Qantas latest engine out
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Lets get it into perspective, over 16,000 hrs on jets, according to my log (and roughly worked out) about every 1700 hrs I had a turn back or some sort of engine failure, (big and small). This is on the DC9, B747, A300, 747/200/300. The only one that made it into the press was because Keating and a few other pollies were on board, out of CBR. Somehow I would think this would have still made it into press, even if the Boks were not on board. QF bashing is still alive and well. However if the Engineers can think of a way of helping the Wallabies, well I am all for it!
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It is pretty obvious that QF has a problem with the RB211's on the 400.
I flew them for several years with not so much as a mumur and now its full on failures on a regular basis.
Sandilands point is right, how can QF, without putting itself right in the breach, continue to operate certain remote routes with this knowledge?
To say that the 'rate of failure' is blah blah blah totally overlooks the issue at hand and is simply a management smokescreen.
If a 400 gets in serious problems as a result there will be feathers flying for years and years.
Mind you, in a month, they may not be flying anymore and this problem won't exist.
I flew them for several years with not so much as a mumur and now its full on failures on a regular basis.
Sandilands point is right, how can QF, without putting itself right in the breach, continue to operate certain remote routes with this knowledge?
To say that the 'rate of failure' is blah blah blah totally overlooks the issue at hand and is simply a management smokescreen.
If a 400 gets in serious problems as a result there will be feathers flying for years and years.
Mind you, in a month, they may not be flying anymore and this problem won't exist.
Lets get it into perspective, over 16,000 hrs on jets, according to my log (and roughly worked out) about every 1700 hrs I had a turn back or some sort of engine failure, (big and small). This is on the DC9, B747, A300, 747/200/300.
The old jumbo engines used to flame out if you gassed it too quick and had a hole drilled in the throttle quadrant for a pin to be installed after engine start as a nasty work around to stop the engine being retarded back to full idle or it would flame out.
The RB211 in its first incarnation nearly sent Rolls Royce broke because it kept exploding.
Today jet engines are a mature technology, as can be demonstrated by some of the old RB211's on the wings of some Qantas aircraft, they went years beyond what was expected before they were due for overhaul.
It's the fact that as engines became more reliable that the idea of ETOPS became viable and killed off the 3 engined aircraft.
A mature, fully evolved engine such as the RB211 on the 744's shouldn't be exploding randomly like they are at the moment. Apparently its not a safety issue because there are 4 engines. The SFO failure included the turbin disk being ejected out the side, lucky it was away from the aircraft unlike QF32's.
Was QF32 with its 1 exploding engine 'not a safety issue' ?
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August 24
Due to the untenable situation with the reliability of the Rolls Royce powered 744 fleet and outrageously unsustainable cost of our international business, all Boeing 747 aircraft powered by Rolls Royce engines greater than 1 year old in the International fleet will be retired effective immediately, which unfortunately will lead to the closure of most key Qantas destinations and result in mass redundancies.
Fortunately, due to strategic decision making Jetstar has offered to fill the void and provide a fresh alternative for our valued customers. As a stopgap measure we will be relocating aircraft and crew from our subsiduary business units to minimise disruptions.
Sincerely
Al
Fortunately, due to strategic decision making Jetstar has offered to fill the void and provide a fresh alternative for our valued customers. As a stopgap measure we will be relocating aircraft and crew from our subsiduary business units to minimise disruptions.
Sincerely
Al
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Tonight on 7mate - Air Crash Investigation: Unlocking Disaster
I wonder if any QF managers or members of the board are watching 7mate tonight?
The episode starts with "Modern airliners are among the most complex and reliable machines in common use. But occasionally, delays in fixing a known defect have lead to disaster." (regarding the 747 with the cargo door that opened in flight).
More likely they're watching Business Asia...
The episode starts with "Modern airliners are among the most complex and reliable machines in common use. But occasionally, delays in fixing a known defect have lead to disaster." (regarding the 747 with the cargo door that opened in flight).
More likely they're watching Business Asia...
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Re 600 Foot Pound last Message.
The original JT9D on the B747 had a bar installed aft of the thrust levers. Never used by ground engineers but was for flight crew only. It was known as the 'Bodie Bar' after a pilot in the USAF who did slam accelerations and deccelarations of engines. So I was told on an engine course. It was to prevent the engine going below a certain R P M possibly to avoid a slow spool up. Does anyone recall this ???.
Runaround Valve,
The thingo to which you refer was called a throttle bar or an idle bar. It's purpose in life was to prevent the retarding of the thrust levers too far when above FL290. It was engaged, slid into place actually, by the FE at FL290 on climb and stowed on descent below FL290.
The early JT9-3A engines operated very close to the surge line at higher altitudes and were very prone to surge without the higher idle rpm from the throttle bar. Idle acceleration was not much slower than current types. All B747s, AFAIK, shift to flight idle with approach flap selection and maintain this higher idle speed until 5 seconds, I think, after ground mode sensed. This is purely to satisfy GA engine acceleration requirements.
Does anyone else hear the fluttering of chickens coming home to roost????
The thingo to which you refer was called a throttle bar or an idle bar. It's purpose in life was to prevent the retarding of the thrust levers too far when above FL290. It was engaged, slid into place actually, by the FE at FL290 on climb and stowed on descent below FL290.
The early JT9-3A engines operated very close to the surge line at higher altitudes and were very prone to surge without the higher idle rpm from the throttle bar. Idle acceleration was not much slower than current types. All B747s, AFAIK, shift to flight idle with approach flap selection and maintain this higher idle speed until 5 seconds, I think, after ground mode sensed. This is purely to satisfy GA engine acceleration requirements.
Does anyone else hear the fluttering of chickens coming home to roost????
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Another Qantas engine blows up ??
Johannesburg - The Springbok rugby team's flight to Australia was forced to return shortly after departing from Johannesburg on Friday night due to engine failure.
"The Qantas flight on which the team was travelling was forced to return to OR Tambo International Airport in Johannesburg less than two hours after take-off," the SA Rugby Union said in a statement.
Saru said the third engine on the Boeing 747 overheated, but it returned and landed safely in Johannesburg. The team would remain in Johannesburg overnight.
SARU says the plane returned safely to Johannesburg's OR Tambo International Airport, landing less than two hours after its departure.
"There was a loud bang and a bump and the captain told us we would be unable to continue our journey to Australia as engine No. 3 had failed," team spokesman Andy Colquhoun said. "So we dumped fuel and returned to Johannesburg.
"The Qantas flight on which the team was travelling was forced to return to OR Tambo International Airport in Johannesburg less than two hours after take-off," the SA Rugby Union said in a statement.
Saru said the third engine on the Boeing 747 overheated, but it returned and landed safely in Johannesburg. The team would remain in Johannesburg overnight.
SARU says the plane returned safely to Johannesburg's OR Tambo International Airport, landing less than two hours after its departure.
"There was a loud bang and a bump and the captain told us we would be unable to continue our journey to Australia as engine No. 3 had failed," team spokesman Andy Colquhoun said. "So we dumped fuel and returned to Johannesburg.
Last edited by rogerk; 16th Jul 2011 at 12:51. Reason: Bad thread title !!
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Qf stated the engine failure was not a safety issue.
In a later statement they also stated the aircraft returned to Jo'burg as a safety precaution.
So the engine failure was not a safety issue, but the diversion was?
In a later statement they also stated the aircraft returned to Jo'burg as a safety precaution.
So the engine failure was not a safety issue, but the diversion was?
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QF shut down its world class engine maintenance plant. It now outsources and as a consequence gets a crap product. I believe they have now achieved their goal of worlds best practice (ie minimum maintenance required).
Why the previous and current CEO aren't held to account is amazing.
Why the previous and current CEO aren't held to account is amazing.
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blueloo wrote
QF shut down its world class engine maintenance plant.
QF shut down its world class engine maintenance plant.
That is very interesting. Would you care and substantiate a little bit more this statement?
(i.e. when was the shutdown, who is the present subcontractor......)
Thanks.
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Qantas PR fool quote
The spokeperson craps on a lot more but my question can anyone compile the number of RB211 failures in recent times? maybe since the workshop closed in Sydney? Maybe Steve can shed some light on the failure rate since the RR shop shutdown vs before. Basically the hours flown by QF 744's has been pretty constant the last decade or so?
Just heard from a CASA source there may be an announcement too this week, they are getting a bit fidgety about it!
These QF spokespeople are about as effective as a wooden bbq at the bottom of the pacific ocean trench with a waterproof match...I'm sure Olivia can put spin about its a water proof match so it can still be lit underwater lol !
Shutting down one of the four engines on an aircraft is not a safety risk
to the passengers or crew. Qantas has never ‘cut costs’ on safety and never will Qantas invests more than $1 billion in maintenance each year
The likely cause of the incident, the failure of a single blade on a high
pressure compressor, is not an issue which is exclusive to Qantas. Other
airlines around the world have experienced this type of issue with RB211
engines.
This is not an issue which requires immediate action and the manufacturer has advised all airlines to undertake a modification at the next major engine overhaul.
Qantas has fast-tracked the program in recent months to bring the
modification forward on our aircraft, ahead of the manufacturer’s
recommended timeframe. Despite the union’s claims there is not a lack of capacity at engine overhaul facilities around the world.
to the passengers or crew. Qantas has never ‘cut costs’ on safety and never will Qantas invests more than $1 billion in maintenance each year
The likely cause of the incident, the failure of a single blade on a high
pressure compressor, is not an issue which is exclusive to Qantas. Other
airlines around the world have experienced this type of issue with RB211
engines.
This is not an issue which requires immediate action and the manufacturer has advised all airlines to undertake a modification at the next major engine overhaul.
Qantas has fast-tracked the program in recent months to bring the
modification forward on our aircraft, ahead of the manufacturer’s
recommended timeframe. Despite the union’s claims there is not a lack of capacity at engine overhaul facilities around the world.
Just heard from a CASA source there may be an announcement too this week, they are getting a bit fidgety about it!
These QF spokespeople are about as effective as a wooden bbq at the bottom of the pacific ocean trench with a waterproof match...I'm sure Olivia can put spin about its a water proof match so it can still be lit underwater lol !
short flights long nights
Meanwhile...some small Middle East Airline called Emirates has just anounced a contract with GE and a spend of 120 million to build a complete engine care facility in Dubai. We had that in Australia once, didn't we?
Steve,
I tried to cut and paste a comment, but the article has been modified before I could.
In the article (from the Age), it said the the last maintenance performed on that engine was done by QF engineers (according to Olivia).
Are you able to shed some light on this, so we can get some facts, and not spin?
Thanks Mate,
Cool names
I tried to cut and paste a comment, but the article has been modified before I could.
In the article (from the Age), it said the the last maintenance performed on that engine was done by QF engineers (according to Olivia).
Are you able to shed some light on this, so we can get some facts, and not spin?
Thanks Mate,
Cool names
I wouldn't have thought it mattered who had done the last maintenance. The fix to the known problem has to be done at a appropriately equipped and certified workshop ... of which QANTAS allegedly has none.
In the article (from the Age), it said the the last maintenance performed on that engine was done by QF engineers (according to Olivia).
It's not what they tell the public it's what they don't say that matters.