. Same crap, different day.
However, I must point out that it's just a different shade of brown at nearly every other airline. Note I say "nearly".
I know the "feeling" is warm and fuzzy at VA, but they had better start making $$$$ instead of headlines or there will be a lot more pain heading that way IMHO. Airlines/any business can't keep running at a loss forever. I may be wrong, hope I am for the cast of thousands at VA, but ....
Pprune is full of conspiracy theorists and nay sayers. Read the pages of archives. Same crap, different day.
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Krusty,
It is true buddy, BOTH the Melbourne FOM AND the Sydney FOM have resigned!!
Having worked at REX for a number of years I have the upmost respect for the people I have had the privilege and honour to work alongside and fly with and it is with a hint of sadness that I am moving on to another carrier. With reference to your opening post, I do hold big fears for the future of the company if they don't change their objective view of how they interact with it's frontline staff and as one check and training captain said to me "who's going to turn the lights off when everyones gone?". I really hope they do turn things around for themselves otherwise the good men and women who are still there and keeping REX on its feet will certainly have a grim future ahead of them.
I think all the frontline staff know this and hence the reason for the "evacuate, evacuate, unfasten seatbelts, sit and jump, move straight towards the front end of that new jet / turboprop!"
Obviously I won't say who I am but I'm sure I have flown with you before Krusty so all the best to you buddy and good luck
It is true buddy, BOTH the Melbourne FOM AND the Sydney FOM have resigned!!
Having worked at REX for a number of years I have the upmost respect for the people I have had the privilege and honour to work alongside and fly with and it is with a hint of sadness that I am moving on to another carrier. With reference to your opening post, I do hold big fears for the future of the company if they don't change their objective view of how they interact with it's frontline staff and as one check and training captain said to me "who's going to turn the lights off when everyones gone?". I really hope they do turn things around for themselves otherwise the good men and women who are still there and keeping REX on its feet will certainly have a grim future ahead of them.
I think all the frontline staff know this and hence the reason for the "evacuate, evacuate, unfasten seatbelts, sit and jump, move straight towards the front end of that new jet / turboprop!"
Obviously I won't say who I am but I'm sure I have flown with you before Krusty so all the best to you buddy and good luck
Thread Starter
Thank's mate.
"Those who fail to learn from the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them".
Problem is though, these guys really do believe they made the right decisions last time. "See, the sky didn't fall!", but as Hugh Dowding famously said, "It was a damn close run thing".
What REX were doing of course was simply delaying the inevitable. I now have a really bad feeling about this.
"Those who fail to learn from the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them".
Problem is though, these guys really do believe they made the right decisions last time. "See, the sky didn't fall!", but as Hugh Dowding famously said, "It was a damn close run thing".
What REX were doing of course was simply delaying the inevitable. I now have a really bad feeling about this.
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Given that there is some 18 ATRs coming and they are all new jobs in the industry, wouldn't it make sense that Rex would have lost more people? New aircraft, twice the size so extra $, grass is greener syndrome.
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I can tell you that many people have had multiple interviews and many are looking to 'evacuate' so to speak.
Its simple, if they had not tainted the staff so bad over the past handfull of years then people would not have left. Lack of resources and workload in Sydney; the attitude of upper management toward pilots and staff are dramatically taking there toll.
Its hard to be a manager, but its even harder to be a good manager. If they want you to stay they will provide incentive to do so. SIMPLE. But its a little too late for a very small show of gratitude if they can muster the effort to do so.
Its easy to prove this, as anyone in upper management will not take a pay cut to do their current "management" job........ Touche....
Rex refuses to compete with salaries and/or lifestyle; as I have said before, it has relied on flying is a "fun job" principle for too long. Its a business, yes, but a business does not exist for very long without competent staff!
Its simple, if they had not tainted the staff so bad over the past handfull of years then people would not have left. Lack of resources and workload in Sydney; the attitude of upper management toward pilots and staff are dramatically taking there toll.
Its hard to be a manager, but its even harder to be a good manager. If they want you to stay they will provide incentive to do so. SIMPLE. But its a little too late for a very small show of gratitude if they can muster the effort to do so.
Its easy to prove this, as anyone in upper management will not take a pay cut to do their current "management" job........ Touche....
Rex refuses to compete with salaries and/or lifestyle; as I have said before, it has relied on flying is a "fun job" principle for too long. Its a business, yes, but a business does not exist for very long without competent staff!
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I would go so far to say that I would have stayed for the same money, or maybe just a little extra, IF I had felt appreciated. NH is the wrong person to be a CP as he has NO people skills at all. None. LKH thinks pilots are all greedy and just "want to fly the big shiny jet", so from that point of view what chance does the company have in 'good times'. Sure people will smile and wave at you when they feel thier jobs are precious, but given the opportunity they're out the door. 13 resignations in one week is a sign. Losing both Sydney and Melbourne Flight Operations Mangers in one go, expreienced pilots, check and training, Training etc....
I'm sure management are looking outward and saying these pilots are leaving to fly new jets, RATHER than looking inwards and asking the question, "is there anything I might be conributing to this".
The attitude of some C&T Captains in the sim also goes a long way to pissing people off. SOC'd for questionable issues and applying ignorant "I'm right your wrong" assessments, won't encourage improvement, it only encourages resentment and that is what you are seeing now.
I will acknowledge the excellent skills of management to making the company profitable, but at what cost. When you rather see your skill set walk out the door not for the want of money perse but for a little appreciation in the everyday, a little professional courtesy and respect, then the ulimate price will be paid with a small brass plaque on the side of a hill listing about 30 names.
I will watch this post to see my ex fellow pilots thoughts and how far off the mark I am.
Over to you Blue Leader
I'm sure management are looking outward and saying these pilots are leaving to fly new jets, RATHER than looking inwards and asking the question, "is there anything I might be conributing to this".
The attitude of some C&T Captains in the sim also goes a long way to pissing people off. SOC'd for questionable issues and applying ignorant "I'm right your wrong" assessments, won't encourage improvement, it only encourages resentment and that is what you are seeing now.
I will acknowledge the excellent skills of management to making the company profitable, but at what cost. When you rather see your skill set walk out the door not for the want of money perse but for a little appreciation in the everyday, a little professional courtesy and respect, then the ulimate price will be paid with a small brass plaque on the side of a hill listing about 30 names.
I will watch this post to see my ex fellow pilots thoughts and how far off the mark I am.
Over to you Blue Leader
What can REX do to stop pilots moving? Not much being offered on this thread.
Don't get me wrong, there are all valid opinions on here and REX need to do something to stop the attrition, but what?
Pay, many have said that's not the main reason.
Krusty, from what I have heard about recent PC meetings the PC themselves have said that they are happy with the pay and do not want it changed? You said it yourself, it's more than just the money, but what more does it take?
How do you want management to be more supportive? Genuine question, let's face it, managament ain't going to go, but maybe they can change if they knew how to, if they understood what the front line staff needed/wanted.
Most pilots are whingers, let's face it, AirborneSoon said it. Change is as good as a holiday and many are moving JUST for change, as Normasars said, grass may look greener but it still needs mowing, the ATR gig, could be classified as side ways step, it's moving to an unknown quantity at the moment, yet guys are moving to a riskier operation in terms of stability at this stage. Yes, it probably will be a huge success but at this point.....
So again, what does it take guys, if money is not it. Bare in mind too, extra days off per roster equals more money as more crews are required to allow such a change. So...
I agree the recent resignations are only the beginning so what are the answers?
Don't get me wrong, there are all valid opinions on here and REX need to do something to stop the attrition, but what?
Pay, many have said that's not the main reason.
Krusty, from what I have heard about recent PC meetings the PC themselves have said that they are happy with the pay and do not want it changed? You said it yourself, it's more than just the money, but what more does it take?
How do you want management to be more supportive? Genuine question, let's face it, managament ain't going to go, but maybe they can change if they knew how to, if they understood what the front line staff needed/wanted.
Most pilots are whingers, let's face it, AirborneSoon said it. Change is as good as a holiday and many are moving JUST for change, as Normasars said, grass may look greener but it still needs mowing, the ATR gig, could be classified as side ways step, it's moving to an unknown quantity at the moment, yet guys are moving to a riskier operation in terms of stability at this stage. Yes, it probably will be a huge success but at this point.....
So again, what does it take guys, if money is not it. Bare in mind too, extra days off per roster equals more money as more crews are required to allow such a change. So...
I agree the recent resignations are only the beginning so what are the answers?
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SUC...
what is the point of trying to answer these questions for management?
They don't/won't listen. They haven't in thew past! I recall about 4 years ago when the REXPC put a presentation to the board. The board (ie Jim Davis) replied , dismissing EVERY SINGLE VALID POINT that the REXPC had made, and refused to acknowledge any solutions put forward by them.
For years, the management have NOT listened to their frontline troops, or even the AFAP/REXPC, why would now be any different?
what is the point of trying to answer these questions for management?
They don't/won't listen. They haven't in thew past! I recall about 4 years ago when the REXPC put a presentation to the board. The board (ie Jim Davis) replied , dismissing EVERY SINGLE VALID POINT that the REXPC had made, and refused to acknowledge any solutions put forward by them.
For years, the management have NOT listened to their frontline troops, or even the AFAP/REXPC, why would now be any different?
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Let me try to answer this. It will be both easy and hard.
Yes, but only because alot feel powerless against a managment that has been unreasonable in both EBA negotiations and general respect and ability to compromise with front line staff. Resources, lesuire time/min rest, pay, attitude etc all seem to be in a melting pot, unfortunately being driven by LKH's "do as I say" no compromise attitude, which filters through the way managment deal with people in general.
So when pilots "whinge" there usually is more than one reason for it. A small percentage are just never satisfied, but the VAST majority have seen the problems first hand and also more often than not seen indirectly the vindictivness and unreasonable solutions that add to workload rather than produce efficiency.
LOL, If they understood!!!! hahahahahahaha they have been line pilots, and in the case of the nfom he still is flying a small amount too, although not as much so flying seems to be "fun" again possibly rather than frustrating? Either way, these people know the issues, but choose to overcomplicate them or in the most ingnorant answer to problems get "accounts" to work a solution instead of common sense approach.....remember the "counting the mints" episodes to name but one example... or the buying a cheap tug off ebay, only for its days to be numbered and more expensive in the long run! Who gets in trouble for these decisions? seems like managment dont, but the frustration is passed to front line crews/staff!
Hmmmm, how can they make it better?! lets see....... how about not fudging around delaying the EBA negotiations and deliberatly stonewalling idea's.... how about providing a better rostering system e.g 4 on 4 off? How about checking managment staff like crews get checked..... accountability on their behalf (Dare them to provide feedback forms for there performance from staff?!) How about not being vindictive and decietful with regards to crew! i.e. Tony Richards case for example...... get that ****e off the websites! How about not berating crew in the friday files!
Where do they start, easy, start on themselves, real change comes from introspection and realistic measurement of performance...... attrition rates and staff morale SHOULD be a major sign to these people that they are not meeting standards!
Generally this may be true, but its always a factor. I speak for myself when I say a modest increase in pay and more time off would have had me reconsider my departure. For me at my stage in life pay is important and should be on par (bank managers dont care about how cool your job is and neither do wives and kids).
But lifestyle is very important, rosters in sydney are a joke compared to ADL or WGA. 2 - 3 minrest overnights a week compared to 2 a month for most other bases! come on.....
We get one life to live and working is great, but also needs to be balanced so you feel that you can be normal rather than "the pilot guy" who does nothing else..... yawn.
Nothing on this thread! Man please; this is showing the underlying problem, friction between managment goals and staff expectations. Also balance that up with the conditions in sydney for example and you have a clear indication that peoples viewpoint need to change..... Staff such as pilots, will leave because they are professionals, who work quite hard in maintaining their proficiency to do the job, and as professionals should have a little more appreciation by their employer. Its a two way street and it must also be given back by staff, in which for the most part they do! The problem is the undercutting of wages is a small % of the real problem but alas is still a real problem. Rex need to be competative both dollar wise and lesuire wise as well as ground support.
Its a case of a little too late, the damage has been done in terms of frustrating the staff who have been the backbone of this company. Even cadets are leaving! What does that say to you? Sadly, if you cant work it out managers then you really shouldnt be managers! Really, What do you expect? You have a business to run but part of being a manager is to be able to liase between business needs and connected to that is valued staff, which result in increased man hours and productivity not to mention moral, which would decrease your attrition rates!
Conclusion:
People are frustrated. Frustration due to resources, rosters, respect, pay and conditions, negotiations, ground support etc.
"A stitch in time saves nine", in which Rex is clearly not very good at interpreting into a business plan.
At this stage, many are on hold files and MANY are looking to go. to stop this from happening DRASTIC change is needed. This either means massive increases in time off or big incentive pay to keep people moving upwards to conditions they definately deserve! Think at least 20 - 30% increase in base salary.
I bet CH really regrets saying "so long as we get 3 years out of you", an attitude that really was and still is short sighted.
Most pilots are whingers, let's face it.....
So when pilots "whinge" there usually is more than one reason for it. A small percentage are just never satisfied, but the VAST majority have seen the problems first hand and also more often than not seen indirectly the vindictivness and unreasonable solutions that add to workload rather than produce efficiency.
How do you want management to be more supportive? ....but maybe they can change if they knew how to, if they understood what the front line staff needed/wanted.... ...so what are the answers?
Hmmmm, how can they make it better?! lets see....... how about not fudging around delaying the EBA negotiations and deliberatly stonewalling idea's.... how about providing a better rostering system e.g 4 on 4 off? How about checking managment staff like crews get checked..... accountability on their behalf (Dare them to provide feedback forms for there performance from staff?!) How about not being vindictive and decietful with regards to crew! i.e. Tony Richards case for example...... get that ****e off the websites! How about not berating crew in the friday files!
Where do they start, easy, start on themselves, real change comes from introspection and realistic measurement of performance...... attrition rates and staff morale SHOULD be a major sign to these people that they are not meeting standards!
Pay, many have said that's not the main reason.
But lifestyle is very important, rosters in sydney are a joke compared to ADL or WGA. 2 - 3 minrest overnights a week compared to 2 a month for most other bases! come on.....
We get one life to live and working is great, but also needs to be balanced so you feel that you can be normal rather than "the pilot guy" who does nothing else..... yawn.
What can REX do to stop pilots moving? Not much being offered on this thread.Don't get me wrong, there are all valid opinions on here and REX need to do something to stop the attrition, but what?
Its a case of a little too late, the damage has been done in terms of frustrating the staff who have been the backbone of this company. Even cadets are leaving! What does that say to you? Sadly, if you cant work it out managers then you really shouldnt be managers! Really, What do you expect? You have a business to run but part of being a manager is to be able to liase between business needs and connected to that is valued staff, which result in increased man hours and productivity not to mention moral, which would decrease your attrition rates!
Conclusion:
People are frustrated. Frustration due to resources, rosters, respect, pay and conditions, negotiations, ground support etc.
"A stitch in time saves nine", in which Rex is clearly not very good at interpreting into a business plan.
At this stage, many are on hold files and MANY are looking to go. to stop this from happening DRASTIC change is needed. This either means massive increases in time off or big incentive pay to keep people moving upwards to conditions they definately deserve! Think at least 20 - 30% increase in base salary.
I bet CH really regrets saying "so long as we get 3 years out of you", an attitude that really was and still is short sighted.
Last edited by jibba_jabba; 14th Oct 2011 at 02:46.
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Yes Appache you nailed it in one. As all the posts so far present the case in point. Management won't listen. The attitude to the PC representation, is just one. It is about HOW 'you', are treated in conversation, discussion, day to day attitudes to requests, complaints, etc.... YOu know sometimes when you are asked a question and you give you answer, that your answer was never really of interest in the first place. "I've heard what you have said, now let me tell you what YOU think". I think that is why people are leaving, not for money, not for a change of scenery.
Now, if someone was good enough to direct current managment to this post, perhaps if they pulled thier collective heads out of the arses, the answer would (possibly) be clear. You can reason with someone who is stupid but you cant reason with someone who is arrogant.
Now, if someone was good enough to direct current managment to this post, perhaps if they pulled thier collective heads out of the arses, the answer would (possibly) be clear. You can reason with someone who is stupid but you cant reason with someone who is arrogant.
what is the point of trying to answer these questions for management?
You don't know who I am!
JJ, thank you for your response, yes I remember some of the stuff you mentioned, but
Think at least 50% increase in base salary.
Agreed REX needs to do something but the above is not it. You yourself said pay is part of the problem, lifestyle is the other, so if REX gave you a 50% pay rise and work you to the bone you'd stay. Before you all attack, I know REX at the moment works the SYD crews already to the bone. Been there done that, but you have alluded to the fact pay will only keep half of you.
Two way street as mentioned.