Qantas Pilots, You Are Losing The Battle.
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There is a HUGE amount of support for the pilots but you guys are just failing to get your message out there as many have made clear on this site.
Why is it that you don't want to do this?If your leadership don't get it, then you need to make sure they do understand how important this is.If you don't, the Rat continues to spin and lie.
A good example is the wage issue, not one person has addressed the blatant lies spun. You want to leave the public in no doubt that it is lies. How hard is that?
Get the best media advisor you can get and spread the word or you will lose the battle while the Rat keeps getting free kicks.
Why is it that you don't want to do this?If your leadership don't get it, then you need to make sure they do understand how important this is.If you don't, the Rat continues to spin and lie.
A good example is the wage issue, not one person has addressed the blatant lies spun. You want to leave the public in no doubt that it is lies. How hard is that?
Get the best media advisor you can get and spread the word or you will lose the battle while the Rat keeps getting free kicks.
Joyce loves to keep pushing the line about Qantas International failing while on numerous occasions stating that Qantas Domestic is the most profitable domestic airline in the country. So, why not spend a little time pointing out that a large portion of that domestic flying is done by pilots covered by the long haul EBA.
Now these are very rough numbers but I estimate 90% of 767 flying is domestic and 15-20% of A330 flying is domestic. Obviously these are larger aircraft than the 737 so despite their smaller fleet size I estimate long haul pilots are flying 40-45% of domestic ASK's. And given QF domestic is so profitable, why is Joyce being so tight-fisted? It seems you can make a profit even with dirty money hungry long haul pilots.
Perhaps this should be presented to the media by AIPA. (with more accurate calculations obviously)
Now these are very rough numbers but I estimate 90% of 767 flying is domestic and 15-20% of A330 flying is domestic. Obviously these are larger aircraft than the 737 so despite their smaller fleet size I estimate long haul pilots are flying 40-45% of domestic ASK's. And given QF domestic is so profitable, why is Joyce being so tight-fisted? It seems you can make a profit even with dirty money hungry long haul pilots.
Perhaps this should be presented to the media by AIPA. (with more accurate calculations obviously)
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after reading the comments section in relation to the stories today across 3 papers, well, your screwed.... 90% of the opinion is aganst you.. gready, arrogent, paid too much, killing the airline... you get the idea...
after reading the comments section in relation to the stories today across 3 papers, well, your screwed.... 90% of the opinion is aganst you.. gready, arrogent, paid too much, killing the airline... you get the idea...
Just by reading the first two paragraphs the game is over. AIPA need to pull their finger out and tell the public this is NOT about pay and free perks
Nunc est bibendum
Some of us are! 
Although I must say that occasionally it appears that if you come to a discussion too late your comments just aren't added.
Although I must say that occasionally it appears that if you come to a discussion too late your comments just aren't added.
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Thats right Keg you have to get in early.
Dominate the conversation. Make different names (not something I do on pprune of course!).
The article is identical for each paper but the comments section is totally different. The quickest way to do it is to copy and paste.
Dominate the conversation. Make different names (not something I do on pprune of course!).
The article is identical for each paper but the comments section is totally different. The quickest way to do it is to copy and paste.
Facebook and other social media
Guys,
It seems that you are having trouble getting the facts out to the public. The media is too busy mis-reporting or looking out for their advertising budget. The details that could win this fight are making their way onto PPRune, unfortunately Joe Public has never heard of this forum.
Perhaps someone tech savvy amongst you could set up a "Face book" group in support of Australian employees. Play the same game that AJ is playing, but put the truth out there. All the engineering issues, bad decisions and possible outcomes that offshoring can have should be posted. Counter the lies with calm explanations.
If everyone on here joins the group, then gets their friends and family to join, it would grow quickly. These days, the media and politicians pay more attention to social media then probably should be deserved, but this is the world we live in.
Eventually, the truth will reach the shareholders and maybe changes will occur.
The risk with this approach is it will not be annonymous. I don't know how that fits in with legal obligations/PIA. Hopefully someone could comment.
Finally, I am not a Qantas employee, but I am a professional pilot who has aspirations of possibly working there once I reach the end of my current career. This is just an idea I came up with this morning, hopefully it can be of use.
You have my full support.
It seems that you are having trouble getting the facts out to the public. The media is too busy mis-reporting or looking out for their advertising budget. The details that could win this fight are making their way onto PPRune, unfortunately Joe Public has never heard of this forum.
Perhaps someone tech savvy amongst you could set up a "Face book" group in support of Australian employees. Play the same game that AJ is playing, but put the truth out there. All the engineering issues, bad decisions and possible outcomes that offshoring can have should be posted. Counter the lies with calm explanations.
If everyone on here joins the group, then gets their friends and family to join, it would grow quickly. These days, the media and politicians pay more attention to social media then probably should be deserved, but this is the world we live in.
Eventually, the truth will reach the shareholders and maybe changes will occur.
The risk with this approach is it will not be annonymous. I don't know how that fits in with legal obligations/PIA. Hopefully someone could comment.
Finally, I am not a Qantas employee, but I am a professional pilot who has aspirations of possibly working there once I reach the end of my current career. This is just an idea I came up with this morning, hopefully it can be of use.
You have my full support.
Last edited by aussiepilot; 27th May 2011 at 01:31. Reason: PPRune won't let me say "face book"
I'm also finding that you have to be flamin quick to comment otherwise you miss out on being published. You can hardly blame the people that comment negatively for writing what they do, heck I would if I wasn't in the industry and had little idea of the goings on. Might have to spend the days off hitting refresh just waiting for a new article so as to be the first to comment
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Many of the persons who commented have their fixed idea of reality and would only be irritated at having the facts getting in the way. They are there for the bloodsport and only too eagerly want to believe the "voice of authority", those respectable people trying to run a business.
I also saw a lot of respondents just tearing the article to pieces based on nothing more than it was clearly erroneous and mischievous.
There is a long way to go, and Andrew Denton's "Enough Rope" springs to mind.
N
I also saw a lot of respondents just tearing the article to pieces based on nothing more than it was clearly erroneous and mischievous.
There is a long way to go, and Andrew Denton's "Enough Rope" springs to mind.
N
Nunc est bibendum
Interesting results
ninemsn.com.au has a poll running that says 'Are Qantas pilots paid too much'. The results so far are in favour of 'no'.
Vote early, vote often! (Please vote 'no'). I think we're paid 'fairly' for what we do.
Vote early, vote often! (Please vote 'no'). I think we're paid 'fairly' for what we do.
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it appears there is some media manipulation occuring again on the polls. Checked in and saw the NO vote in excess of 11,000, checked 5 mins later and it appeared the NO vote dropped back to 10,900 something
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Where is the pr consultancy???
AIPA - For the life of me I cannot understand why you haven't employed the (expensive) services of a top-notch PR firm.
If you have, then its time to fire them and use a different company.
Pilots fly planes. PR gurus sell (spin) messages.
For F@$ks sake, wake up to the peril approaching and SPEND SOME $$$$$ on a first rate PR consultancy who will be ON MESSAGE, ALL THE TIME, far better than any pilot!!!
PG
If you have, then its time to fire them and use a different company.
Pilots fly planes. PR gurus sell (spin) messages.
For F@$ks sake, wake up to the peril approaching and SPEND SOME $$$$$ on a first rate PR consultancy who will be ON MESSAGE, ALL THE TIME, far better than any pilot!!!
PG
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Some posters are putting a lot of weight on public perception. The bottom line is that the owners of all the mainstream media in Australia are on the side of Joyce and the Free Traders who control the government. No matter how many PR people you hire, the front page result will be the same. You will need to develop the stomach for a fight where you will not get support from the average punter - the issues are too complicated.
It comes down to solidarity - amongst yourselves and with other occupations that are being threatened by offshoring. If 90% of LH pilots vote and 90% of them vote for PIA - then you are in business, regardless of the MSM spin.
It comes down to solidarity - amongst yourselves and with other occupations that are being threatened by offshoring. If 90% of LH pilots vote and 90% of them vote for PIA - then you are in business, regardless of the MSM spin.
Thread Starter
FFS GET EXPERT PROFESSIONAL PR HELP!
Sorry for the shouting, but Joyces PR minions will have the next three stories already sitting on ice.
They will also have the script for the public interest stories ready to cut and paste for when you do strike, you know the ones with:
"My baby grand daughter is dying of Cancer in Brisbane and I'm stuck here in Hobart, thanks to those greedy pilots, it just isn't right."
Qantas goes to the Courts and has the strike declared illegal on essential public service grounds. The Gillard Government won't intervene because it could risk Abbott weighing in and causing the Government to fall if the independents side with Abbott.
You can do all you want with social media and it will help. but only if you have a professionally prepared list of talking points and stay on message.
I suppose it is just possible that the union might be playing a deep PR game, but I suspect its more likely that you think that because you are "professionals" you shouldn't stoop to the level of Joyces gutter tactics. Companies often request unions to be "gentlemanly" and "professional" in negotiations, don't fall for it. If that is the case, then I'm afraid you are fatally mistaken.
Sorry for the shouting, but Joyces PR minions will have the next three stories already sitting on ice.
They will also have the script for the public interest stories ready to cut and paste for when you do strike, you know the ones with:
"My baby grand daughter is dying of Cancer in Brisbane and I'm stuck here in Hobart, thanks to those greedy pilots, it just isn't right."
Qantas goes to the Courts and has the strike declared illegal on essential public service grounds. The Gillard Government won't intervene because it could risk Abbott weighing in and causing the Government to fall if the independents side with Abbott.
You can do all you want with social media and it will help. but only if you have a professionally prepared list of talking points and stay on message.
I suppose it is just possible that the union might be playing a deep PR game, but I suspect its more likely that you think that because you are "professionals" you shouldn't stoop to the level of Joyces gutter tactics. Companies often request unions to be "gentlemanly" and "professional" in negotiations, don't fall for it. If that is the case, then I'm afraid you are fatally mistaken.
Last edited by Sunfish; 27th May 2011 at 02:50.
Take out a full page advert in the daily papers explaining all of the issues.
And put a rocket under your President, he's not pushing the real issues enough.
Qantas are walking all over you guys.
And put a rocket under your President, he's not pushing the real issues enough.
Qantas are walking all over you guys.