Decline in Pilot Salaries Survey
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little Johnny was bullied at school etc...unbelievable!!!
When you & your family renounce their Australian Citizenship then maybe you will have some credibility.
BUT it never happens as most of the expatriates want to to retire here - they can't stop humming" I still call Australia Home"
I haven't met one "whinger" that has given up their Australian Citizenship.
Until then don't waste our time with such trivial claims!
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MR MACH, do you still believe in the tooth fairy and santa? 
Slasher, Metro et el Aren't we greatful some people don"t have passports!! 
hahahahahahaa
PS, You must be the only person who believes what they read in press.
Hey MACH, we have lived in Aus, Asia, and many other parts of the world, so we are informed. We also have houses ( we all need holidays houses in Europe, asia and Aus lol
) in many parts of the globe, so don't bring a knife to a gun fight son
And for the record......why would I want to retire there with such insular people. I love Aus, but equally love so many other places and cultures. Australia has NO culture.
Well I'm now off my soap box, time to take the family for Yum Cha
Slasher, Metro et el Aren't we greatful some people don"t have passports!! hahahahahahaaPS, You must be the only person who believes what they read in press.
Hey MACH, we have lived in Aus, Asia, and many other parts of the world, so we are informed. We also have houses ( we all need holidays houses in Europe, asia and Aus lol
) in many parts of the globe, so don't bring a knife to a gun fight son And for the record......why would I want to retire there with such insular people. I love Aus, but equally love so many other places and cultures. Australia has NO culture. Well I'm now off my soap box, time to take the family for Yum Cha
Last edited by 40Deg STH; 1st Oct 2011 at 05:06.
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You must be the only person who believes what they read in press.
Hey MACH, we have lived in Aus, Asia, and many other parts of the world, so we are informed
why would I want to retire there with such insular people.
Australia has NO culture
Most people like you cannot back up your statements with independent data - when you can, then you attain some credibility.
Your responses are opinion with no credible facts or a link to back up your position.
I dont have much interest in this totally subjective nonsense.
But, this still has me laughing:
"Australia has NO culture"
. . . . followed by
"Can you provide us with a link to back up this outlandish statement?"
Your opinion is only valid if you can provide an interweb address thingy to prove it!!!!
Priceless.
But, this still has me laughing:
"Australia has NO culture"
. . . . followed by
"Can you provide us with a link to back up this outlandish statement?"
Your opinion is only valid if you can provide an interweb address thingy to prove it!!!!
Priceless.
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MACH, Sydney morning Hearald was first published 1831
It is quite obvious that you have never heard of the Economist magazine - but then I am not surprised!
Here are some links:
The Economist - World News, Politics, Economics, Business & Finance
The Economist - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Economist Intelligence Unit also does regular surveys:Economist Intelligence Unit
I'd suggest that you write to them and tell them that their survey is wrong.
Th Economist magazine is regarded as the best Economic magazine in the World bar none.
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How about we stick to the topic and have a review of salaries now/then? After some calculation using the RBA inflation adjustment calculator, I arrived at the following: (salary then/inflation adj.)
GA SE pilot 1984: Then $19,000/ Now $46,500.
GA PA31 pilot SAL 1989: $28,000/$50,250.
Heavy Turbo-prop FO 1992 (with O/T): $65,000/$104,000.
Wide body international FO 1997: $135,000/$194,000.
-----------------------------------
Although I never flew SA340 the KD salaries were about (and I am happy to be corrected):
1989 FO: $38,000/$68,200
CA: $52,000/$93,300
I don't know for sure what GA salaries are like now, but I suspect that purchasing power has remained about the same for GA pilots (perhaps even gone up).
GA SE pilot 1984: Then $19,000/ Now $46,500.
GA PA31 pilot SAL 1989: $28,000/$50,250.
Heavy Turbo-prop FO 1992 (with O/T): $65,000/$104,000.
Wide body international FO 1997: $135,000/$194,000.
-----------------------------------
Although I never flew SA340 the KD salaries were about (and I am happy to be corrected):
1989 FO: $38,000/$68,200
CA: $52,000/$93,300
I don't know for sure what GA salaries are like now, but I suspect that purchasing power has remained about the same for GA pilots (perhaps even gone up).
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oicur12.again - I dont have much interest in this totally subjective nonsense.
OBJECTIVITY & SUBJECTIVITY
The difference between these two important ideas is the difference between fact and opinion.
Facts are objective and provably true; however, if no clear facts exist about a topic, then a series of balanced opinions needs to be produced to allow the reader to make up his or her mind; opinions are subjective ideas held by individuals and so are always biased. If unbalanced opinions are presented as if they are facts, they act as propaganda or persuasion, e.g. a newspaper headline might state: "Youngsters are the prime cause of trouble in this area". This is presented as an objective fact but is clearly a subjective opinion.
A good example:
I would never go out in so many parts of Sydney and feel safe.
Objective + Subjective
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I've got a good idea. Why doesn't the aviation industry follow the medical fraternity by protecting their salaries and conditions? They do this by making people do a university degree in medicine before being allowed to practice. The key here is they then are able to manage their industry as opposed to being managed by accountants by limiting the number of entrants in the first place thus avoiding oversupply of doctors. If there is always the minimum number entering you will never give employers the chance to say "if you don't like it then we will shake a tree and another pilot will fall out!" I think that is where our industry has got it wrong.
Framer, you need to get out and venture more outside a little more.
It still cracks me up what you said
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[quote=InTheWeeds;6729280]
Mate, don't judge a whole profession on the opinions of a couple of clowns.
I agree with you that some of the opinions in this thread are astonishing.
What people get paid is based on economics and self worth. If managers can convince you your worthless, then you'll accept T&Cs at less than what the economics can afford. An inflated self worth doesn't change the economics, it only ends up pricing you out of the market.
Quote:
You guys really had my support until I read this thread - this makes you look like a bunch of private school kids sooking that the school tuckshop is out of cream buns...
I hope the media come across this and go to town on you all.
You guys really had my support until I read this thread - this makes you look like a bunch of private school kids sooking that the school tuckshop is out of cream buns...
I hope the media come across this and go to town on you all.
I agree with you that some of the opinions in this thread are astonishing.
What people get paid is based on economics and self worth. If managers can convince you your worthless, then you'll accept T&Cs at less than what the economics can afford. An inflated self worth doesn't change the economics, it only ends up pricing you out of the market.
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Quote:
Australia has NO culture
Can you provide us with a link to back up this outlandish statement?
Australia has NO culture
Can you provide us with a link to back up this outlandish statement?
No Kulcher?
How about the sight and sound of 95,550 screaming Bogans at the MCG on Saturday and you say no culture
Similar thing has happened to Civil Engineers. In 2006 the government claimed there was going to be an engineering shortage. All the uni's expanded their engineering facilities and ended up pumping out more civil engineers than entry level graduate jobs. Prior to the 'civil engineering job shortage' the RTA had a cadetship for civil engineers. First year salary for a graduate engineer was $70k (which was very good money). Now it has dropped down to $30k (the minimum salary a fulltime engineer can earn in Australia) in just 5 years. Because the conditions are so bad for graduate engineers, some have been moving to Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Qatar and Singapore for better conditions.
On the way home from Brisbane the other day I was talking to a Mining Engineer who does the FIFO. Their conditions have been eroding too. A few years ago they would do a 1 week on, 1 week off roster. Now, because there is so many people wanting to work in the mines, they now employ miners to do 2 weeks on 1 week off for the same amount of pay as a miner who does 1 week on, 1 week off.
Some how we need to get rid of those desparate people who are willing to work for less.
On the way home from Brisbane the other day I was talking to a Mining Engineer who does the FIFO. Their conditions have been eroding too. A few years ago they would do a 1 week on, 1 week off roster. Now, because there is so many people wanting to work in the mines, they now employ miners to do 2 weeks on 1 week off for the same amount of pay as a miner who does 1 week on, 1 week off.
Some how we need to get rid of those desparate people who are willing to work for less.
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Some how we need to get rid of those desparate people who are willing to work for less.
Automation started the decline in available jobs & now it is becoming regional as offshoring becomes common place, with business continually looking to cut costs.
At the moment it is a matter of choice in our part of the world. The preferred jobs are seeing more people wanting those jobs than the number of jobs available, causing a decline in T&C's. However there is a trend, even in developed countries, for reducing numbers of jobs & increasing numbers of job seekers. It may not be long before people will take any job, even if the pay is poor, just to put food on the table. And that will even affect the aviation industry, with many people trained to do little else.
There are less & less jobs & more & more people wanting them, as the world population expands.
Come back when you have researched pilot numbers in Oz over the last forty years.
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A greater world population demands more people to serve them and thereby generate more jobs.
Last edited by Oakape; 5th Oct 2011 at 16:06.
A VB 737 Captain gets about $250,000, a QF A380 SO gets $180,000... And you guys have have the audacity to cry poor? Really? You know what the average "non-sky god" in this country earns per year? They don't get to fly for a living they work in shops, clean houses ect.
.
Guys, the bottom line is not really how much you make, but where do you want to live and how much is your "Quality of Life" worth?
Either you accept it or not, OZ and NZ are the BEST countries to live in !
Sure the airlines in the Middle East are paying a good salary and providing all sorts of free bits like accommodation but why? Because they have to, if not, only guys from 3rd world countries would see the move there as a step forward...... in exchange you must be prepared to be away from HOME (your own country), family, friends etc.....in other words live in a golden jail !
Asia isn't better, the money is liveable, but no "FREE BITS". Except in Singapore but Singapore Airlines is the only airline providing an accommodation allowance. Of course not enough to rent a NICE 3 bedrooms apartment but at least it's something.
IN THE WEEDS: are you sure that a VB Capt make $250K? a mate in VB based in BNE as a 73 CAPT told me that his last salary was $201K GROSS so about $135K NET/year. Not bad at all if you ask me don't you agree????
Apart from Doctors, Lawyers and CEOs, do you know many people making $135K NET/year in BNE ? I'm sure you would agree that it is a bloody good salary and that's WITHOUT having to live in a ****ty country in the Middle East or Asia.
Food for thoughts
Either you accept it or not, OZ and NZ are the BEST countries to live in !
Sure the airlines in the Middle East are paying a good salary and providing all sorts of free bits like accommodation but why? Because they have to, if not, only guys from 3rd world countries would see the move there as a step forward...... in exchange you must be prepared to be away from HOME (your own country), family, friends etc.....in other words live in a golden jail !
Asia isn't better, the money is liveable, but no "FREE BITS". Except in Singapore but Singapore Airlines is the only airline providing an accommodation allowance. Of course not enough to rent a NICE 3 bedrooms apartment but at least it's something.
IN THE WEEDS: are you sure that a VB Capt make $250K? a mate in VB based in BNE as a 73 CAPT told me that his last salary was $201K GROSS so about $135K NET/year. Not bad at all if you ask me don't you agree????
Apart from Doctors, Lawyers and CEOs, do you know many people making $135K NET/year in BNE ? I'm sure you would agree that it is a bloody good salary and that's WITHOUT having to live in a ****ty country in the Middle East or Asia.
Food for thoughts
Last edited by 74world; 7th Oct 2011 at 00:25.