Ansett closure at last
Evertonian
Similar to what happened in Sunbury Anthill, but I've not seen any figures released. Sudden surge of properties on the market drove the prices down, compounding the issue for those that HAD to sell!
Luckily, we had a "generous" bank that allowed us to stop repayments. Interest kept climbing & we ate up all the money that we were "ahead" with, but we kept the house. I think it was almost 3 years before we restarted our payments and not once did we get a call from the Bank asking us when we were planning to start paying it off.
Luckily, we had a "generous" bank that allowed us to stop repayments. Interest kept climbing & we ate up all the money that we were "ahead" with, but we kept the house. I think it was almost 3 years before we restarted our payments and not once did we get a call from the Bank asking us when we were planning to start paying it off.
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The demise of Ansett taught me a lot. First- Never trust an Employer, Second- Never trust the Government, Third - Never think you are irreplaceable, Fourth- Never overcommit yourself financially, Fifth- When the "Culture" of a Company changes for the worse, & you can sense it, Resign.
When it was Good ,Ansett was GREAT. When it was Bad, Ansett was absolutely HORRIBLE!!!!!
I just try & think of the Good times........
When it was Good ,Ansett was GREAT. When it was Bad, Ansett was absolutely HORRIBLE!!!!!
I just try & think of the Good times........
It may be worth remembering that of the 830 pilots at Ansett, only about 550 were working as pilots 4 years later. A lot of industrial knowledge lost forever.
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'Croc' that's good advice for sure but we plebs can't buy a house which is the biggest financial commitment in our lives without having a job, there's two of 'yr never trust/commit' suggestions unavoidable. Govt's? Well that's a given, NONE of us trust ANY Govt especially the mad woman at the helm these days!
Lastly as we have seen in recent times with the QF/J* antics we plebs are definitely replaceable.
I reckon those that did work for Ansett in the good 'ole days where proud & would have many a fond memory, those memories no high powered business man or Govt can take away.
Roll on the next ice-age, we need a good clean out !!!!!
Wmk2
Lastly as we have seen in recent times with the QF/J* antics we plebs are definitely replaceable.I reckon those that did work for Ansett in the good 'ole days where proud & would have many a fond memory, those memories no high powered business man or Govt can take away.
Roll on the next ice-age, we need a good clean out !!!!!
Wmk2
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10 cents in the dollar of outstanding monies owed- better than nothing I guess.
I had written it off from the start so all the payments drip fed to us over the last 9.5 years have been a bonus. I hope you all read ampclamp's newspaper article link. It still irks me that the government has actually made a tidy profit from Ansett's collapse. While employees will remain short changed and other creditors will get nothing. We should have got all our outstanding balances.
Water under the bridge - the collapse was hard on all of us to varying degrees.
The week after the collapse my wife had her work hours halved due to a new owner and cost cutting in the face of the extreme economic uncertainty of those days. We were hit with 1 and a half redundancies from 2 full time jobs.
All of a sudden I had to think about how I was going to meet the bills and when my teenage daughter was told she needed braces on her teeth - the $2500 cost tipped us over he edge for months. My dad helped out.
That said , I am in a way better place now. The collapse forced me out of my comfort zone and I am now realising my potential , academically and professionally in an entirely different occupation. I am only now making more money than 10 years ago and I'm working MANY more hours , with way more responsibility.
I chuckle to myself when I read about the threats made by the various unions at QF. Yes , management are a bunch of a#s#holes and things are tough on you but NEVER think your jobs are safe and your airline is immune from failure. I chuckle to myself at various reunions when I talk to some of my ex colleagues who were always whinging about AN management - working conditions etc. etc . Now they have a beer with me and tell me how good it was.
I hope QF employees won't have similar conversations in the future.
I had written it off from the start so all the payments drip fed to us over the last 9.5 years have been a bonus. I hope you all read ampclamp's newspaper article link. It still irks me that the government has actually made a tidy profit from Ansett's collapse. While employees will remain short changed and other creditors will get nothing. We should have got all our outstanding balances.
Water under the bridge - the collapse was hard on all of us to varying degrees.
The week after the collapse my wife had her work hours halved due to a new owner and cost cutting in the face of the extreme economic uncertainty of those days. We were hit with 1 and a half redundancies from 2 full time jobs.
All of a sudden I had to think about how I was going to meet the bills and when my teenage daughter was told she needed braces on her teeth - the $2500 cost tipped us over he edge for months. My dad helped out.
That said , I am in a way better place now. The collapse forced me out of my comfort zone and I am now realising my potential , academically and professionally in an entirely different occupation. I am only now making more money than 10 years ago and I'm working MANY more hours , with way more responsibility.
I chuckle to myself when I read about the threats made by the various unions at QF. Yes , management are a bunch of a#s#holes and things are tough on you but NEVER think your jobs are safe and your airline is immune from failure. I chuckle to myself at various reunions when I talk to some of my ex colleagues who were always whinging about AN management - working conditions etc. etc . Now they have a beer with me and tell me how good it was.
I hope QF employees won't have similar conversations in the future.
TBM perhaps you should investigate a little more closely what Ansett employees really got from the Howard government. A loan was provided by the government knowing full well it would be recovered by AN assets. Even then they were impatient and raised a ticket tax just in case...
So, 30,000 people unemployed in Australia's biggest corporate collapse was mitigated without much cost to government. The AN ticket tax went back into the government coffers. We didn't really get a "brass razoo" as you assert.
I even heard the money in the bank from our pilot union went to charity.
What I learn't from the AN collapse is a lot of folks, perversely, relished in other's misfortune. Especially those who bombed out in Ansett selection.
So, 30,000 people unemployed in Australia's biggest corporate collapse was mitigated without much cost to government. The AN ticket tax went back into the government coffers. We didn't really get a "brass razoo" as you assert.
I even heard the money in the bank from our pilot union went to charity.
What I learn't from the AN collapse is a lot of folks, perversely, relished in other's misfortune. Especially those who bombed out in Ansett selection.
Evertonian
There, but for the grace of God...eh Gnads.
Pity the Govt. of the day, or later Governments didn't decide to supply some of that tax to the other creditors. What we, as employees, got from asset sales (95% or so) is what we should get. The leftover from the tax would've been handy for those secondary creditors who had no chance of a return.
Pity the Govt. of the day, or later Governments didn't decide to supply some of that tax to the other creditors. What we, as employees, got from asset sales (95% or so) is what we should get. The leftover from the tax would've been handy for those secondary creditors who had no chance of a return.
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What I learn't from the AN collapse is a lot of folks, perversely, relished in other's misfortune. Especially those who bombed out in Ansett selection.
Some people are a waste of good oxygen. I was rejected by Ansett (for a F/A position) about a year before the collapse. At the time I was absolutely devastated, because I'd always wanted to work for them. That didn't for one nanosecond impact on the horror I felt for people I'd worked alongside that were suddenly out of work, many of them not really well qualified for non-airline employment and a bit old to retrain easily. Every now and then I wonder where some of them ended up, of course a lot of people stayed in the industry (ex-Ansett types pop up in the strangest of places) but for so many baggies, CS staff, caterers et al it must have been really hard to adjust somewhere else.
What I do remember as an outsider is how sudden it was, one day Ansett was there, the next, you showed up for work at the airport and...it was gone.
Was there much warning on the inside?
Evertonian
Was there much warning on the inside?
Evertonian
Indeed Groaner, but Sept. 13 is when we stopped flying IIRC. Prior to Sept. 11 I think they were trying to keep flying whilst sorting it out but the attacks on America sealed our fate.
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Take into account those who were near to retirement at the time of the collapse anyway and the picture looks a little better
Yeah, I think that there were about 70 guys who were in this position. It took me nearly a year to find a flying job, came close to giving up. I was accepted into NSW Ambulance as a paramedic (140 positions/5500 applicants-same SHL pyschometric as QF) then was offered a flying contract. I know of several young guys and girls who just never managed to resurect their careers-some very good operators, too. Many of these were under 40 when the music stopped.
What I learn't from the AN collapse is a lot of folks, perversely, relished in other's misfortune. Especially those who bombed out in Ansett selection
As for the collapse, it seemed to be coming from about the time that Paul Keating decided to merge TN and QF and then flog them off in a float. At that point AN started to lose a lot of big contracts- especially government contracts as QF was plumped up for the sale. The Defence Department contract was switched to QF even though it could not be serviced by their smaller domestic route network. Many of the larger companies switched their accounts to QF as their were obvious synergies.
There was nothing wrong with Ansett that $1,000,000,000 couldn't fix. Obviously there were too many types. QF and VB are on the same treadmil now. AN would have thrived had the B737 and B747s been ditched and replaced with A320s and B767-300ERs. Consider AN with say, 45 A320s and 15 B767s at the time. Air New Zealand becoming a shareholder for all the wrong reasons was the final reason for the downfall. The fallout was that the NZ taxpayer had to bail out ANZ to the tune of $4,400 for every man/woman/child in their country. The Howard government also saw the chance for some 'reform' in the airline industry- get rid of a large group of highly paid (although very productive) pilots, cabin crew and ground staff and let the new comer, Virgin, set the new industrial model. Tiger and Jetstar became the by-product of this new order.
The later point is the lesson for those at QF now. The government has your careers well and truely in their sights. You people make way to much money for the liking of those who make the rules. The aviation reform agenda is continuing and I don't like where it will probably end up. Neither will you. However, QF, TN and AN staff were all lucky enough to see the Golden Years of Airlines in this country.
EWP
Suggest you email [email protected] and ask the question.
By the way many 10 year reunions being planned throughout Australia to take place in Sep and Oct.
Suggest you email [email protected] and ask the question.
By the way many 10 year reunions being planned throughout Australia to take place in Sep and Oct.
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This IS good news , to my many old comrades at Ansett . I am relieved you have finally got what was your all along . An ABSOLUTLEY act of Corporate Ba***rdy . By that big fat fool Toomey. Good luck in you future , you all took a massive hit you did not deserve .
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Buster
Was there much warning on the inside? Oh yeah! A client of mine who is a senior "blue helmet" working in up country Pakistan at the time was advised 2 weeks prior to the AN collapse that any bookings held needed to be moved to other carriers.
The date was mentioned in the release.
Our Government knew, otherwise how did the word get to outpost in the Sub Continent?
The word was out in the travel industry, but without validation but what my client had was documented by an organisation who knew what was going on.
One must assume this came from reliable Government sources.
As I have said before, the whole thing was orchestrated by SQ who, with their 2 members on the NZ board conspired to collapse Ansett.
Logical really, as that way they could ride in on white horses and rescue the flailing Airline they knew NZ (Or TE - love that reference ) could in their current state not organise a **** fight in a sewerage farm and would buy said farm.
There were 2 ways to take over Ansett. The 1st being to buy it as was and take over all staff and assets but then have to remove and replace the top 3-4 levels of management keeping the viable but Abeles stripped beast alive at great cost. This would have cost a fortune as those canned would have cost multi millions to make redundant.
Logical thoughts were to put NZ via the board implants in charge as they had no hope to keep it running. If it all went pear shaped, no mud thrown at the Merlion at all - NZ cops the rubbish. Face saved - slink away and deny everything. Collapse - lose the staff at no cost - buy remains and start afresh leaving staff to fight previous alleged management for their entitlements.
Aquisition on AN was very important for SQ as they held the much coveted trans Pacific licences SQ still covet, plus an important domestic feeder network.
This may have all worked and probably would have.
Small problem was a group of potential Western Sydney residents flying aeroplanes into stationary objects threw the airline industry into a severe stall and SQ cut their losses and went away. I can't help but think Tiger was a weak attempt at a retry.
One also wonders if a certain trucking groups alleged attempt with the draw out until others ran out of funding for rebirthing Ansett was not a cynical attempt to make sure nobody else got hold of it and made it viable to leave a gap in the industry to be crept into later.
If we knew it all we would not sleep nights.
Be well and keep the culture good people.
EWL
Was there much warning on the inside? Oh yeah! A client of mine who is a senior "blue helmet" working in up country Pakistan at the time was advised 2 weeks prior to the AN collapse that any bookings held needed to be moved to other carriers.
The date was mentioned in the release.
Our Government knew, otherwise how did the word get to outpost in the Sub Continent?
The word was out in the travel industry, but without validation but what my client had was documented by an organisation who knew what was going on.
One must assume this came from reliable Government sources.
As I have said before, the whole thing was orchestrated by SQ who, with their 2 members on the NZ board conspired to collapse Ansett.
Logical really, as that way they could ride in on white horses and rescue the flailing Airline they knew NZ (Or TE - love that reference ) could in their current state not organise a **** fight in a sewerage farm and would buy said farm.
There were 2 ways to take over Ansett. The 1st being to buy it as was and take over all staff and assets but then have to remove and replace the top 3-4 levels of management keeping the viable but Abeles stripped beast alive at great cost. This would have cost a fortune as those canned would have cost multi millions to make redundant.
Logical thoughts were to put NZ via the board implants in charge as they had no hope to keep it running. If it all went pear shaped, no mud thrown at the Merlion at all - NZ cops the rubbish. Face saved - slink away and deny everything. Collapse - lose the staff at no cost - buy remains and start afresh leaving staff to fight previous alleged management for their entitlements.
Aquisition on AN was very important for SQ as they held the much coveted trans Pacific licences SQ still covet, plus an important domestic feeder network.
This may have all worked and probably would have.
Small problem was a group of potential Western Sydney residents flying aeroplanes into stationary objects threw the airline industry into a severe stall and SQ cut their losses and went away. I can't help but think Tiger was a weak attempt at a retry.
One also wonders if a certain trucking groups alleged attempt with the draw out until others ran out of funding for rebirthing Ansett was not a cynical attempt to make sure nobody else got hold of it and made it viable to leave a gap in the industry to be crept into later.
If we knew it all we would not sleep nights.
Be well and keep the culture good people.
EWL
