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QF Pilots PIA

Old 26th Jul 2011, 08:40
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Capt Kremin - how exactly will this sort of ban actually work?

placing a ban on extending his tour of duty
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Old 26th Jul 2011, 08:44
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What are the union rules with respect to a quorum?
We already have a quorum, Ken. We all think you are a management tool who literally has no clue.
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Old 26th Jul 2011, 09:49
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Damn Clever

SYDNEY (MarketWatch) -- Odd forms of industrial action against Qantas Airways Ltd. (QAN.AU) continue, with a union representing pilots saying Tuesday that one of its members will fly a plane this week without wearing his cap.
The move comes after two right-handed engineers this month started using tools such as screwdrivers and spanners with their left hands only when performing regular maintenance and safety checks on Qantas aircraft.
Both unions have successfully applied to Australia's workplace tribunal to take several forms of industrial action. If they don't take any action within 30 days they lose their legal protection, prompting them to take tokenistic action to keep their options live.
A single captain of a Boeing 747 flight will take three forms of protected industrial action on a flight later this week, the Australian and International Pilots Association said in a statement.
He will do so by working precisely to flight manual instructions, placing a ban on extending his tour of duty and not wearing his cap.
"AIPA is working hard to make the public aware of what the current management is doing to Qantas, while at the same time being extremely mindful of our number one priority: Qantas passengers," APIA Vice President Richard Woodward said.
Pilots last week started making announcements on flights over planes' public address systems informing passenger's of the union's concerns.
Unions representing pilots, engineers and baggage handlers are concerned about jobs being moved offshore or to contractors and have included job security claims in regular negotiations over pay and conditions.
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Old 28th Jul 2011, 07:26
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Concerned junior crew member

So Qantas has chosen the path of maximum psychological pressure of its flightcrew throough spreading of redundancy rumours, both on forums and selected media. They have made an announcement of an announcent to give us time to stew over whats to come and make us more maleable when they finally try to make us eat a sh.t sandwich. They have BB out in the media going on about our demise. For a long time they have been ramping up the pressure, taking away our career options, deliberately to break us. Now its there choice to go about it this way, I have no problems with that.

My concern is that for a lot of junior crew, things are getting pretty stressful both in the flightdeck, and at home with the family as a result, and with PIA going on at the same time, I know a lot of crew are finding it incredibly difficult to keep their mind on the job.

The question is, who would you speak to if this was becoming an issue. I would have thought the fleet manager, but with a Captain being stood down for expressing an opinion, and a chief pilot who is obviously there just to serve his masters, I don't think going to the company is an option any more.

Surely there needs to be some pilot representation on the company side, or is it just Sh.t flowing down hill.
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Old 31st Jul 2011, 05:02
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Qantas Contradictions

Thought this might be a useful thread to highlight all the contradictory statements QF (and J*) have and will make in the Media during this 'interesting' period.

If we head each post with the appropriate title (PIA/Wages/Hours...etc) then we might be able to gather enough info for a journo to look into it.

He's what appears to be a wages contradiction:

Herald Sun July 29. BB
Both airlines said the base pay for pilots -- around $110,000 for a Jetstar wide-bodied aircraft first officer and $190,000 for a captain -- were about equal and consistent with international standards.
Then this: Qantas spokesman July 11
Qantas said the pilot's demands included free flights on top of already heavily discounted airfares and a requirement that pilots on all Qantas airlines, including Jetstar, are paid the same high rates as Qantas pilots.
So which is it?? Qantas pilots on high wages, or J* and Qantas about equal?

Feel free to add. The more that we can show these people are making stuff up to suit them, the more their credibility (if they had any) will be shot to pieces.

Perhaps we keep this thread as a storage for contradictory quotes, and keep the discussions to the other active threads.

Cool names.
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Old 31st Jul 2011, 07:37
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Are the PIA PAs being made a lot of the time.

My missus traveled up to London on staff travel a few days ago and on both sectors she heard no PIA PA made. She didn't sleep on either sector so didn't miss it. Aren't there supposed to be two per sector on the longer flights?

It was an A380. Are the tech crew on the international routes making them much? Maybe the cabin crew can comment, they would know best.

Last edited by Autobrakes4; 31st Jul 2011 at 10:40.
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Old 31st Jul 2011, 08:48
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Bruce says we've only just become profitable by upping the price of muffins, otherwise Jetstar makes no money......18/5/2011

http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/jetstar-makes-more-money-from-muffins-than-tickets/story-e6frfq80-1226057942626

As opposed to...."Jetstar is such an amazing business...."
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Old 31st Jul 2011, 09:02
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Bruce says we've only just become profitable by upping the price of muffins, otherwise Jetstar makes no money......18/5/2011
Why not just fa#k off the aircraft and open a muffin shop.
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Old 31st Jul 2011, 09:45
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It's only those covered by the long haul EBA making the PAs, which also happens to include the 767 lads flying on domestic routes seeing as they are covered by the same agreement.

I heard two last week (on separate flights), one during cruise and one just prior to disembarkation as the aerobridge was being attached. The one during cruise definitely had more people paying attention as once the seatbelt sign is off, people start focusing on getting their bags out of the overhead lockers and getting off the aircraft.
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Old 31st Jul 2011, 09:52
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Dragun, I'm pretty sure the A380 is on the long haul award, hence my query!
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Old 31st Jul 2011, 09:56
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Yea I'm pretty sure of that too and if you already knew it, then I guess that makes your question
Are the tech crew on the international routes making them?
a little stupid. I was merely answering it.

Tell your mrs to pay attention next time.
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Old 31st Jul 2011, 10:02
  #292 (permalink)  
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There is no requirement to make the PA. Individuals (read Captains) may choose to make the PA or not. They CANNOT be forced to do so by the union and no FO or SO is going to make the PA without the Captain's say so.

Remember, only 83% total of the eligible pilots voted for PIA. While that is an overwhelming majority, the 17% who didn't probably incorporate some of the most senior captains on the retirement bus.

They may choose to make the PA or not. Fair enough, that's their choice. For example, I reckon it's a pretty fair bet that the PA wasn't made on Friday night's QF30!
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Old 31st Jul 2011, 10:10
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A very fair bet indeed!
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Old 31st Jul 2011, 10:28
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She was listening. No pa's were made.

I paxed on a 330 last week. No pa was made.

So not all tech crew are making them, hence my question.
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Old 31st Jul 2011, 10:32
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You didn't ask if they were all making them. You asked if international crew are making them - which they are. However as has been pointed out, they do not have to. Case closed.
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Old 31st Jul 2011, 10:35
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He told BusinessDaily last night that the profit from sales of ancillary items - such as cups of coffee, muffins, baggage and special seat charges - was about $24 a passenger.
2010 HY Report
Jetstar Domestic
Passengers carried 4,921,000 x $24 = $118,104,000

Jetstar Internaional
Passengers carried 2,069,000 x $24 = $49,656,000

Jetstar Asia
Passengers carried 1,391,000 x $24 = $33,384,000

Total ancillary revenue for Jetstar group = $201,144,000 half year 2010 (@$24 per pax)

That seems to be at odds with something..
Even if we just put Jetstar Domestic in the equation..

The 2010 HY Results http://www.qantas.com.au/infodetail/...0HYResults.pdf

Page 11: Revenue and other income, 3rd item down, it says Note 3 and $956 million in income. When we go to Note 3 on page 23..

Ancillary passenger revenue: $128million. <- for the Qantas group!

Total ancillary revenue for Jetstar group = $201,144,000 half year 2010 (@$24 per pax as per Bruce Buchanan in Jetstar makes more money from muffins than tickets | News.com.au <-this article)

Even if we apportion the whole amount of "intersegment revenue" as on page 21, of $45million to Qantas Frequent Flyer paying Jetstar for some seats for FF member who have redeemed flights, it still doesn't come close to the $201million BB alleges Jetstar makes.

I may be using the same calculator that Alan Joyce has been using to justify his war on the LAMEs and Pilots, if I'm wrong please tell me. I'm humble enough to accept it.

Last edited by 600ft-lb; 31st Jul 2011 at 11:34.
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Old 31st Jul 2011, 10:44
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I will make myself clearer Dragun.

I am a long haul pilot and make the pa's, usually twice per sector. I was wondering how frequently they are being made because I am hearing of a few instances of them not being made.
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Old 31st Jul 2011, 11:07
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Funny they didn't put a320 pay scales in that media beatup. How about 130k for capt and 65k for f/o's all in NZD? Is that in line with international standards??
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Old 31st Jul 2011, 11:16
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....no FO or SO is going to make the PA without the Captain's say so.
An interesting statement and a scenario I've wondered about. I'm not a respondent to the Long Haul award so cannot partake in any action. But I am ex Long Haul, know many of the guys there, how they feel and know what I, as an ex-LH F/O, would have thought and wanted to do. So, what if the Captain does not want to make a PA but the F/O does?

I am wondering what are the legalities under industrial laws if one pilot orders another pilot not to partake in industrial action. If the action does not compromise safety is it lawful to forbid it? if ever there was a conflict between Captain's authority and an individual's industrial rights, this is it.

Fortunately, I think most LH Captains are pretty reasonable blokes these days, furthermore a big majority of Captains obviously voted in favour of action. So the issue should rarely arise; Captains would either be supportive or indifferent at worst. There ARE a few exceptions though and the management pilots do a little flying too, of course..... It would be a VERY interesting if the FO wanted to do the PIA PA on one of THOSE flights.....

I wonder if the FO on the QF30 Friday night wanted to do a PA? I wonder if he asked OM?! Maybe sneaked one out during OM's break???!!!
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Old 31st Jul 2011, 11:26
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Flew qf to perth last week on 747... No pa :-(
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