Chile Volcano Plume and NZ Airspace
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
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This is not an excuse for Jetstar to cancel flights!!! 
We have had staff communications today since the cancellations that state it is Qantas policy that flights can't operate 'under' forecast ash cloud which has led to the cancellations for both Qantas and Jetstar. It is an interesting situation as obviously the most safe option is to have aircraft on the ground and not risk a ash cloud encounter. Having said that though, I also wouldn't say that operating at lower altitudes is necessarily unsafe. I guess it comes down to a 'gut call'.
We have had staff communications today since the cancellations that state it is Qantas policy that flights can't operate 'under' forecast ash cloud which has led to the cancellations for both Qantas and Jetstar. It is an interesting situation as obviously the most safe option is to have aircraft on the ground and not risk a ash cloud encounter. Having said that though, I also wouldn't say that operating at lower altitudes is necessarily unsafe. I guess it comes down to a 'gut call'.
Yes lets dispense with all manuals and SOP's and operate on "Gut call".
Operations: Sorry due to policy we cannot operate under an ash cloud
Pilot: No worries mate! Its a gut call, I will blast off and operate low level at night over LSALT's above 10,000ft, I know best, she'll be right mate....
Day VMC may be a suitable day to operate under an volcanic ash plume as was the case today. In IMC or at night it may not be best to trust a prediction of how low the ash cloud particles actually are.
Not a nice feeling to get erroneous engine indications and all the other tell tale signs at FL180 at night over the South Island because the prediction was wrong or had changed since the last update.
From my information the affected area changes significantly with each 6 hourly update.
Good luck with the "gut call".
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Just heard that Qantas and Jetstar have cancelled EVERYTHING in and out of Melbourne from 6pm today, true??
Volcanic ash from the eruption of Mt Puyehue Cordon Caulle in Chile, will cause significant flight disruptions on Sunday 12 June 2011.
The Australian Volcanic Ash Advisory Centre (VAAC) has advised airspace in Tasmania, Melbourne and New Zealand has been impacted.
The following Qantas and Qantas Link services will be affected on Sunday 12 June:
Cancelled Flights
- Services in and out of Tasmania
- Services between Australia New Zealand.
- Services in and out of Melbourne from 6pm local.
- QF26 Los Angeles to Auckland, scheduled to depart at 1140pm local Saturday 11 June 2011 - now rescheduled to depart at 8.00am local on Sunday 12 June 2011.
http"//www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/flight-status/global/en
Join Date: Nov 1999
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Limited Risk,
What I am saying is there is obviously a difference of opinion here. Air NZ has deemed it safe to operate whereas Qantas has deemed it unsafe to operate, who is right?? I don't really care either way, I am just wondering who has made the policy for both airlines, what was this based on, at some stage it must have been a 'judgement call' as to whether you fly or don't fly. Sorry if the term 'gut call' has offended you but ultimately it does come down to a judgement as shown by the fact that some airlines are flying and some are not. I personally am with you, I would refuse to fly at night, as I don't trust forecasts and predictions that much, but as I type I can still hear Air NZ aircraft operating from the local airport and it is dark, so other Captains must be happy to trust those predictions. Thankfully Qantas took the decision out of my hands.
What I am saying is there is obviously a difference of opinion here. Air NZ has deemed it safe to operate whereas Qantas has deemed it unsafe to operate, who is right?? I don't really care either way, I am just wondering who has made the policy for both airlines, what was this based on, at some stage it must have been a 'judgement call' as to whether you fly or don't fly. Sorry if the term 'gut call' has offended you but ultimately it does come down to a judgement as shown by the fact that some airlines are flying and some are not. I personally am with you, I would refuse to fly at night, as I don't trust forecasts and predictions that much, but as I type I can still hear Air NZ aircraft operating from the local airport and it is dark, so other Captains must be happy to trust those predictions. Thankfully Qantas took the decision out of my hands.
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Sandilands reports Tiger has grounded entire operation for the night and that the Qantas decision came from the invisibility of the ash on jet radars making night times flights too risky.
Qantas Melbourne flights cancelled from 6 pm because of ash | Plane Talking
Qantas Melbourne flights cancelled from 6 pm because of ash | Plane Talking
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The risk the airlines have to weigh up is the post encounter maintenance costs; it's not so much about avoiding multiple engine failures like the BA 747 over Indonesia – they were in high density cloud for quite some time.
One post ash encounter schedule I've seen includes: changing engine oil completely, a boroscope of the engines, pitot system tests and many more items within 50 hours. As the cloud density increases from low to medium, there is a lot more to be done – and sooner.
It grounds the aircraft for a while and the log-book entry will be used by a future buyer to push the price down.
One post ash encounter schedule I've seen includes: changing engine oil completely, a boroscope of the engines, pitot system tests and many more items within 50 hours. As the cloud density increases from low to medium, there is a lot more to be done – and sooner.
It grounds the aircraft for a while and the log-book entry will be used by a future buyer to push the price down.
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Remember also that the Air NZ group is the only airline in NZ with extensive experience operating around volcanic ash clouds in NZ airspace....although this is admittedly a different case, with a different type of cloud, there were several large eruptions of Mt Ruapehu in the central North Island during the late 90s. From memory, very few flights were cancelled.
Whatever the airline, I'm sure the PiC retains the final call...afterall, the pilots don't want to risk their lives either!
Whatever the airline, I'm sure the PiC retains the final call...afterall, the pilots don't want to risk their lives either!
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Qantas saying its too dangerous to operate flights into Melbourne but jetstar showing Melbourne inbound flights on schedule... How can that be? Do JQ aircraft have volcanic ash radar that QF do not have, or is it that JQ flightcrew are better trained and more experienced and can therefore negotiate the hazard?
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AH,
Understand completely, I'm with you, wouldn't be going after dark.
Basically the plume is over the West to East coast and soon to extend up to the far north if the predictions are accurate. Therefore there is no lateral deviation available such as there may be up in Indonesia with a localised erruption for example. So the only option is to fly under it.
And how do you guarantee avoiding it based on a prediction that has not been entirely accurate throughout the last 24hrs, after dark or in IMC?
Looks like Air NZ is still operating with their amended flightplan tracking after dark......
Understand completely, I'm with you, wouldn't be going after dark.
Basically the plume is over the West to East coast and soon to extend up to the far north if the predictions are accurate. Therefore there is no lateral deviation available such as there may be up in Indonesia with a localised erruption for example. So the only option is to fly under it.
And how do you guarantee avoiding it based on a prediction that has not been entirely accurate throughout the last 24hrs, after dark or in IMC?
Looks like Air NZ is still operating with their amended flightplan tracking after dark......
There really is something about Olivia Wirth that is just so grating. She's a terrible spokesperson - even for something as cut and dry as a volcanic ash issue... She always sounds like she's on the defensive - wonder why? 
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QF26 Los Angeles to Auckland, scheduled to depart at 1140pm local Saturday 11 June 2011 - now rescheduled to depart at 8.00am local on Sunday 12 June 2011.
QF26 re scheduled for an 0810 dep ex LAX
Nothing to do with ash cloud