QF to EK on LWOP

[Sonny Hammond]

If you take the LWO and then want to come back to QF and you would have been made redundant so there is no job for you then what happens?

No job = redundancy payout upon return?

[Mstr Caution]

So lets this straight.

It's ok to take LWOP to go to EK as an FO. Massive expansion at EK so maybe get a command during that three year period. Then return to QF, all the while the company is gifting FO's to EK with thousands of hours experience.

Meanwhile, if you transfer to J* & subsequantly take a Command, you forfeit the right of return to Qantas.

J* recruiting 200 hour low time FO's, whilst EK take the experienced ones.!

This industry has gone to the dogs!

[Quill Shaft]

If you take the LWO and then want to come back to QF and you would have been made redundant so there is no job for you then what happens?

No job = redundancy payout upon return?

It would probably depend on what the AIPA negotiate with QF, but as I understand it if you go on LWOP and there is no job for you when you get back, you are not automatically entitled to a redundancy package.

[rmcdonal]

3. If EK treats us poorly, they KNOW we will leave in three years. Other joiners are more tied to the place. We are not the answer to their problem.
8th Jul 2011 18:28

And that right there is the problem. If you don't go then EK has to raise the conditions to keep and attract pilots, with you they don't because they know you are leaving in 3 years. You don't see it as your issue buts that's because you are going to be the problem. By helping to keep EKs crewing costs down, you increase the issue of operating costs in Australia trying to compete with EK. After 3 years you go home to find that you don't have a job, or that your conditions are crap all because the airline has had to compete with EK at there lower rate.
I have no dramas with an LOA to go and try something else out for a while, or to help start up an airline in a part of the world with little or no talent, however a mass LOA like this just screws the industry for the rest of us, and ultimately for you.

[1a sound asleep]

AJ addresses the board

AJ - So why are we paying all the pilots such high wages. They are just bus drivers and computer operators. We can get away with far lower costs

BOARD - Lower costs sound good but what about our unblemished safety record. We need to have the best pilots

AJ - We have invested billions of dollars in new technology. These planes fly themselves with all the new computers and they have 3 back up systems. All the profitable airlines are doing it. Do you want to make profits?

BOARD - Ok. Then go away and do it. WE have trust in your decisions but how are you going to get rid of all the pilots earning huge money?

AJ - I will sell them to somebody else. I have it all worked out

[Mstr Caution]

Quill,

I'd have to investigate it further.

But I believe they will take you back at the end of the LWOP.

If however, things turn pear shaped & you want to come back earlier ie: after 6 months of a 3 year LWOP. They are under no obligation to take you back until the 3 years have elapsed & you can't seek a redundancy payout at that earlier time.

So if it doesnt work out, your effectively shut out for the three years.

[clear to land]

Reference Tims Point 2:
You ARE NOT on the same conditions as EK Pilots as the EK Pilot had to RESIGN from their previous employer. Anyone who comes is helping EK to AVOID raising T & C's due to helping fix the pilot recruitment shortage-which is biting now. Also, anyone who thinks they will get a Command within 3 years is seriously deluded. Enjoy your Sub Continent night turns boys (and girls)

[Sonny Hammond]

Rmcdonal,

You right. Absolutely correct.

So, 100 pilots from QF don't go so as to maintain the high moral road.

Is that going to change anything in the 'big picture' of this whole situation?

I seriously doubt it but you are completely correct in your assertion.

So, do the QF guys facing a bleak future after 10 yrs of being given the pointy end of the pineapple, ignore this opportunity to their personal loss so as to protect the local airline industry?

Interesting dilemma but I know where my money is going...

[Angle of Attack]

Still reckon its better to force them to make you redundant, take your money then go and work for another mob, nice cash bonus year!

[Shark Patrol]

Interesting (sad?) that after so many years of ex-EK pilots coming back to Australia to screw this country's T&Cs that now the situation may be about to reverse itself!

[piston broke again]

Amazing all this comes out on a Friday afternoon so it can't get picked up/analysed by mainstream media. Joyce had been under his rock all week and comes out at beer o'clock on a Friday.

[Jackneville]

There goes our future.

LWOP is meaningless if there is no mainline to return to. I fear that the time-line for mainline's demise has just been defined and it is less than three years. F#&K !

[Beg Tibs]

I did try to formulate an opinion then I went blank. Strange times - might I ask what the majority of current Emirates drivers think of this ?

[Wizofoz]

Can anyone comment on the tax implications of this? EK money is OK tax free, but can someone on a three year LWOP be considered non-resident for tax purposes?

[SOPS]

Well for those that do come here..welcome...but please dont sit next to me and say "Thats how we do it in Qantas"....we are in Emirates now, and you have taken on ALL that involves, and believe me, it involves a lot...and remember there is no AIPA here to help you out

[Shot Nancy]

Massive expansion at EK so maybe get a command during that three year period.

Not while on LWOP from another airline you won't.

but can someone on a three year LWOP be considered non-resident for tax purposes?

I am no expert but is your intention to return to OZ?

Caveat emptor.

[Wizofoz]

I am no expert but is your intention to return to OZ?

Caveat emptor.

The question wasn't for myself, Nancy, I'm one of the guys who will be training our Big White Rat visitors!!

[Tempo]

QF lwop is having your cake and eating it too. I agree with LR3 completely.
If you are unhappy with quaintass then quit and by all means come on over to EK. Otherwise you are screwing your fellow pilots in Dubai and in oz.
You will not get your command in 3 years. No way hose'

Mate are you serious?. So are you telling me that if you were a Qantas pilot considering EK you wouldn't take LWOP instead of resigning???? Before selling everything, uprooting the family and committing to a life overseas for 20 years you had a free shot for 3 years to see whether the life in Dubai was going to work.

I will take no as not a serious response.

BTW, the guys and girls that go will probably at some stage read the EK contract which clearly states that 36 months is required in the company before an upgrade.

[halas]

@ Shark Patrol

Name two EK drivers who have returned to Australia "to screw this country's T&Cs"

I think you will find these were well and truly established before they returned to Oz.

There is no reversal of condition deterioration.

NZ have had this contract in place for the last three or so years. Some have gone back. Others have stayed. All the guys l flew with from the NZ contract - Top blokes and wish you all the best!

If anyone thinks that <120 candidates on a temporary contract is going to have any significant change on T&C at EK is dreaming. With more than 700 required in the next 12 months and more than 2700 already on the list, the reasoning does not stand.

Look forward to flying with any willing QF FO.

halas

[atyourcervix73]

What Halas said.

Guys wanting to come here on LWOP need to realize a few things about this place.

1. QF it certainly is not, not in terms of the labour relations environment, nor the route structure.
2. Get used to covering your arse, everyone looks after number 1, there is no collective will here.
3. Get used to flying with a multitude of nationalities, many of whom will have less than positive thoughts about flying with Ozmates/QF guys.
4. Get used to being able to only get one thing done per day, this place is run via the Phillipines and the subcontinent mindset.
5. Get used to the rightseat, a command wont come up for at least 5 years at the present rate of expansion.

Lastly, get used to driving to Barracuda