QF Pilots PIA

[Toruk Macto]

Not sure if a few polite PA's and a delay is going to win you the war !

[speeeedy]

The word is that this steady as she goes attitude of the pilots has really thrown Qantas off beam.

I do wonder if Joyce can survive, it isn't exactly a great response to little or no industrial action so far.

Apparently some feedback to them from some of the more serious customers are quite supportive of the pilots point of view.

For Qantas to get those comments before even doing anything serious has not gone unnoticed by those higher up.

[HF3000]

I would say the pilots continue to have the upper hand at the moment.

I wouldn't want to be an AJ's shoes for any number of millions. Margaret Jackson will be thinking she got off lightly when the boot kicks in to the Board and the CEO.

Protracted low-level industrial action from AIPA, ALAEA and TWU will sort the MBA sheep from the goats. Qantas premium passengers want a quality product from an Australian airline. They are prepared to pay for it but not if it doesn't meet those expectations. QF Exec don't seem to get that. It's very simple really. Borghetti gets it, and QF are going to have to start replacing key positions pretty fast or Virgin Australia will be the new flag carrier.

[Ngineer]

I do wonder if Joyce can survive,

The board will probably make him the scapegoat and keep driving their agenda. Nothing changes if nothing changes.

[framer]

Months ago many of us said you need to drop every claim except the job security one.
It would still help......imagine how useless that website would be if there was only one claim....
The plans are in place, nothing will stop them, short of overwheling National support for the employees, thus far, you haven't got it.
Get as ugly as you want, it won't help unless the pollies interject and they won't do that unless Australia wants them to.
Everything else is just fluff on the way to what has been planned.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

It would still help......imagine how useless that website would be if there was only one claim....

You think they would change their website or the garbage they are telling the press? It makes no difference what our claims are now, they just say what they want. They reckon the average LAME earns 150k. I'm sure many of our members are wondering when the cheque will arrive for that extra 80k.

[framer]

Yeah I do Steve, I think it would have been a good move two months ago and still a good move now. Make a massive publicity stunt out of it. Big news about how the pilots are willing to go backwards against inflation three years running and make no other claims of the company, thats how strongly they believe in "Qantas Pilots for Qantas Aircraft" , they're dropping 'x' number of claims to get just this one though.
I mean seriously, what are all the other claims worth if you lose that one???????
Zip.
It'l probably cost each pilot maybe 20-30k over the next 3 years to drop all the claims.
Is that worth it?
I think it is.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

I doubt it will change a thing mate but as negotiations progress you may be able to make news each time something drops off. You will never change them however picking the highest wage earner in the particular group and highlighting their wage. It didn't do them any good in our last dispute though, we can just repsond by highlighting the CEOs wage.

[framer]

Yeah you may be right. That is how I feel though.
The whole thing is very frustrating.
I think every day that goes by things are more and more set in stone and I don't even fly for QF.
I hope you're right.
Framer

[apache]

Why shouldn't they get a payrise, framer? he company CAN afford it!dropping the pay claim is just stupid. NO other group of employees, ANYWHERE in the country would be happy to sit on static/backwards wages... so why should pilots?
This is just playing into their hands.
IF you only have one claim, and they STILL wont agree to it, you have no other position from which to "bargain".
keep the claims!!!!!

[Mr Leslie Chow]

Hi Steve,

Are there any plans for the ALEA to start up a website as well?

I hope AIPA do a good job of not only refuting the claims made on the company site but also getting the message out.

We are playing the gentleman's game, whereas the company I think are about one move away from trying to kick someone in the nuts.

Keep up the great work - you're a legend, so is Ben Sandilands.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by fedsec

They reckon the average LAME earns 150k. I'm sure many of our members are wondering when the cheque will arrive for that extra 80k.

Are you saying the average Qantas LAME earns 70K?

[Keg]

Had a bloke disembark tonight and mentioned that he'd been to the website and signed up to support us as soon as we parked. A couple in the lift in the hotel asked me about the PIA and said they backed the pilots. I think we're getting far more traction than AJ would like.

I note the new QF website doesn't have a Blog like Qantas Pilots does.

[33 Disengage]

The PIA is working. The general public know it's about QF management wanting to shift Qantas and it's people offshore. Keep up the good fight, slowly but surely you are winning the PR battle.

[harrowing]

extra EPs

Will AJ's recent captain be rostered for extra EPs?

[framer]

Why shouldn't they get a payrise, framer?

In my mind, it's not about whether they should or shouldn't get a payrise.

It's a bit like this, I believe that people living in Australia should be allowed an asprin if they have a headache.
I also believe that people living in Australia should be cut free from the wreckage of a car crash before they die of shock and blood loss.
You guys are trapped in the wreckage and the unions are fighting hard to ensure you get both cut free, and an asprin. Does it really matter if you have a headache for a bit after you've been cut free?
If you get all high and mighty about the the asprin ....the wreckage might just explode.

NO other group of employees, ANYWHERE in the country would be happy to sit on static/backwards wages... so why should pilots?

You don't have to be happy about it Apache, it's not a Disney movie. In fact, you could be very unhappy about it as you tootle off to work knowing you can make the mortgage payments next month.

The only way to come out of this ok is to have QF reverse or heavily modify all the plans they have in the pipeline. The only way that will hapen is with a public outcry against the company that motivates the pollies and board members to back down. Will you get a public outcry with all these other claims muddying the water ? Pay rises creating grey areas in the minds of Jo public? Not in my opinion.

dropping the pay claim is just stupid.

I respect your opinion and hope that you still think that in three weeks time.
Framer

[theheadmaster]

Framer, I can see where you (and others posting similar views) are coming from, however I don't quite agree. The wage rise and travel claims are what the membership asked AIPA to negotiate, along with job security. The union is doing what the membership asked it to do, and is doing it in a measured and responsible way. The slow and steady campaign has resulted in significant media exposure with zero impact on the public. This has resulted in public discussion of the issues before any action that might cause emotive public response. AIPA's tactics with regard to media exposure has turned out to be smarter than those on this forum who were criticising AIPA's lack of media savvy. Similarly, I think that AIPA's strategy with respect to claims will turn out to be smarter than the strategy of shooting off all your ammunition before the battle starts. Ultimately the battle for terms and conditions will be fought over the negotiating table with Qantas or be arbitrated by FWA, not the public.

Give AIPA some credit, they are doing what the membership asked of it in a way that is measured and responsible. Hopefully they will not fall for the shoot-from-the-hip responses called for by uninformed members of this forum.

[framer]

Hopefully they will not fall for the shoot-from-the-hip responses called for by uninformed members of this forum.

I hope that the current tactics are successful, but with the plans that are obviously in place for this restructure I think it is not looking certain of a good outcome for employees.
I guess we will see in just a short while if my' uninformed shoot from the hip' suggestion was worth a shot. If you guys get your way and nobody loses their job I will happily say that I was wrong to suggest dropping the other claims.
Until then, well, good luck, I hope it is resolved well.

[breakfastburrito]

but with the plans that are obviously in place for this restructure

framer, in hindsight, the plans have been in the works for 10++ years.
I also believe this is a "management of expectations" exercise with respect to the share price, ie, given the galaxy fund manager on the board. They don't appear too unhappy about the share price. The pilots and the engineers were the designated share price killers - ie scape goats. Management are desperate for a big war to justify pulling the rug out from under it & then take it private.

Bruce Buchanan has let the cat out of the bag - they simply can't get 400 aeroplanes worth of growth from a mature international business, so they want to kill it. His boasting about being the "fastest growing airline" says it all. They want the capital from the international operation, to be leveraged up in the pan Asian franchise LCC market. This is dot com bubble stuff. The managers are salivating at the massive growth rates, will retire with 100's of millions by 2016 and leave the whole bag of sh!t for the next sucker.

[Capt Kremin]

BB I think you are correct. Whether or not they can get XXXX number of pilots willing to spend their entire career in Asia is also subject to question.

I guess if they are all on the LH award however......