AFAP (Federation) takes legal action against Jetstar
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I agree with the angryrat!
There is some other major problem in the background that is concerning management, which is much more sinister than a couple of newbie trainee pilots not joining the ranks this month.....
I'm thinking that they know that the fallout from QF longhaul negotiation is going to result in PIA, and they need to keep the other parts of the business flying during the chaos and disruption.
There is some other major problem in the background that is concerning management, which is much more sinister than a couple of newbie trainee pilots not joining the ranks this month.....
I'm thinking that they know that the fallout from QF longhaul negotiation is going to result in PIA, and they need to keep the other parts of the business flying during the chaos and disruption.
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Will be interesting to find out who commissioned the team of consultants to go into Qantas.
Was it AJ and the Board or was it the Major Shareholders?
It seems there is a loss of faith in the direction being encouraged by Boston Consultants.
We will see.
More to Follow
The Kelpie
Was it AJ and the Board or was it the Major Shareholders?
It seems there is a loss of faith in the direction being encouraged by Boston Consultants.
We will see.
More to Follow
The Kelpie
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Management hold the purse strings
I will word my input cautiously as apparently I have offended some allegedly ‘pea hearted’ people in other threads, and I have been banned from inputting my logical structured rationale into some of those other threads.
The use of Consultants is a must in today’s financially unstable environment. Consultants come into the organization with a clear, unbiased and open viewpoint. Admittedly, they will make a raft of recommendations and suggest a variety of cost cutting measures but they do so transparently, over much soul searching and with brute inner strength. Most cost cutting does occur within the labor ranks positioned below the executive management tier, however that is where a lot of money is wasted on poorly educated underperforming overstaffed people. Although Consultants appear to be remunerated handsomely, the reality is that there are many associated running costs with operating a Consultancy, including laundry bills, faxing, affixing stamps to letters and so forth, so in reality a Consultant would earn less than the average A320 cadet. But that does not mean that one should diminish the vital role that Consultants play in aviation. The enthusiasm the Consultant brings into the workplace inspires management to reach levels one could only dream about. In turn Management become even more enthused, creative and inspired, which spells out SUCCESS for the shareholder, our most valued associate.
So in reality we should raise a toast the Consultant. We should appreciate and consider the sometimes difficult and rocky path they must traverse through an organization as they try to strive to deliver savings measure that will greatly satisfy the Shareholder. The future of Consultancies is strong, the savings they bring are superlative, and the vision they possess is awe inspiring. They truly are an intertwining component of the organizational existence, to them I say ‘well done’.
The use of Consultants is a must in today’s financially unstable environment. Consultants come into the organization with a clear, unbiased and open viewpoint. Admittedly, they will make a raft of recommendations and suggest a variety of cost cutting measures but they do so transparently, over much soul searching and with brute inner strength. Most cost cutting does occur within the labor ranks positioned below the executive management tier, however that is where a lot of money is wasted on poorly educated underperforming overstaffed people. Although Consultants appear to be remunerated handsomely, the reality is that there are many associated running costs with operating a Consultancy, including laundry bills, faxing, affixing stamps to letters and so forth, so in reality a Consultant would earn less than the average A320 cadet. But that does not mean that one should diminish the vital role that Consultants play in aviation. The enthusiasm the Consultant brings into the workplace inspires management to reach levels one could only dream about. In turn Management become even more enthused, creative and inspired, which spells out SUCCESS for the shareholder, our most valued associate.
So in reality we should raise a toast the Consultant. We should appreciate and consider the sometimes difficult and rocky path they must traverse through an organization as they try to strive to deliver savings measure that will greatly satisfy the Shareholder. The future of Consultancies is strong, the savings they bring are superlative, and the vision they possess is awe inspiring. They truly are an intertwining component of the organizational existence, to them I say ‘well done’.
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Management In Charge, are you by any chance related to Captain Toss Parker who posted regularly in the Hong Kong forum until his recent retirement from Cathay C & T? You seem to embody the spirit of the great Captain.
Cheers
Cheers
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a lot of money is wasted on poorly educated underperforming overstaffed people
the reality is that there are many associated running costs with operating a Consultancy, including laundry bills, faxing, affixing stamps to letters and so forth
I have been banned from inputting my logical structured rationale into some of those other threads
Wow, can't believe I just bit at that.
From now on I vote the mods change his user name to Makita. A massive power tool.
It would seem that not only does bb have trouble in dealing with the truth, but it would also seem that he may be (seriously) delusional.
Does he honestly expect anyone, my 5 year old son included, to believe that a decision has been made to delay growth plans at jq, because the incremental cost of employing EBA pilots over the proposed contract pilots, now make those growth plans unviable? Wasn't it last week that he told the world that the airline doesn't actually make money as an airline as such, but makes it's profits by selling muffins?
Like Kevin 07 in politics, BB could go well down in history as the biggest imposter ever to run an airline.
Have they not been telling all who will listen that the pay and hours under the proposed contract are basically the same as the eba?
He is clearly desperate to find an excuse, any excuse, to try and mitigate his own culpability in this, and the numerous preceeding shambolic statergy executions.
I suspect there is a lot more to September than seems obvious to us now.
The military analogy has already been used, but I think that we need to watch our flanks very closly, the only hope that these clowns now have , if rumours of board unrest, consultants etc are true - is an ambush.
Their form already shows that the truth and honour mean nothing. They have already tried to hamper communication amoungt the troops (no more group emails please!) - a tactic straight from "how to wage a war 101".
The "A" in EBA stands for "agreement" - period
Does he honestly expect anyone, my 5 year old son included, to believe that a decision has been made to delay growth plans at jq, because the incremental cost of employing EBA pilots over the proposed contract pilots, now make those growth plans unviable? Wasn't it last week that he told the world that the airline doesn't actually make money as an airline as such, but makes it's profits by selling muffins?
Like Kevin 07 in politics, BB could go well down in history as the biggest imposter ever to run an airline.
Have they not been telling all who will listen that the pay and hours under the proposed contract are basically the same as the eba?
He is clearly desperate to find an excuse, any excuse, to try and mitigate his own culpability in this, and the numerous preceeding shambolic statergy executions.
I suspect there is a lot more to September than seems obvious to us now.
The military analogy has already been used, but I think that we need to watch our flanks very closly, the only hope that these clowns now have , if rumours of board unrest, consultants etc are true - is an ambush.
Their form already shows that the truth and honour mean nothing. They have already tried to hamper communication amoungt the troops (no more group emails please!) - a tactic straight from "how to wage a war 101".
The "A" in EBA stands for "agreement" - period
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Does anyone see the irony of consultants advising on consultants?
Surely the Board must be asked:
1. How much of shareholders money has been pissed away on these projects that have added NO value?
2. Who is actually doing anything in the Exec ranks?
If anyone knows the answers put it out there for all to see and lets counter the argument it is wages that is the problem.
This is going to be like Labour Govts when change happens because all manner of crap is going to be exposed by the incoming. Lets hope they dont have too many shredders.
Surely the Board must be asked:
1. How much of shareholders money has been pissed away on these projects that have added NO value?
2. Who is actually doing anything in the Exec ranks?
If anyone knows the answers put it out there for all to see and lets counter the argument it is wages that is the problem.
This is going to be like Labour Govts when change happens because all manner of crap is going to be exposed by the incoming. Lets hope they dont have too many shredders.
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Could the freeze be partly to nullify the argument during the coming mainline PIA that they are looking at making Qantas pilots redundant while simultaneously recruiting at Jetstar.
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Re Management In Charge:
Come on guys. I know everyone is getting wound up during these difficult times, but can you not recognise satire when you see it? Either that, or he's a Poe*. But I strongly suspect genuine satire.
*Poe's Law (Nathan Poe, 2005): "Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing."
The axiom is that it is impossible to distinguish the parody of extremist beliefs from genuine proponents of them, because it is all equally nutty.
Come on guys. I know everyone is getting wound up during these difficult times, but can you not recognise satire when you see it? Either that, or he's a Poe*. But I strongly suspect genuine satire.
*Poe's Law (Nathan Poe, 2005): "Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing."
The axiom is that it is impossible to distinguish the parody of extremist beliefs from genuine proponents of them, because it is all equally nutty.
Thread Starter
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Updates
TO: All Jetstar Pilots
FROM: AFAP Jetstar Pilot Council
DATE: 20 May 2011
RE: Jetstar Group Pilot Contracts – AFAP Meeting with Jetstar
Last night David Hall, Mark Rindfleish and Ian Oldmeadow met with Terry O’Connell and Simon Lutton from the AFAP to discuss our Federal Court application against Jetstar Group Pty Limited – due for Directions Hearing on 10 June 2011.
At the meeting we confirmed our position as:
“Jetstar should only employ Australian based pilots under the Jetstar Agreement and any variations it wishes to discuss regarding flexibilities and part-time employment arrangements should be genuinely discussed with the JPC representatives.”
Jetstar management advised that they would consider our request.
We remain hopeful that a sensible solution can be achieved.
We will continue to keep you advised of developments.
PLEASE DISTRIBUTE THIS NEWSLETTER TO ALL YOUR COLLEAGUES
If you have any questions regarding this matter please contact Simon Lutton at the AFAP on [email protected], ph (03) 9928 5737.
Regards
AFAP Jetstar Council
===========================================
TO: All Jetstar Pilots
FROM: AFAP Jetstar Pilot Council
DATE: 23 May 2011
RE: Jetstar Group Pilot Contracts – Further Meeting with Jetstar
Today the company met with the AFAP to discuss our Federal Court application against Jetstar Group Pty Limited – due for Directions Hearing on 10 June 2011.
Since our first meeting last Thursday, the company advised that it has stopped the employment of First Officers under the Jetstar Group Contracts while we work through the issues. This is a positive step.
We are still in negotiations in relation to the employment of cadets (a significant part of our application).
In light of these developments Jetstar management has asked that the application be discontinued.
The AFAP Jetstar Council has decided to continue the application at this time. We have however suggested that meetings between the company and JPC representatives be scheduled as a matter of priority.
We will continue to keep you advised of developments.
If you have any questions regarding this matter please contact Simon Lutton at the AFAP on [email protected], ph (03) 9928 5737.
Regards
AFAP Jetstar Council
==============================================
TO: All Jetstar Pilots
FROM: Ben Bollen, AFAP Jetstar Council Vice-Chair
DATE: 26 May 2011
RE: Jetstar Group Pilot Contracts – JPC Meeting with Jetstar
Yesterday, three Jetstar pilot representatives (myself, Darren Davis and Paul Hogan) met with David Hall, Mark Dal Pra and Mark Rindfleish in Melbourne. Bruce Buchanan also attended part of the meeting via teleconference from overseas.
The purpose of the meeting was to understand what ‘flexibilities’ the company required to ensure that all Jetstar pilots based in Australia are employed under our EBA. After some constructive discussion, the company undertook to review its position and provide the final details of what it is seeking within the next week. We will consider its position and respond accordingly.
A significant amount of our discussions were focussed on the cadets who continue to be engaged under the Jetstar Group contracts. We remain hopeful of finding a sensible/workable solution to ensure that they will be employed under our current EBA.
We have received a great deal of feedback from pilots following the Company’s proposition that the AFAP discontinue the court case over the Jetstar Group pilot contracts while discussions take place.
Ultimately it is in the company’s hands whether we continue with the court case. We will not be backing down while the company continues or proposes to continue to employ any Australian based Jetstar pilot under these contracts.
What is required now is for all Jetstar pilots to show their support for the AFAP legal action, and in that way show the company that we are united and determined to see this through. We ask you to show your unity and support by joining with us in this fight. You can do this by joining and/or encouraging your colleagues to join the AFAP. Application forms are available on the website www.afap.org.au via email to [email protected] or by calling the office on (03) 9928 5737.
We will continue to keep you advised of developments.
If you have any questions regarding this matter please contact Simon Lutton at the AFAP on [email protected], ph (03) 9928 5737.
Regards
Ben Bollen
AFAP Jetstar Council Vice-Chair
FROM: AFAP Jetstar Pilot Council
DATE: 20 May 2011
RE: Jetstar Group Pilot Contracts – AFAP Meeting with Jetstar
Last night David Hall, Mark Rindfleish and Ian Oldmeadow met with Terry O’Connell and Simon Lutton from the AFAP to discuss our Federal Court application against Jetstar Group Pty Limited – due for Directions Hearing on 10 June 2011.
At the meeting we confirmed our position as:
“Jetstar should only employ Australian based pilots under the Jetstar Agreement and any variations it wishes to discuss regarding flexibilities and part-time employment arrangements should be genuinely discussed with the JPC representatives.”
Jetstar management advised that they would consider our request.
We remain hopeful that a sensible solution can be achieved.
We will continue to keep you advised of developments.
PLEASE DISTRIBUTE THIS NEWSLETTER TO ALL YOUR COLLEAGUES
If you have any questions regarding this matter please contact Simon Lutton at the AFAP on [email protected], ph (03) 9928 5737.
Regards
AFAP Jetstar Council
===========================================
TO: All Jetstar Pilots
FROM: AFAP Jetstar Pilot Council
DATE: 23 May 2011
RE: Jetstar Group Pilot Contracts – Further Meeting with Jetstar
Today the company met with the AFAP to discuss our Federal Court application against Jetstar Group Pty Limited – due for Directions Hearing on 10 June 2011.
Since our first meeting last Thursday, the company advised that it has stopped the employment of First Officers under the Jetstar Group Contracts while we work through the issues. This is a positive step.
We are still in negotiations in relation to the employment of cadets (a significant part of our application).
In light of these developments Jetstar management has asked that the application be discontinued.
The AFAP Jetstar Council has decided to continue the application at this time. We have however suggested that meetings between the company and JPC representatives be scheduled as a matter of priority.
We will continue to keep you advised of developments.
If you have any questions regarding this matter please contact Simon Lutton at the AFAP on [email protected], ph (03) 9928 5737.
Regards
AFAP Jetstar Council
==============================================
TO: All Jetstar Pilots
FROM: Ben Bollen, AFAP Jetstar Council Vice-Chair
DATE: 26 May 2011
RE: Jetstar Group Pilot Contracts – JPC Meeting with Jetstar
Yesterday, three Jetstar pilot representatives (myself, Darren Davis and Paul Hogan) met with David Hall, Mark Dal Pra and Mark Rindfleish in Melbourne. Bruce Buchanan also attended part of the meeting via teleconference from overseas.
The purpose of the meeting was to understand what ‘flexibilities’ the company required to ensure that all Jetstar pilots based in Australia are employed under our EBA. After some constructive discussion, the company undertook to review its position and provide the final details of what it is seeking within the next week. We will consider its position and respond accordingly.
A significant amount of our discussions were focussed on the cadets who continue to be engaged under the Jetstar Group contracts. We remain hopeful of finding a sensible/workable solution to ensure that they will be employed under our current EBA.
We have received a great deal of feedback from pilots following the Company’s proposition that the AFAP discontinue the court case over the Jetstar Group pilot contracts while discussions take place.
Ultimately it is in the company’s hands whether we continue with the court case. We will not be backing down while the company continues or proposes to continue to employ any Australian based Jetstar pilot under these contracts.
What is required now is for all Jetstar pilots to show their support for the AFAP legal action, and in that way show the company that we are united and determined to see this through. We ask you to show your unity and support by joining with us in this fight. You can do this by joining and/or encouraging your colleagues to join the AFAP. Application forms are available on the website www.afap.org.au via email to [email protected] or by calling the office on (03) 9928 5737.
We will continue to keep you advised of developments.
If you have any questions regarding this matter please contact Simon Lutton at the AFAP on [email protected], ph (03) 9928 5737.
Regards
Ben Bollen
AFAP Jetstar Council Vice-Chair