Rishworth recruiting for Jetstar NZ
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The problem down here in Australia and New Zealand is we are a bit behind the lines when it comes to Low Cost Carriers. When I first started working in the UK, all airlines paid for training, albeit with a bond of some sort. Ryanair came along and all of a sudden people were being asked to pay upfront for a type rating. Next step was the introduction of employing pilots on an outsourced contract which meant that you paid for your own sim checks and also hotel accommodation. The final nail in the coffin came when 'cadets' started paying for type ratings and line flying to give 500 hours experience. With each of these developments those of us already working 'scoffed' at how ridiculous each of these new schemes were and that there was no chance in hell they would get enough candidates. Funnily enough though they ended up oversubscribed. Impulse then Jetstar Oz started it in Australia, Air NZ and Kiwi Air tried to start it in NZ, Tiger came in at about the Ryanair level but seems to have cut to far. Jetstar is the only successful LCC model in Oz to date, even Virgin is trying to move up in the world. I am suprised as to how long it has taken Jetstar to start exploiting these schemes down here like they did in Europe. Cadets are only the start. Before we all start getting high and mighty, I would say a good proportion of the pilots who allowed these schemes to get underway were expats from New Zealand and Australia who compose a big proportion of the flying community in the UK. They were quite happy to 'undercut' the locals at the time. Maybe it is the chicken coming home to roost.
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Air NZ has a robust "scope" clause, that means Air NZ aircraft are flown by Air NZ pilots, any subsidiary jet operations are included, and give rights to Air NZ pilots to fly them. This is why Freedom ended up being irrelevent, and it's pilots got a pretty good deal to take up their "reserved" seniority number and integrate into the Air NZ pilot group.
That clause was not won easily, and took a bit more that "requesting" and "not condoning".
That clause was not won easily, and took a bit more that "requesting" and "not condoning".
I'm an ex-Ansett guy, now working as a Captain in the UK on the A320. Much as I would come back to Oz - this offer ain't enough to do it ... even if it was choice of base in Oz!
Get close to doubling it, and it would be a consideration.
Get close to doubling it, and it would be a consideration.
$NZD (130k x 2) = $260k + (20k x2) = 300k / annum
Air NZ A320 base salary, about $NZD 220k - $250k, I stand to be corrected. There is super on top.
Jetstar CHC EBA base salary: $AUD 155k (approx) at an AVERAGE exchange rate (not what it is now) of $1.25 = $NZD 195k.
I think your expectation of a narrow body command pay in NZ is way off the mark. Hey I would like that pay living in NZ as well, however it is unrealistic.
BTW an AirNZ B747 Captain BASE salary would probably only match or perhaps not quite match your expectation of $NZD 300k
I realise you were talking about a base in Oz however this is not what the offer is for. If you want a base in Oz these days you will need to join Virgin or Jetstar at the bottom of the list. A command with check and training and doing BIG hours will get you $AUD 300k. (years down the track). You could join Tiger, but won't get that on sign up.
I think you will need to stay in the UK!
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Considering that the $NZ is pushing $US0.85 and £0.55 at the moment, I have to break the news to you guys that it's actually one of the best LCC captain packages anywhere in the world right now 
Go look at the what else is available in Europe / Asia, get on your currency converters and figure it out.
The fact that it's NZ based is just the icing on the cake. Yes the usual suspects will quiver with outrage because it doesn't pay the same as Air NZ longhaul / QF longhaul / Cathay "A" scale, but realistically with the way exchange rates have gone I can see that expats with A320 time in Europe / Asia / sandpit are going to be all over that like a pack of wolves.
The F/O package however is far below standard, if captain package is round the $160 / $170 area then there's no excuse for F/O's being on less than half.
Go look at the what else is available in Europe / Asia, get on your currency converters and figure it out.The fact that it's NZ based is just the icing on the cake. Yes the usual suspects will quiver with outrage because it doesn't pay the same as Air NZ longhaul / QF longhaul / Cathay "A" scale, but realistically with the way exchange rates have gone I can see that expats with A320 time in Europe / Asia / sandpit are going to be all over that like a pack of wolves.
The F/O package however is far below standard, if captain package is round the $160 / $170 area then there's no excuse for F/O's being on less than half.
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Once again you 'CAN'T' compare the Jetstar, PAC Blue and Jetconnect packages to that of Air New Zealand. LCC will always be paid less than full 'legacy' carriers. The Air NZ package is excellent, however the reality is that if you wait for a job with Air NZ you could be waiting a long time.
The CHC based EBA pilots with Jetstar have been onto the best kept secret in aviation for the past few years. They were on circa $180 - 200,000 AUD and only worked 12-14 days per month. With the exchange rate and days flown they were on one of the best packages around. Jetstar Australia had a chance to stop the formation of Jetstar NZ back when it was being planned, without Jetstar Oz ground, sim instructors and training Captains Jetstar NZ wouldn't have started. The horse has bolted.
Back to topic though, the DEC package is a good one for people wanting to return home, the FO package is only good if you have a need and desire to live in New Zealand.
The CHC based EBA pilots with Jetstar have been onto the best kept secret in aviation for the past few years. They were on circa $180 - 200,000 AUD and only worked 12-14 days per month. With the exchange rate and days flown they were on one of the best packages around. Jetstar Australia had a chance to stop the formation of Jetstar NZ back when it was being planned, without Jetstar Oz ground, sim instructors and training Captains Jetstar NZ wouldn't have started. The horse has bolted.
Back to topic though, the DEC package is a good one for people wanting to return home, the FO package is only good if you have a need and desire to live in New Zealand.
Once again you 'CAN'T' compare the Jetstar
Go look at the what else is available in Europe / Asia, get on your currency converters and figure it out.
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Growler - would that be the ones advertised through VOR Holdings by any chance? Good luck with that mate, find ONE person who's actually got the job and got the money in their hand and happy with the service they're being provided, and I will eat my hat. Oh and enjoy your stay in China 
Seriously ... when you consider the big worldwide players in low cost airlines :
- Comparing the 2+ year Rishworth / Jetstar basic salary and ignoring the $30 grand sign on bonus, I'm basing my maths on $NZ158,000, converting to $US at today's exchange rate which is $US0.84, and divide by 12. Works out at $US11,100 per month.
- Easy / Ryan skippers are on a plethora of different contracts but total package for most UK based guys averages out around £80 - 90,000 p.a. I've taken £85,000 as the average and on today's exchange rate it works out at $US11,400 / month. So, same same but different, until you consider the taxes and UK cost of living. No contest.
- Easy and Ryan would be where 90% of the narrowbody-skipper expat kiwis in Europe are ... but if you want a real shocker go and find out how things are on the European mainland at places like Wizzair and Vueling
- Air Asia, is about $US9000 a month all up.
- Tiger Singapore is around Sing$10,000 / month : $US8,200
- Vietnam Airlines A320, $US10,800 / month
- By way of comparison to sandpit airlines : Flydubai and EY/QR narrowbody LHS, all work out the same around $US14,000 / month. Sure it's more but that ain't much of a premium at all for putting up with the crap in the sandpit compared to an Auckland base. And if you have got 2 or more kids in school, then you're probably better off staying home.
Seriously ... when you consider the big worldwide players in low cost airlines :
- Comparing the 2+ year Rishworth / Jetstar basic salary and ignoring the $30 grand sign on bonus, I'm basing my maths on $NZ158,000, converting to $US at today's exchange rate which is $US0.84, and divide by 12. Works out at $US11,100 per month.
- Easy / Ryan skippers are on a plethora of different contracts but total package for most UK based guys averages out around £80 - 90,000 p.a. I've taken £85,000 as the average and on today's exchange rate it works out at $US11,400 / month. So, same same but different, until you consider the taxes and UK cost of living. No contest.
- Easy and Ryan would be where 90% of the narrowbody-skipper expat kiwis in Europe are ... but if you want a real shocker go and find out how things are on the European mainland at places like Wizzair and Vueling
- Air Asia, is about $US9000 a month all up.
- Tiger Singapore is around Sing$10,000 / month : $US8,200
- Vietnam Airlines A320, $US10,800 / month
- By way of comparison to sandpit airlines : Flydubai and EY/QR narrowbody LHS, all work out the same around $US14,000 / month. Sure it's more but that ain't much of a premium at all for putting up with the crap in the sandpit compared to an Auckland base. And if you have got 2 or more kids in school, then you're probably better off staying home.
Luke Sky Toddler,
What's with the need to always convert into US Dollars??? are the guys working for J* NZ commuting to the US ?
The worse contract you've mentioned is Tiger SINGAPORE due to the HIGH cost of living. Tiger also isn't paying for accommodation or kids education....
What's with the need to always convert into US Dollars??? are the guys working for J* NZ commuting to the US ?
The worse contract you've mentioned is Tiger SINGAPORE due to the HIGH cost of living. Tiger also isn't paying for accommodation or kids education....
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I responded to the rishworth email asking if it was intended in jest.
Jesus the guy that picks the rubbish off my lawn gets more than that.
Sure you get to live in NZ, but why whore yourself to do it?
Jesus the guy that picks the rubbish off my lawn gets more than that.
Sure you get to live in NZ, but why whore yourself to do it?
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Comparing the salary with todays exchange rate does not show the full picture. This contract compared with all other operators in the region and its sub par, not just the pay but the scheduling agreement. I have on good authority that the current NZ based pilots are negotiating a better deal with NZALPA. Theres a clause in that rishworth deal that states that Jetstar has to be satisfied that you will stay on the conditions you were employed on. (very dodgy considering you haven't experienced living on that contract). So I dare say within a year you will be on a lessor contract than the other pilots.
And as an asside I have lived in both the UK and NZ within the past 3 years. In many respects I would say UK is cheaper. Houses, Food, Petrol...... its not the 90s. and when the exchange rate goes back to normal?..... ah well atleast you were paid similar to a ryanair pilot for a year....... and they can negotiate better and you'll be on the same salary in 5 years with cost of living increases etc.
can understand people get living in NZ tunnel vision but please have a think
And as an asside I have lived in both the UK and NZ within the past 3 years. In many respects I would say UK is cheaper. Houses, Food, Petrol...... its not the 90s. and when the exchange rate goes back to normal?..... ah well atleast you were paid similar to a ryanair pilot for a year....... and they can negotiate better and you'll be on the same salary in 5 years with cost of living increases etc.
can understand people get living in NZ tunnel vision but please have a think
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split flap,
You sound like a Kiwi stuck on a turbo-prop that can't get a jet job in NZ, am I correct?
You sound like a Kiwi stuck on a turbo-prop that can't get a jet job in NZ, am I correct?
If the job at J* is crap, don't apply !
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I might have missed it somewhere in previous posts, but this looks to me like an attempt to take advantage of a bunch of nervous Tiger pilots worried about their future??
I may be wrong, but the timing is right.
I may be wrong, but the timing is right.
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74world I converted to US dollars because that is the standard currency that those of us out here in the contract world get paid in, so it's easy for us to compare. And I would assume, that most of the applications for DEC positions will be from guys currently based outside NZ, because there's only two A320 operators in the country, and I don't imagine too many guys will be leaving Air NZ for this.
However I take it all back, on further reflection and having a read of the Herald this morning, some guys confidently predicting the kiwi $ will fall back to .50 US cent in a couple of years once the US economic recovery kicks in, in which case it would be once again among the worst paid A320 captain gigs in the contract world. Right now, it IS a good salary and right up there with anything else available in contract land, but it's a very very high risk strategy to drop the ball and come home to that unless you've already made your pile of money elsewhere.
And it's a REALLY crap package for F/O's ... having read the Herald a bit further I found an ATR F/O job paying $135 grand ...
However I take it all back, on further reflection and having a read of the Herald this morning, some guys confidently predicting the kiwi $ will fall back to .50 US cent in a couple of years once the US economic recovery kicks in, in which case it would be once again among the worst paid A320 captain gigs in the contract world. Right now, it IS a good salary and right up there with anything else available in contract land, but it's a very very high risk strategy to drop the ball and come home to that unless you've already made your pile of money elsewhere.
And it's a REALLY crap package for F/O's ... having read the Herald a bit further I found an ATR F/O job paying $135 grand ...
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At least with this deal you don't have to fly some archaic piece of junk and put up with the childish politics which seem to pervade GA in New Zealand.
Sure you get to live in NZ, but why whore yourself to do it?
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"These same pilots will grizzle like hell when they have been there a year just like everyone does how poor the conditions are!!!"
Do these same pilots normally sign a contract without reading it?
You won't hear too many complaints from the guys who have escaped the train wreck otherwise known as General Aviation New Zealand.
You don't have to be Einstein to work out that this deal is infinitely better than flying some archaic piece of junk and putting up with the childish politics that seem to pervade GA in this country.
Do these same pilots normally sign a contract without reading it?
You won't hear too many complaints from the guys who have escaped the train wreck otherwise known as General Aviation New Zealand.
You don't have to be Einstein to work out that this deal is infinitely better than flying some archaic piece of junk and putting up with the childish politics that seem to pervade GA in this country.
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and putting up with the childish politics
W9
