JetStar NZ
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Arnold E.
If you're really 62, haven't you been in aviation long enough ( or at least on this planet long enough) to realise that you take anything an engineer tells a pilot (and vice versa) with a pinch of salt?!
If you're really 62, haven't you been in aviation long enough ( or at least on this planet long enough) to realise that you take anything an engineer tells a pilot (and vice versa) with a pinch of salt?!
Join Date: May 2004
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@arnold mate that is not the starting rate!, pull your head in!, the starting rate was probably 5 or 10 years ago when this bloke was flying for $100 per week while he slogged his arse off in the middle of no where getting up his hours to get an airline job!
Frankly $160k for 2 years of training and then 5 or more years to build the hours to get an airline job is selling your 'mate' Short... He's with more!
Not selling you blokes short, because without you there is no airlines, I know you think it's alot for us 'button pushers' but you spend 7 or so years to get yourself into a position to strap yourself to the front of a shiny jet and cart 100's of people through the sky at 3/4 the speed of sound, spend nights away from your family and friends and tell me your not worth $160k??
He's worth more!!! Particularly on a stormy night when your enjoying a beer down the back!
Frankly $160k for 2 years of training and then 5 or more years to build the hours to get an airline job is selling your 'mate' Short... He's with more!
Not selling you blokes short, because without you there is no airlines, I know you think it's alot for us 'button pushers' but you spend 7 or so years to get yourself into a position to strap yourself to the front of a shiny jet and cart 100's of people through the sky at 3/4 the speed of sound, spend nights away from your family and friends and tell me your not worth $160k??
He's worth more!!! Particularly on a stormy night when your enjoying a beer down the back!
Frankly $160k for 2 years of training and then 5 or more years to build the hours to get an airline job is selling your 'mate' Short... He's with more!
Last edited by Arnold E; 12th Feb 2012 at 03:50. Reason: not what I would call poor, orriginally said you
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$160k for a newly minted second dicky isnt what I would call poor
(& if you look back near the start of this thread, someone even posted the pay scale...............)
Join Date: May 2001
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New contract?
Heard a rumour yesterday that J*(NZ) have struck a new deal thru ALPA negotiations.... close to AirNZ rates for A320 ($NZD107k Yr1 -130k Yr8 approx.)
Nothing firmer that, anyone else heard the same?
Nothing firmer that, anyone else heard the same?
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I doubt if that rumour is true S2000.
The company and negotiators are going to meet in a couple of weeks to start talking about pay. So far the company only agreed on the fact that the current contract is crap. How much it will improve by is anyone's guess.
Who did you hear that rumour from anyway?
The company and negotiators are going to meet in a couple of weeks to start talking about pay. So far the company only agreed on the fact that the current contract is crap. How much it will improve by is anyone's guess.
Who did you hear that rumour from anyway?
e28 driver
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I've just updated my jet* file from several years ago. I've about 6000 hours with 2500 P1 on regional jets in Europe. I've got a local passport and Australian ATPL so what are the chances of being considered for a DEC? The pay is little more than my salary here and from what I've seen on recent trips NZ isn't that cheap anymore.
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There seems to be al lot of speak of 'command' and 'time to command' etc in the previous 12 pages, however;
What is the point of a jet command, if it is on an F/O salary!??
The only thing ensured, by using the JQ cadet ship to get ahead and kick start your aviation career for the first 6 years, is that your aviation career will never reach the level that it could have, had you not taken that cadet ship.
Personally I don't blame people for taking it, certainly if they have 0 flying; to each his own etc. But people should realise that they can't take a $65k first job straight up, and still expect the industry to pay them $300-$400k later in their career. It's the thin end of a very long wedge.
However, far be it from me to try and tell you your best options for your stage of life and training etc, so all the best to you. I hope it works out.
What is the point of a jet command, if it is on an F/O salary!??
The only thing ensured, by using the JQ cadet ship to get ahead and kick start your aviation career for the first 6 years, is that your aviation career will never reach the level that it could have, had you not taken that cadet ship.
Personally I don't blame people for taking it, certainly if they have 0 flying; to each his own etc. But people should realise that they can't take a $65k first job straight up, and still expect the industry to pay them $300-$400k later in their career. It's the thin end of a very long wedge.
However, far be it from me to try and tell you your best options for your stage of life and training etc, so all the best to you. I hope it works out.
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Sorry Flyboy but I think the days of any airline pilots expecting to earn in the region of 300-400k per annum in New Zealand are long gone.
If you want to go offshore and live in some sh*thole to achieve these figures then so be it. But with fuel prices going the way they are going, the publics appetite for low cost fares and the take over of our industry by accountants those sorts of aspirations are becoming unrealistic by the day.
Got to disagree as well, the Jetstar FO rates are not good enough at the moment and miss the bar by a long way. The Captains rates however also need tweeking but are not totally outrageous. Pac Blue, Jetconnect and Jetstar are all currently within a few percent of each other, they all lag significantly behind Air NZ, but we can't all work for Air NZ now can we.
If you want to go offshore and live in some sh*thole to achieve these figures then so be it. But with fuel prices going the way they are going, the publics appetite for low cost fares and the take over of our industry by accountants those sorts of aspirations are becoming unrealistic by the day.
Got to disagree as well, the Jetstar FO rates are not good enough at the moment and miss the bar by a long way. The Captains rates however also need tweeking but are not totally outrageous. Pac Blue, Jetconnect and Jetstar are all currently within a few percent of each other, they all lag significantly behind Air NZ, but we can't all work for Air NZ now can we.
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Blind Bat - Artificial Horiz
Toppled Horizon - ie. Artificial
If you want to go offshore and live in some sh*thole to achieve these figures then so be it
I DO NOT live in a sh*thole but I do achieve 'these figures'.
You should watch a few TV programs titled 'Wanted Down Under'. The comparison they make with normal families ie. not involved in aviation, give a stark reality to living 'downunder' both in Godzone and its big brother. Both countries when compared with living in the northern hemisphere are often not in the league many believe. The southern countries often come second by a long haul flight. I currently work in Europe and will work here before back 'home' for one reason - there are no moaning bleeting sniping cretens like you to destroy the wonderful atmosphere that exists here in the multi cultural multi lingual societies. The air here is fresher than my name because we do not have your bad breath expelled 20 times per minute. It is people like you who have destroyed the Oz- NZ aviation environment. You have pushed the accountants and mgt into a corner so like any rats, they have turned and fight back eventually biting you and creating the venomous atmosphere that is common between Oz/NZ airline mgt and the workforce. I note QF unions are often 'negotiating' in court. I have yet to read of a European or ME Airline 'negotiating' pay and conditions in court. However, one should not be surprised this is common in Oz - you do have a bevy of venomous snakes native to your back yard.
Ciao
If you want to go offshore and live in some sh*thole to achieve these figures then so be it
I DO NOT live in a sh*thole but I do achieve 'these figures'.
You should watch a few TV programs titled 'Wanted Down Under'. The comparison they make with normal families ie. not involved in aviation, give a stark reality to living 'downunder' both in Godzone and its big brother. Both countries when compared with living in the northern hemisphere are often not in the league many believe. The southern countries often come second by a long haul flight. I currently work in Europe and will work here before back 'home' for one reason - there are no moaning bleeting sniping cretens like you to destroy the wonderful atmosphere that exists here in the multi cultural multi lingual societies. The air here is fresher than my name because we do not have your bad breath expelled 20 times per minute. It is people like you who have destroyed the Oz- NZ aviation environment. You have pushed the accountants and mgt into a corner so like any rats, they have turned and fight back eventually biting you and creating the venomous atmosphere that is common between Oz/NZ airline mgt and the workforce. I note QF unions are often 'negotiating' in court. I have yet to read of a European or ME Airline 'negotiating' pay and conditions in court. However, one should not be surprised this is common in Oz - you do have a bevy of venomous snakes native to your back yard.
Ciao
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Roaring 40's 
Actually, as someone who spent well over 12 years flying in Europe, I am more than qualified to comment on these things.
You are joking aren't you about EU and ME airline not going to court to negotiate
I find this hard to believe since only 3ish years ago I spent a whole week in the high court in London taking part in proceedings between the union I was a member of and the legacy carrier I was flying with. Off the top of my head I can think of 2 charter carriers who went to court over holiday pay / strike injunctions etc. As for the ME, those airlines don't have management who negotiate about anything, go and have a read of the ME forum my friend and you will find many examples of ME carriers management just changing contracts at their whim and telling people to get stuffed if they don't like it.
If I am right in what your post says, you are actually accusing me of bringing about the reduction in terms and conditions in New Zealand aviation by trying to improve and protect the terms and conditions that I am now earning / enjoying
So by me not agreeing to big cuts I am forcing management to undercut me.
That is great if you are happy in the EU doing your job, I still find it very hard to believe that you are indeed earning in the 3 - 400,000 nzd range. 150,000 pounds was a very reasonable income for a bog standard longhaul Captain (pay point 24) at my employer which is currently around $300,000 per annum in nzd.
I quite agree that living costs in NZ and Australia are way higher than they were when I left to go an make my money overseas. I decided though that London was not where I wanted to raise my family so the 'lifestyle' in NZ won over the excellent career I had, because despite being more expensive I can afford a far better lifestyle in NZ than I could in London. If you are so happy in the EU then great. If you are earning the equivalent of 3-400000 nzd then living in the EU then I would stay there as that is an outstanding wage.
It was actually my time overseas that opened my eyes to the Australasian aviation market and the fact that the days of senior airline Captains earning $500,000 per year is unrealistic. Something the rest of the world seems to have cottoned on to. I have actually over the years done my part in protecting terms and conditions, I have never been bonded for any of my airline jobs, never paid for any training, always been an active member of the union, I have turned down jobs as I did not want to pay for interviews etc. And was only stopped in partaking in strike action to protect my terms and conditions by a high court decision stopping me from doing so.
My comments above were aimed at those who have contacted me in the past via pprune to tell me that they are earning outrageous amounts of money and consider $200,000 nzd to be an insult for a professional pilot. 9/10 of those who say this are generally working in far flung odd parts of the world that I would not take my family too if you paid me $1,000,000 per year. They are happy their and that is there choice, I am just saying that those payrates they talk of are not generally available in parts of the world where most would like to live. As I say if you are managing to earn 50% more than anyone I know in the EU earns then you are onto a good thing and should stay there.
Actually, as someone who spent well over 12 years flying in Europe, I am more than qualified to comment on these things.
You are joking aren't you about EU and ME airline not going to court to negotiate
I find this hard to believe since only 3ish years ago I spent a whole week in the high court in London taking part in proceedings between the union I was a member of and the legacy carrier I was flying with. Off the top of my head I can think of 2 charter carriers who went to court over holiday pay / strike injunctions etc. As for the ME, those airlines don't have management who negotiate about anything, go and have a read of the ME forum my friend and you will find many examples of ME carriers management just changing contracts at their whim and telling people to get stuffed if they don't like it. If I am right in what your post says, you are actually accusing me of bringing about the reduction in terms and conditions in New Zealand aviation by trying to improve and protect the terms and conditions that I am now earning / enjoying
So by me not agreeing to big cuts I am forcing management to undercut me. That is great if you are happy in the EU doing your job, I still find it very hard to believe that you are indeed earning in the 3 - 400,000 nzd range. 150,000 pounds was a very reasonable income for a bog standard longhaul Captain (pay point 24) at my employer which is currently around $300,000 per annum in nzd.
I quite agree that living costs in NZ and Australia are way higher than they were when I left to go an make my money overseas. I decided though that London was not where I wanted to raise my family so the 'lifestyle' in NZ won over the excellent career I had, because despite being more expensive I can afford a far better lifestyle in NZ than I could in London. If you are so happy in the EU then great. If you are earning the equivalent of 3-400000 nzd then living in the EU then I would stay there as that is an outstanding wage.
It was actually my time overseas that opened my eyes to the Australasian aviation market and the fact that the days of senior airline Captains earning $500,000 per year is unrealistic. Something the rest of the world seems to have cottoned on to. I have actually over the years done my part in protecting terms and conditions, I have never been bonded for any of my airline jobs, never paid for any training, always been an active member of the union, I have turned down jobs as I did not want to pay for interviews etc. And was only stopped in partaking in strike action to protect my terms and conditions by a high court decision stopping me from doing so.
My comments above were aimed at those who have contacted me in the past via pprune to tell me that they are earning outrageous amounts of money and consider $200,000 nzd to be an insult for a professional pilot. 9/10 of those who say this are generally working in far flung odd parts of the world that I would not take my family too if you paid me $1,000,000 per year. They are happy their and that is there choice, I am just saying that those payrates they talk of are not generally available in parts of the world where most would like to live. As I say if you are managing to earn 50% more than anyone I know in the EU earns then you are onto a good thing and should stay there.
Last edited by Artificial Horizon; 5th Mar 2012 at 05:55.
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What is the point of a jet command, if it is on an F/O salary!??
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Delta T responded to the question below;
What is the point of a jet command, if it is on an F/O salary!??
"So you can get the Capt time then leave and go to an airline that pays market rates for that experience"
And there in black and white, for all to see, is why this industry is totally screwed! I sure hope that was tongue in cheek!
What is the point of a jet command, if it is on an F/O salary!??
"So you can get the Capt time then leave and go to an airline that pays market rates for that experience"
And there in black and white, for all to see, is why this industry is totally screwed! I sure hope that was tongue in cheek!
