AFAP (Federation) takes legal action against Jetstar
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Update on legal
TO: All Jetstar Pilots
FROM: AFAP Jetstar Council
DATE: 15 June 2011
RE: Jetstar Group Pilot Contracts – Update No. 12
SUCCESSFUL LEGAL STRATEGY
In our recent Briefings we have been stressing the need for all Jetstar pilots to show a strong and united front against the Jetstar Group Pilot Contracts.
As part of this, your AFAP Jetstar pilot representatives have been working with the AIPA Jetstar pilot representatives to share information and counter this attack on our EBA.
We have also received some enquiries regarding why our legal proceedings have been commenced on the basis that Jetstar Group Pty Limited has or proposes to contravene the Air Pilots Award.
Effective and sophisticated industrial relations practice requires strategy and the need to be able to separate the wood from the trees.
Jetstar has given an undertaking in the Federal Court last Friday that it will not employ FOs and cadets under its contract until 1 September 2011, by which time the case will be in the final stages of preparation for trial.
That means no new employees outside the EBA.
The net effect of the AFAP action has been to take away the company's ploy to get around the EBA.
We have every expectation that the AFAP action will be successful, and if it is, the contracts will be dead in the water. The savings which the company was trying to achieve by reducing EBA conditions will be unavailable and therefore the incentive to avoid the EBA will be gone.
At the same time your pilot representatives are continuing discussions with the company regarding the employment of all Australian based Jetstar pilots under our EBA.
As you can see, our strategy is successfully addressing all the core issues.
If you have any questions regarding this matter and/or to have a copy of the signed and sealed Federal Court Order of Justice Marshall stopping Jetstar Group from offering the contracts emailed to you, please contact Simon Lutton at the AFAP on [email protected], ph (03) 9928 5737.
Regards
AFAP Jetstar Council
FROM: AFAP Jetstar Council
DATE: 15 June 2011
RE: Jetstar Group Pilot Contracts – Update No. 12
SUCCESSFUL LEGAL STRATEGY
In our recent Briefings we have been stressing the need for all Jetstar pilots to show a strong and united front against the Jetstar Group Pilot Contracts.
As part of this, your AFAP Jetstar pilot representatives have been working with the AIPA Jetstar pilot representatives to share information and counter this attack on our EBA.
We have also received some enquiries regarding why our legal proceedings have been commenced on the basis that Jetstar Group Pty Limited has or proposes to contravene the Air Pilots Award.
Effective and sophisticated industrial relations practice requires strategy and the need to be able to separate the wood from the trees.
Jetstar has given an undertaking in the Federal Court last Friday that it will not employ FOs and cadets under its contract until 1 September 2011, by which time the case will be in the final stages of preparation for trial.
That means no new employees outside the EBA.
The net effect of the AFAP action has been to take away the company's ploy to get around the EBA.
We have every expectation that the AFAP action will be successful, and if it is, the contracts will be dead in the water. The savings which the company was trying to achieve by reducing EBA conditions will be unavailable and therefore the incentive to avoid the EBA will be gone.
At the same time your pilot representatives are continuing discussions with the company regarding the employment of all Australian based Jetstar pilots under our EBA.
As you can see, our strategy is successfully addressing all the core issues.
If you have any questions regarding this matter and/or to have a copy of the signed and sealed Federal Court Order of Justice Marshall stopping Jetstar Group from offering the contracts emailed to you, please contact Simon Lutton at the AFAP on [email protected], ph (03) 9928 5737.
Regards
AFAP Jetstar Council
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As part of this, your AFAP Jetstar pilot representatives have been working with the AIPA Jetstar pilot representatives to share information and counter this attack on our EBA.
Australia-wide pilot unity just around the corner. A big thanks especially to Mr Buchanan. Not sure who he's working for right now, but it ain't Jetstar!
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They would decrease dramatically if they were told anything..! From what I know the cadets don't get told anything, just don't worry about it, it will work itself out... The first group are only months away from going to HK and still haven't even met "anyone" from Jetstar!
Keep up the good work AFAP and AIPA, we are with you all the way!
Keep up the good work AFAP and AIPA, we are with you all the way!
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The first group are only months away from going to HK and still haven't even met "anyone" from Jetstar!
If no jobs available -welcome to poverty street!!
The only time you see jetstar anywhere near Oxford or CTC is for PR related stuff and photoshoots.
Oxford makes its money selling expensive flight training 'cadetships', priced way above average that, when the chips are down, are no more authentic than the Louis Vitton' handbag that you buy from the little shop in Bali!!
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The Kelpie
Last edited by The Kelpie; 17th Jun 2011 at 22:22.
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DEC = Direct Entry Captain. See below from AIPA from a meeting on 9 June between JQ and AIPA over the employment of pilots outside the JQ EBA:
"At this meeting, AIPA sought a commitment from the Company that it would not employ these Cadets and First Officers outside of the EBA. Unfortunately, the Company did not provide any such commitment. Instead, the Company demanded “flexibilities” which included:
the ability to integrate overseas Captains into the Jetstar seniority list where vacancies are created by existing Captains leaving;
the ability to import pilots from overseas and roster them to work within Jetstar to address seasonal fluctuations in demands; and
the ability to impose bond requirements on Cadets which are more onerous than those set out in the EBA."
"At this meeting, AIPA sought a commitment from the Company that it would not employ these Cadets and First Officers outside of the EBA. Unfortunately, the Company did not provide any such commitment. Instead, the Company demanded “flexibilities” which included:
the ability to integrate overseas Captains into the Jetstar seniority list where vacancies are created by existing Captains leaving;
the ability to import pilots from overseas and roster them to work within Jetstar to address seasonal fluctuations in demands; and
the ability to impose bond requirements on Cadets which are more onerous than those set out in the EBA."
Have the same demands been made of the Federation?
Were the Federation in attendance at the same meeting?
I told you there was something sneaky on foot with regards to the rank of captain.
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The Kelpie
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Kelpie
Two points:
1. One step at a time. This is about the Federal court decision on the employment of FO's and cadets. It's unlikely that this ruling would include a determination on what could be a very different legal case re: the employment of foreign DEC's.
2.
Here's a thought. Rather than just posting this on Prune, how about give Lawrie a call and speak with him? You seem to have some inside information on this, so why not give the Feds a leg up? Or does it make you feel better to gob off here?
DIVOSH!
1. One step at a time. This is about the Federal court decision on the employment of FO's and cadets. It's unlikely that this ruling would include a determination on what could be a very different legal case re: the employment of foreign DEC's.
2.
I told you there was something sneaky on foot with regards to the rank of captain.
DIVOSH!
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Easily the most successful campaign of unity within the pilot groups of Australian carriers within recent years.
The cadet program needs to be exposed more publicly for the scam it is though.
The cadet program needs to be exposed more publicly for the scam it is though.
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Have the same demands been made of the Federation?
Were the Federation in attendance at the same meeting?
I told you there was something sneaky on foot with regards to the rank of captain.
Were the Federation in attendance at the same meeting?
I told you there was something sneaky on foot with regards to the rank of captain.
The AFAP have successfully stopped recruitment of all contract labour in Australia via a Federal Court order. They have a legal action proceeding with dates set down for Jetstar to file a defense and the AFAP to file a rebuttal. The case is strong – ring the AFAP or the pilot reps. They even have legal precedent backing up their case. The bond AND the training repayment schedule ARE NOT legally enforceable under a common law contract. This means that the cadets (or any pilot on a common law contract) can walk away from Jetstar tomorrow and not pay a cent back to Jetstar. This idea has legal precedence in the Federal Court. This completely undermines Jetstars plan to employ pilots on contract. Jetstar have no way of legally compelling the cadets to pay back the $80K (Advanced) or $150K (ab initio) or FO’s 40K.
Jetstar have been completely blindsided by the AFAP’s action which simply states that a common law contract must comply with the Air Pilots Award. This premise has legal precedent. Jetstar were probably expecting a sham contracting argument that has no precedent under the current legislation. If this (sham contracting) argument is lost would set a very dangerous precedent for the Qantas group. The AFAP can still run the sham contracting argument – but it is not without risk. Why would you blunder into a fight when your opponent is expecting and anticipating your every move? (again – wait for AIPA’s next move
) For the moment, I cannot fault the strategy of the AFAP. They have stopped contract recruitment, and are applying the screws via their continuing court action to bring the cadets under the EBA.
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OK I am certainly no expert by any stretch but, if Jetstar cannot legally force employees to pay back the various bonds and training costs, then surely no other operator can either? Almost every employer who pays for your initial endo places a bond on you for 2 years or so.
SN
SN
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I did not intend to rubbish the actions of AFAP, I have said previously that I support them wholeheartedly.
The point I intended to make was that the statements made to AIPA at their meeting seemed totally at odds with the 'undertaking' that JQ management have given to AFAP. Now I was under the impression that the two unions were working together on this.
To clarify, I have absolutely no problem with the legal strategy.
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The Kelpie
The point I intended to make was that the statements made to AIPA at their meeting seemed totally at odds with the 'undertaking' that JQ management have given to AFAP. Now I was under the impression that the two unions were working together on this.
To clarify, I have absolutely no problem with the legal strategy.
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The Kelpie
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SN
"OK I am certainly no expert by any stretch but, if Jetstar cannot legally force employees to pay back the various bonds and training costs, then surely no other operator can either? Almost every employer who pays for your initial endo places a bond on you for 2 years or so."
I could be wrong but I think what TTT is saying is that they cannot be bound on the separate contracts.. When employed on something other than the Air pilots Award or EBA..
NBBS
"OK I am certainly no expert by any stretch but, if Jetstar cannot legally force employees to pay back the various bonds and training costs, then surely no other operator can either? Almost every employer who pays for your initial endo places a bond on you for 2 years or so."
I could be wrong but I think what TTT is saying is that they cannot be bound on the separate contracts.. When employed on something other than the Air pilots Award or EBA..
NBBS
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Correct.
In the United States, the employment contracts are not enforcable now due to precedents involving judgments of attempting "Indentured Servitude".
Some operators have asked applicants to sign loan agreements with the company acting as guarantor, but the courts hve dismissed many of these in judgement, concluding that they are more of the same.
I can see a day coming very soon where ALL forms of bonding become illegal in the work place.
In the United States, the employment contracts are not enforcable now due to precedents involving judgments of attempting "Indentured Servitude".
Some operators have asked applicants to sign loan agreements with the company acting as guarantor, but the courts hve dismissed many of these in judgement, concluding that they are more of the same.
I can see a day coming very soon where ALL forms of bonding become illegal in the work place.
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Senators view
From "Rural Affairs and Transport References Committee
Pilot training and airline safety; and
Consideration of the Transport Safety
Investigation Amendment (Incident Reports)
Bill 2010" (Tabled today)
2.290
However, the committee was concerned by evidence provided over the disparate terms and conditions of cadet schemes. Some members of the committee were particularly concerned over the terms and conditions for the Jetstar cadet scheme.
Pilot training and airline safety; and
Consideration of the Transport Safety
Investigation Amendment (Incident Reports)
Bill 2010" (Tabled today)
2.290
However, the committee was concerned by evidence provided over the disparate terms and conditions of cadet schemes. Some members of the committee were particularly concerned over the terms and conditions for the Jetstar cadet scheme.
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They're about to pull the cadet training...
Underqualified individuals with no real world experience flying over an innocent population, doe not bode well for politicians or regulators.
Offering dual instruction in an Airbus or Boeing should never be considered a good idea.
Underqualified individuals with no real world experience flying over an innocent population, doe not bode well for politicians or regulators.
Offering dual instruction in an Airbus or Boeing should never be considered a good idea.
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They're about to pull the cadet training...
Fingers crossed...it would be a more than reasonable response to the madness that has crept in to this industry...
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KC,
Not sure on your sources but I know A few people from OAA and a couple of the Cadets. They seem to have put it behind them believing that it will take years to implement some of these recommendations.. Could be true since the inquiry is only the first hurdle and CASA will have to make a few changes internally first to get things moving..
If I'm not mistaken their is another large group of cadets starting at the end of July.. OAA what to keep pumping them out, to make money, so they definitely won't be slowing down unless they are forced to.. Do you really think BB and AJ care, there are so many other shady practices going on at these places! Unless it is written as Law (and they can still pay them less) the charade will continue..
NBBS
Not sure on your sources but I know A few people from OAA and a couple of the Cadets. They seem to have put it behind them believing that it will take years to implement some of these recommendations.. Could be true since the inquiry is only the first hurdle and CASA will have to make a few changes internally first to get things moving..
If I'm not mistaken their is another large group of cadets starting at the end of July.. OAA what to keep pumping them out, to make money, so they definitely won't be slowing down unless they are forced to.. Do you really think BB and AJ care, there are so many other shady practices going on at these places! Unless it is written as Law (and they can still pay them less) the charade will continue..
NBBS
Be carefull all you young wannabes "putting it all behind you". The Federal Government shut down the NT live beef export market overnight, once it became too hot politicaly!
The words of Senator X as relayed to him from professional pilots "better a Senate enquirey now, than a Royal Commission later" must be ringing in Albeniese's ears.
If you continue to listen to the Buchanans and the Joyces of the world, you will be heading not only for financial ruin, but zero career options as well. Wake up and smell the coffee before it's too late.
The words of Senator X as relayed to him from professional pilots "better a Senate enquirey now, than a Royal Commission later" must be ringing in Albeniese's ears.
If you continue to listen to the Buchanans and the Joyces of the world, you will be heading not only for financial ruin, but zero career options as well. Wake up and smell the coffee before it's too late.