Jetstar NZ Pilots vote for Industrial Action
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But surely you only give a t*ss what the NZD is compared to the USD if you are thinking of moving on overseas again. Jetstar NZ is not a contract to make money from, is is currently and will remain the best DEC jet job available in New Zealand. Living in New Zealand and not China, Middle East is personally worth more to me than all these contracts / middle eastern carriers can offer
A quick straw poll of some the kiwis I fly with here in the sandpit suggests that for many of them it's not...which when I got the email asking for expressions of interest for DEC positions was the idea?
I hope your efforts bear fruit, but I still think my time in NZ will be down time between contracts, as I don't think with 2 kids, a mortgage, and a couple of properties spread around the world....I could afford to do otherwise
Quite right too. It should all come down to personal preferences. If your holly grail is $$$$ then avoid NZ and go to China or the ME. However, if you want lifestyle then that's a different matter. I personally would not touch the ME with soaring temps in the summer and the feeling you are a paid guest, or China where the sky is obscured by pollution, and many of the locals are anti -Westerners. In NZ you can live a comfortable, not extravegant lifestyle show affection to your lady on the beach if you wish and have a beer afterwards.. Personal choices....Final comment for all those expat Kiwi's - when your pot of gold is full you'll all come back home.
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Couldn't agree with you more Propoganda.....but I guess that wasn't really you that had an interest in the ME a few years back?
Most of us will change career direction so I can understand your sentiment to the ME now, but try and keep your advice truthful...oh I forgot, that's not your thing.
Most of us will change career direction so I can understand your sentiment to the ME now, but try and keep your advice truthful...oh I forgot, that's not your thing.
atiuta, Not sure what your angle is here. My comments were regarding making personal choices. I made my choice - you obviously made yours to live the EK dream in DXB.
I accept the JQ NZ deal is not good - but the truth of the matter is JQ NZ has provided great opportunities for young pilots in NZ to fly an Airbus many of whom had no previous commercial experience. Its all about lifestyle and personal choices. Nobody is forcing anyone to accept a job.
I accept the JQ NZ deal is not good - but the truth of the matter is JQ NZ has provided great opportunities for young pilots in NZ to fly an Airbus many of whom had no previous commercial experience. Its all about lifestyle and personal choices. Nobody is forcing anyone to accept a job.
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I agree Prop, its all about the lifestyle.
The fact is that the JQ cadets program is still nearly double the income you would get
doing GA. You also gain experience on a type that is used all around the world giving you the flexibility to move should you so choose to.
Its not perfect by any means but its defintely one of the best options out there for new pilots.
The fact is that the JQ cadets program is still nearly double the income you would get
doing GA. You also gain experience on a type that is used all around the world giving you the flexibility to move should you so choose to.
Its not perfect by any means but its defintely one of the best options out there for new pilots.
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All very well PNZ, but what you (and people like you) havent considered beyond the next paycheck is that an FO wage flying A320's used to be able to support a family and a mortgage. It cant now.
At what point in your career would you like to be able to do that? When you have a command? I'll tell ya mate the next global financial cock up is just around the corner and there will be no such thing as a pilot shortage for a very long time. NZ or overseas. I'll tell ya that for free.
At what point in your career would you like to be able to do that? When you have a command? I'll tell ya mate the next global financial cock up is just around the corner and there will be no such thing as a pilot shortage for a very long time. NZ or overseas. I'll tell ya that for free.
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I feel you pain there Waren9. I'm a 4000hr wanna be(1
aid 2:fly a new jet 3:not have a list of MEL's to write off before I even leave the ground and 4:get paid more than a Plumber for the 1st tme in my miserable aviation career). Too much to ask for?
aid 2:fly a new jet 3:not have a list of MEL's to write off before I even leave the ground and 4:get paid more than a Plumber for the 1st tme in my miserable aviation career). Too much to ask for?
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Waren9,
Totally agree that the FO side of things is a disgrace, this is certainly VERY high on our priority list for negotiations with the company. I am not certain that the cadet scheme will continue in the current form. I can't see what advantage it now gives the company. Australian based with a bond and aussie dollars doesn't really justify the cost of extra sims / training etc. This is a good thing overall. The feeling among Jetstar NZ pilots is one of frustration, we are looking to try and gain an improvement in the contract not just for current employees but also for all other pilots in the country.
We are just trying to get the company to realise that the current recruitment problems could be overcome overnight by putting a 'solid' collective contract on the table.
A healthy Jetstar NZ that provides a reasonable option to pilots in New Zealand who for whatever reason can't / don't want to work for Air New Zealand can only be a good thing.
Totally agree that the FO side of things is a disgrace, this is certainly VERY high on our priority list for negotiations with the company. I am not certain that the cadet scheme will continue in the current form. I can't see what advantage it now gives the company. Australian based with a bond and aussie dollars doesn't really justify the cost of extra sims / training etc. This is a good thing overall. The feeling among Jetstar NZ pilots is one of frustration, we are looking to try and gain an improvement in the contract not just for current employees but also for all other pilots in the country.
We are just trying to get the company to realise that the current recruitment problems could be overcome overnight by putting a 'solid' collective contract on the table.
A healthy Jetstar NZ that provides a reasonable option to pilots in New Zealand who for whatever reason can't / don't want to work for Air New Zealand can only be a good thing.
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All very well PNZ, but what you (and people like you) havent considered beyond the next paycheck is that an FO wage flying A320's used to be able to support a family and a mortgage. It cant now.
With that in mind its not a bad thing to take what is the best opportunity for the foreseeable future and then re-evaluate a few years down the track and see at that point what is best suited for you.
other airlines will be at their knees with your zero m/e cm
Pilots have been notified that NZALPA will be commencing industrial action!
Timing of the action and the details of the action have yet to be announced.
With numerous FWA lawsuits, lot's of resignations and now this I am starting to think that Jetstar are not great employers!!
Timing of the action and the details of the action have yet to be announced.
With numerous FWA lawsuits, lot's of resignations and now this I am starting to think that Jetstar are not great employers!!
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"Jetstar are not great employers" - now there's an understatement!
You can't tell a pilot group that, you are very much aware the contract needs improving - then offer a 3% increase on to the base of three years ago. Official CPI is 8.3% over the same period! So we 'give you a net loss of earnings'. That's fair and reasonable!!
The senior management have treated the pilot group with contempt, and understandably have 'lost' them completely - they know that, but don't care.
What they may not know, is the middle management guys are in total support of the pilot group, and they too, are disillusioned with the senior goons in Melbourne. They regurgitate the company line, while 100% behind the rank and file line pilots.
Great business model. Their own workforce hate them. The average Kiwi hates them, but WILL use them INITIALLY to save a dollar - until they get a bad experience and realise: you get what you pay for.
An obsession with cutting costs, has to be balanced against it's effect on revenue. There are way too may examples to list here, of where the loss in revenue exceeds the cost saving. (Economics 101 stuff). Jetstar just don't get that. Or more relevant to the pilots' claim: one cost saving (lower the pilots wage cost) creates other costs that exceed the saving (i.e. the cost of having EBA pilots in hotels in AKL and CHC).
The goons in MEL by their own admission don't have anyone who looks at hotel costs in NZ (Oh there's a cost saving!). So, lets say we have just 2 pilots in AKL and 2 in CHC (usually more, I know). Thats $500 x 4 x 365 = $730,000. Given say 60 pilots in NZ, that could be an average of $12000 per pilot wage rise that would attract more pilots, avoid the hotels, avoid the use of pilots positioning when they could be operating. Not to mention reducing WDO payments, improving moral etc etc. The MEL philosophy is we have made cost savings by paying NZ pilots as little as we have to, and that's that. Again, they just don't get it!
So, cut costs on pilots! That will increase profit - like hell it will!
Great place to work? No!
You can't tell a pilot group that, you are very much aware the contract needs improving - then offer a 3% increase on to the base of three years ago. Official CPI is 8.3% over the same period! So we 'give you a net loss of earnings'. That's fair and reasonable!!
The senior management have treated the pilot group with contempt, and understandably have 'lost' them completely - they know that, but don't care.
What they may not know, is the middle management guys are in total support of the pilot group, and they too, are disillusioned with the senior goons in Melbourne. They regurgitate the company line, while 100% behind the rank and file line pilots.
Great business model. Their own workforce hate them. The average Kiwi hates them, but WILL use them INITIALLY to save a dollar - until they get a bad experience and realise: you get what you pay for.
An obsession with cutting costs, has to be balanced against it's effect on revenue. There are way too may examples to list here, of where the loss in revenue exceeds the cost saving. (Economics 101 stuff). Jetstar just don't get that. Or more relevant to the pilots' claim: one cost saving (lower the pilots wage cost) creates other costs that exceed the saving (i.e. the cost of having EBA pilots in hotels in AKL and CHC).
The goons in MEL by their own admission don't have anyone who looks at hotel costs in NZ (Oh there's a cost saving!). So, lets say we have just 2 pilots in AKL and 2 in CHC (usually more, I know). Thats $500 x 4 x 365 = $730,000. Given say 60 pilots in NZ, that could be an average of $12000 per pilot wage rise that would attract more pilots, avoid the hotels, avoid the use of pilots positioning when they could be operating. Not to mention reducing WDO payments, improving moral etc etc. The MEL philosophy is we have made cost savings by paying NZ pilots as little as we have to, and that's that. Again, they just don't get it!
So, cut costs on pilots! That will increase profit - like hell it will!
Great place to work? No!
Last edited by WB Bach; 3rd Jun 2012 at 05:10.
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Be careful WB Bach. You are using way too much logic!
Looking at reducing costs AND increasing revenue at the same time? Should be left to Mr. Borghetti and Virgin :-)
We should keep it simple for our guys:
Virgin: proactive; Jetstar: reactive.
Virgin: look after their staff, good moral; Jetstar: use their staff, no moral.
But hang on! Jetstar has the best political 'spin' in the industry. E.g. "Total engagement" is sky rocketing!!!! Our staff just love us to death
Looking at reducing costs AND increasing revenue at the same time? Should be left to Mr. Borghetti and Virgin :-)
We should keep it simple for our guys:
Virgin: proactive; Jetstar: reactive.
Virgin: look after their staff, good moral; Jetstar: use their staff, no moral.
But hang on! Jetstar has the best political 'spin' in the industry. E.g. "Total engagement" is sky rocketing!!!! Our staff just love us to death
Virgin: proactive; Jetstar: reactive.
Virgin: look after their staff, good moral; Jetstar: use their staff, no moral.
Virgin: look after their staff, good moral; Jetstar: use their staff, no moral.
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Gate 15L
Fair point.
Was referring to Virgin Oz.
Understand what it's like to be the poor relation in NZ getting the B scale salary. Of course we don't realise that the cost of living is so, so, much cheaper in NZ
. They've obviously never bought fuel or a vehicle in NZ.
Was referring to Virgin Oz.
Understand what it's like to be the poor relation in NZ getting the B scale salary. Of course we don't realise that the cost of living is so, so, much cheaper in NZ
. They've obviously never bought fuel or a vehicle in NZ.