QF029 HKG - LHR turnback?
short flights long nights
Its a worry
Nunc est bibendum
777 command, 343000 gross.
No charts left behind waren, but didn't they take out a localiser on takeoff in Mel on 34? You won't be flying with me as your f/o bypass. I wouldn't live in the Middle East for all the tea in China, or all the sand in Dubai!
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OK... charts/docs shouldnt be left behind but these things can and clearly do happen. Surely 3/4 experienced pilots using FMC data, ACARS, Satphone co-ordination to LHR ATC to see if they will accept them and QF dispatch (or whatever they call it) to validate data for destination and a suitable alternate, Cant be that difficult or un-safe given some 5 or 6 hours to figure it out.
From whats written here the whole thing sounds sloppy. Maybe theres a "back story"
From whats written here the whole thing sounds sloppy. Maybe theres a "back story"
Slamer:
I'm sure you are right Slamer, it could be worked out, however I don't think the legalities and insurance requirements are sufficiently elastic to accommodate you.
To put that another way, try telling a policeman that your car really is roadworthy without lights and windshield wipers because you have "worked out" a way of driving it safely, and let me know what happens
OK... charts/docs shouldnt be left behind but these things can and clearly do happen. Surely 3/4 experienced pilots using FMC data, ACARS, Satphone co-ordination to LHR ATC to see if they will accept them and QF dispatch (or whatever they call it) to validate data for destination and a suitable alternate, Cant be that difficult or un-safe given some 5 or 6 hours to figure it out.
To put that another way, try telling a policeman that your car really is roadworthy without lights and windshield wipers because you have "worked out" a way of driving it safely, and let me know what happens
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So if you were half way to LHR and you discovered your charts (assuming you have them) are just out of date you'd divert because your not legal.
Most of the required data is already onboard, its just a matter of verifying it.
Most of the required data is already onboard, its just a matter of verifying it.
Bottums Up
Slammer, I'm with Sunfish. Imagine yourself in a court of enquiry after some incident that has nothing to do with missing documents, but with a Legal Eagle the calibre of Geoffrey Robertson quietly tearing you a new fundamental orifice, as you squirm trying to explain why you knew better to disregard some rule or regulation to avoid the inconvenience of a tuen back.
It wouldn't be pretty.
It wouldn't be pretty.
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Sure and if they deliberately dispatched without current or any Doc's I'd agree. But I guess they should have thought about the "legal eagles" before this departure. Doesnt matter whether at destination or RTB the lawyers will take the crews professionalism to pieces in the event of a incident at either ... given the reason for diversion
Whatever ... Ill bet this crew is in for a higher jump for forgetting Docs and returning than forgetting Docs and completing the flight to destination, which is what their paid to do.... safely
Whatever ... Ill bet this crew is in for a higher jump for forgetting Docs and returning than forgetting Docs and completing the flight to destination, which is what their paid to do.... safely
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Can't agree Slamer, they had no choice but to return. They could have carried on and more than likely nothing would have gone wrong and no one would have been any the wiser until the next crew turned up for the return flight and said 'where are all the charts'. I would think this decision would have been taken in conjunction with the company ops anyway.
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Bad oversight by 2 crews, how did the aircraft leave Oz without the full route package. It is this second point that needs addressing by QF. There is something systemically wrong when this sort of event occurs, and this is not the first time charts have not been on board and a diversion was the result.
Trouble is it is easier for this current management to get the boys and girls in for tea and bickies then to go and find a solution to stop this happening again-ever.
Trouble is it is easier for this current management to get the boys and girls in for tea and bickies then to go and find a solution to stop this happening again-ever.