QF Pilots PIA
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Good work 600ft-lb.
It would be good if we could find some sort of concrete link between QF and these "grass-roots" supporters. Generally, when Astroturfing schemes get brought out into the sun it backfires rather spectacularly for the company concerned... It seems people don't enjoy being lied to
It would be good if we could find some sort of concrete link between QF and these "grass-roots" supporters. Generally, when Astroturfing schemes get brought out into the sun it backfires rather spectacularly for the company concerned... It seems people don't enjoy being lied to
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Half the comments misspell "Qantas" and one calls us "pre madonnas", so I don't think we're dealing with Rhodes scholars here.
Last edited by ejectx3; 8th Aug 2011 at 07:11.
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Don't worry too much, all this dribble will be lost this week because of the GFC 2 headlines. Having said that, may I suggest, where ever we see this stuff online, comment but do exactly as 600ft-lb has done and we can counter the claims with the editor, by passing it on with a copy to pprune. I have been monitoring Joe Hildebrand and Co since last week and saving it for a rainy day. (similar to the Murdoch press stuff in London.)
What I can say, the Q PR department must be very sensitive at the moment to engage this style of spin which will be easy to expose before the 24th. I am just waiting for them to hang themselves. (I believe they all ready have, more later on that)
I congratulate 600ft-lb for his/her fine efforts in exposing these clowns, and all the other good stuff he/she has been posting on here. Kudos
What I can say, the Q PR department must be very sensitive at the moment to engage this style of spin which will be easy to expose before the 24th. I am just waiting for them to hang themselves. (I believe they all ready have, more later on that)
I congratulate 600ft-lb for his/her fine efforts in exposing these clowns, and all the other good stuff he/she has been posting on here. Kudos
It is heartening to see that the latest PR stunt has generally failed to get any bites out there except by Hildebrand.
Qantas Pilots Hit Back on ?Spa? Smear Campaign
So a (falsified) statement was 'leaked' to the media ? Is that what this journalist is saying ?
At least this report in the above link gave the 'leak' what it deserves, contempt and sought out a reliable source for a factual side of the story. Congrats to the non-murdoch media.
Qantas Pilots Hit Back on ?Spa? Smear Campaign
Qantas pilots have slammed claims they are seeking spas and massages as part of their industrial campaign against the airline. Earlier, a statement of claim that has obtained by media revealed the Australian International Pilots Association wants its members to get access to business and first-class lounges, which in Sydney has spas, massages, facials, a full menu from Neil Perry, a full bar and a library.
At least this report in the above link gave the 'leak' what it deserves, contempt and sought out a reliable source for a factual side of the story. Congrats to the non-murdoch media.
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"It's pretty disappointing that Qantas PR would run such a silly smear campaign.
"I urge Alan Joyce to instruct his PR team: stop this dishonest and pointless attack and let's work on a solution that will satisfy the Australian travelling public," Captain Woodward said
"I urge Alan Joyce to instruct his PR team: stop this dishonest and pointless attack and let's work on a solution that will satisfy the Australian travelling public," Captain Woodward said
Last edited by TIMA9X; 8th Aug 2011 at 09:11.
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I think the sheer absurdity QF Media are prepared to go to like this latest one is an example of a fair bit of uncoordinated disarray at the top end of Qantas.
Of the two groups, AIPA is the one coming across as cool, calm, and very measured in their responses. QF are coming across as shooting from the hip, putting out completely contradictory media releases at various times, having spokespeople say stuff which is easily refuted, and some really amateurish attempts to spin the facts into something quite ludicrous.
Like many other QF pilots, I'm fully aware of the small list of claims we presented to Qantas. Spas, massages and facials were not among them! Also the industrial action itself is over one claim, and the only claim which they have refused to even discuss: The "scope clause" claim for Qantas mainline flying.
Of the two groups, AIPA is the one coming across as cool, calm, and very measured in their responses. QF are coming across as shooting from the hip, putting out completely contradictory media releases at various times, having spokespeople say stuff which is easily refuted, and some really amateurish attempts to spin the facts into something quite ludicrous.
Like many other QF pilots, I'm fully aware of the small list of claims we presented to Qantas. Spas, massages and facials were not among them! Also the industrial action itself is over one claim, and the only claim which they have refused to even discuss: The "scope clause" claim for Qantas mainline flying.
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"Some of the best pilots in the world"
In the same article regarding pilot's claims, a QANTAS spokesperson (unnamed) stated "Qantas has some of the best pilots in the world ... the airline said in a statement."
So one could logically question why would they be pushing to employ non "QANTAS pilots" on QF flights? Wouldn't you expect that you would want to have some of the best pilots in the world working for your company?
To most if not all, a flight number that is QF would appear to be a QANTAS flight, wouldn't it?
So one could logically question why would they be pushing to employ non "QANTAS pilots" on QF flights? Wouldn't you expect that you would want to have some of the best pilots in the world working for your company?
To most if not all, a flight number that is QF would appear to be a QANTAS flight, wouldn't it?
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The real issue with the PR battle is what will the consumers reaction be when, come Aug 24, the bulk of the QF international operation will be off shored and likely flown / maintained by foreigners.
QF doesn't need to win the PR battle, just land enough blows to convince the consumer that:
- there will be no reduction in 'safety' when QF flights are flown by Captain Rujput Japarti from Mumbai whose professional standards involve a forged logbook and a ATPL obtained through bribing a government official; and
- airfares will get lower.
If consumer behaviour is influenced by the AIPA campaign, and there is a backlash against 'Qantas Asia", then Qantas will have no choice but to change its plans.
AIPA on the other hand, must play every aspect of the campaign with a straight bat. Unlike Qantas it cannot lie or distort the truth, or resort to employing gutter journalists like Joe Hildebrand.
So the contest is one sided in a sense. Still, we have not had a defining even in the PIA campaign yet (such as during the waterfront dispute when masked guards with attack dogs were seen to be 'menacing' women and children on the picket line).
Overall I think AIPA is doing the best it can. Only time will tell if its enough or not.
QF doesn't need to win the PR battle, just land enough blows to convince the consumer that:
- there will be no reduction in 'safety' when QF flights are flown by Captain Rujput Japarti from Mumbai whose professional standards involve a forged logbook and a ATPL obtained through bribing a government official; and
- airfares will get lower.
If consumer behaviour is influenced by the AIPA campaign, and there is a backlash against 'Qantas Asia", then Qantas will have no choice but to change its plans.
AIPA on the other hand, must play every aspect of the campaign with a straight bat. Unlike Qantas it cannot lie or distort the truth, or resort to employing gutter journalists like Joe Hildebrand.
So the contest is one sided in a sense. Still, we have not had a defining even in the PIA campaign yet (such as during the waterfront dispute when masked guards with attack dogs were seen to be 'menacing' women and children on the picket line).
Overall I think AIPA is doing the best it can. Only time will tell if its enough or not.
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Once again I'd caution you to not hear what you want to hear but to analyse the situation. The message that pilots want spas and massages in the lounge with full paying customers is one that resonates with the public and is easily repeated by anyone who hears it.
BBQ/water cooler/elevator etc scene:
Person 1: Those Qantas pilots want to get a massage and spa at work before they take off!
Person 2: I know! Whenever I have a massage I always come out feeling loose and tired! Is this really safe??
1: Exactly! And why do pilots want to go into the business class lounge with customers? Where else do employees mix with staff? Don't they have their own facilitites?
and so on.
Not to say it would go exactly like that, but try repeating the pilot position in a way that resonates as easily in as short a timeframe and you get to the crux of the communication problem.
BBQ/water cooler/elevator etc scene:
Person 1: Those Qantas pilots want to get a massage and spa at work before they take off!
Person 2: I know! Whenever I have a massage I always come out feeling loose and tired! Is this really safe??
1: Exactly! And why do pilots want to go into the business class lounge with customers? Where else do employees mix with staff? Don't they have their own facilitites?
and so on.
Not to say it would go exactly like that, but try repeating the pilot position in a way that resonates as easily in as short a timeframe and you get to the crux of the communication problem.
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Originally Posted by mohikan
If consumer behaviour is influenced by the AIPA campaign, and there is a backlash against 'Qantas Asia", then Qantas will have no choice but to change its plans.
Mr Alan Joyce today said "I'm not sure what the pilots are on about, if they have direct knowledge that people are fraudulently claiming to have qualifications then they should say so otherwise they're just spreading irresponsible malicious gossip.
As for Qantas Asia, well, Singapore Airlines, Emirates and the like do a pretty damn good job making life hard for us at Qantas, we're just doing what they're doing to stay afloat. I'm not sure why the pilots think that they're so special, we're all competing in the global economy, airlines more than most and our pilot qualification requirements are a global standard, simple as that".
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Romulus, you would be correct if the message really did resonate with the public. My take on it is that it failed miserably, partially due to the fact that people are probably more worried about external factors at the moment.
I do think that the very fact that they tried it means they are running out of ideas about how to distract away from the AIPA message of "Qantas pilots for Qantas flights."
On a side note, I got cheered by a punter as I came through the terminal a few days ago. Definitely a first!
I do think that the very fact that they tried it means they are running out of ideas about how to distract away from the AIPA message of "Qantas pilots for Qantas flights."
On a side note, I got cheered by a punter as I came through the terminal a few days ago. Definitely a first!
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Yeah romulus I tend to agree with Kremin on this one. Plus the fact that the message is quite silly itself. It's pretty easy to show that pilots don't have time for preflight spas, massages and facials! The concept is quite ludicrous, and while some sections of joe public might be gullible, they're not necessarily that gullible.
QF are not winning the PR battle here. Once again, yesterday we received multiple positive comments and zero negative ones, to the PA. One lady even specifically stopped at the door, turned around, and stated that she is not going to fly with Qantas anymore if they put cheap imported pilots in the seats.
AIPA are running to a very cool deliberate plan here with measured responses. Qantas Corporate are releasing contradictory media statements, and feeding almost totally random stuff to anyone who will listen, from 4th tier low ranking journos to Mr Nobodies with youtube accounts. All this in among trying to reign in senior Managers who go off the rails with brain snaps which make the company look like high school bullies in the public eye. The Qantas response isn't like the mining tax campaign. It is rank amateur stuff so far.
QF are not winning the PR battle here. Once again, yesterday we received multiple positive comments and zero negative ones, to the PA. One lady even specifically stopped at the door, turned around, and stated that she is not going to fly with Qantas anymore if they put cheap imported pilots in the seats.
AIPA are running to a very cool deliberate plan here with measured responses. Qantas Corporate are releasing contradictory media statements, and feeding almost totally random stuff to anyone who will listen, from 4th tier low ranking journos to Mr Nobodies with youtube accounts. All this in among trying to reign in senior Managers who go off the rails with brain snaps which make the company look like high school bullies in the public eye. The Qantas response isn't like the mining tax campaign. It is rank amateur stuff so far.
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Dutchroll,
I understand the tactics but I really wonder if the message is getting out there beyond SLF, I sincerely hope so.
The real problem that is being faced is that the Rat is a trusted brand and beyond this site and the insiders, joe public may be sceptical of what they read but I suspect generally just keep focussing on the Brand without realising what is going on or being confronted with the truth that this is not about spas and facials.
They need to understand that this WILL affect them and that these people are NOT to be trusted under any circumstances.
As usual just my opinion.
I understand the tactics but I really wonder if the message is getting out there beyond SLF, I sincerely hope so.
The real problem that is being faced is that the Rat is a trusted brand and beyond this site and the insiders, joe public may be sceptical of what they read but I suspect generally just keep focussing on the Brand without realising what is going on or being confronted with the truth that this is not about spas and facials.
They need to understand that this WILL affect them and that these people are NOT to be trusted under any circumstances.
As usual just my opinion.
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PIA ! What PIA! seems to me it that it is a fizzler . yes , I know AIPA are "running"a campaignthat is low key . Hmmm , now how many campaigns have AIPA run in the last 30 years , let me count , umm would that be zero.
So , please have a go if you are serious , or is it a Claytons campaign , run on PPrUne but not on the stump . You guys are not real Unionists , you belong to Associations , don't you . Ah well keep the red flag flying high.
So , please have a go if you are serious , or is it a Claytons campaign , run on PPrUne but not on the stump . You guys are not real Unionists , you belong to Associations , don't you . Ah well keep the red flag flying high.
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Getting back to the PIA....
FAIR WORK AUSTRALIA
ORDER
Fair Work Act 2009
s.459 - Application to extend the period in which industrial action is authorised by protected action ballot
Australian and International Pilots Association
v
Qantas Airways Limited
(B2011/3244)
COMMISSIONER RAFFAELLI
BRISBANE, 8 AUGUST 2011
Extension of period for authorised industrial action.
A. Pursuant to s.459(3) of the Fair Work Act 2009 (the Act) the period during which industrial action authorised by the ballot order by Commissioner Raffaelli on 26 May 2011 [PR509954] (and as varied by orders on 6 June 2011 [PR510262] and 15 June 2011 [PR510491]) is extended from 9 August to 6 September 2011.
COMMISSIONER
Notice:
FAIR WORK AUSTRALIA
ORDER
Fair Work Act 2009
s.459 - Application to extend the period in which industrial action is authorised by protected action ballot
Australian and International Pilots Association
v
Qantas Airways Limited
(B2011/3244)
COMMISSIONER RAFFAELLI
BRISBANE, 8 AUGUST 2011
Extension of period for authorised industrial action.
A. Pursuant to s.459(3) of the Fair Work Act 2009 (the Act) the period during which industrial action authorised by the ballot order by Commissioner Raffaelli on 26 May 2011 [PR509954] (and as varied by orders on 6 June 2011 [PR510262] and 15 June 2011 [PR510491]) is extended from 9 August to 6 September 2011.
COMMISSIONER
Notice:
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I don't know why we bother sometimes......
Okay people, let's start again. This thread is skating on thin ice at the moment. I was going to delete it, however I believe it is important enough to keep going - for the time being.
One of the main troublemakers will not be back. Let's keep it civil, and to the point, okay?
TID
One of the main troublemakers will not be back. Let's keep it civil, and to the point, okay?
TID
With regard to the QF32 A380 incident, wasn't there about 5 pilots including examiners and instructors on board? You would assume they would get it right wouldn't you?
Are you aware of the biggest single accident in the history of aviation in Tenerife? A KLM jumbo collided with a PAN AM jumbo killing over 500 souls - and it was primarily caused by the KLM Captain. He was (from memory), at the time, the 747 Fleet Manager and head of check and training for KLM.