New JQ Contract
Today, I didn’t give a 110% at work. I estimate this would have cost about 300kgs of fuel.
I am an army of one.
I am an army of one.
Now if everyone did this on every flight imagine the costs?! Using above example, roughly $700 x number of flights per day (not known exactly by me), the costs must be near an extra $100,000 a day. Or $36,000,000 a year. Compare that to the amount you are saving by pissing everyone off with these contracts.
Easier to treat your staff well really.
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The fact that some Jetstar guys are in negotiation with management to form their own deal is appalling, and I bet you could pick which guys would be doing that, would they be in the top 100 on the JQ seniority list?...they have done it before and they'll do it again..low lifes, fair dinkum...
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The biggest problem with these blow in Mac Donalds managers is that they don't fully understand the Flight Crew's job. They think that it's a case of flying from point A to point B. Unlike other industries it's the individual effort between point A and point B that makes ALL the difference.
People think it's a case of turning the autopilot on and sitting back and monitoring with the use of a set of procedures written in a company manual. This works very well in the fast food industry and not so well in the aviation industry.
Believe it or not every minute, every litre of fuel translates into millions and millions of dollars. Blindsighted by the KPI BonUs wheel they fail to realize engaged pilots create money that doesn't exist.
Senator X needs to have a close look at this system and the background and qualifications of every person that holds a 'management' position in an airline. Afterall this ain't Mac Donalds.
People think it's a case of turning the autopilot on and sitting back and monitoring with the use of a set of procedures written in a company manual. This works very well in the fast food industry and not so well in the aviation industry.
Believe it or not every minute, every litre of fuel translates into millions and millions of dollars. Blindsighted by the KPI BonUs wheel they fail to realize engaged pilots create money that doesn't exist.
Senator X needs to have a close look at this system and the background and qualifications of every person that holds a 'management' position in an airline. Afterall this ain't Mac Donalds.
Very sad to see and read. Talk of pilot bans etc mean nothing.management don't care if a pilot is on a ban list long as they are signing up (which they will) and planes are taking off. They are eating you from the inside out.
If every jetstar pilot however said next friday etc we are all not working no matter what, then it would cease straight away. No planes taking off, then it would be taken very very seriously. the ball is firmly up to you guys. Good luck.
If every jetstar pilot however said next friday etc we are all not working no matter what, then it would cease straight away. No planes taking off, then it would be taken very very seriously. the ball is firmly up to you guys. Good luck.
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Today, I didn’t give a 110% at work. I estimate this would have cost about 300kgs of fuel.
I am an army of one.
I am an army of one.
What is needed now is a top flight spin doctor who can fight fire with fire. The sort of person the politicians would use. They need to be in the press countering everything, no matter how small, with the facts. Public humiliation & a ground swell of public support for the pilots, engineers & even flight attendants is the only way to stop what is happening now.
You might be surprised just how powerful public opinion is.
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The emails I have seen cover a wide range of operational, safety, personal, marketing, scheduling, strategy and commercial issues and should be printed off and made mandatory reading by airline executives and regulatory authority managers.
I guess they all have a common theme: "Innovation and enthusiasm are wonderful but don't try and re-learn every lesson already known to your employees and remember that almost all aviation's lessons were paid for in blood, bankruptcy or both"
Perhaps many managers whose learning was done via business school computer screens and whiteboards have never had that exquisite feeling of anguish when you tighten and screw just one quarter turn too much and strip the thread, often skinning a knuckle at the same time! Even worse, when ill-advised over tightening breaks off an exhaust manifold stud and you have to drill it out. Squeezing until something gives is not a practice that has any place in peacetime aviation. That certainly doesn't mean giving up on continuous improvement: it does mean don't waste opportunities for learning from the people involved and for executives and subordinates alike: "So far so good" in both business and safety, is the credo of fools.
I can offer little contribution to the situation except good wishes, and as a thinking piece, the following excerpt from a letter written by Admiral Nimitz to the entire Pacific Fleet after the swashbuckling Admiral Halsey ill-advisedly took the Third Fleet through a typhoon off Luzon in 1944, sinking 3 destroyers, damaging 9 other warships and costing 790 lives and 100 aircraft. Sorry its a bit of a read but I suggest it's worth it for executives and sub-ordinates reflecting on just exactly how tightly the business, safety and industrial screws should be turned:
"The safety of a ship against perils from storm, as well as from those of navigation and maneuvering, is always the primary responsibility of her commanding officer; but this responsibility is also shared by his immediate superiors in operational command since by the very fact of such command the individual commanding officer is not free to do at any time what his own judgment might indicate. Obviously no rational captain will permit his ship to be lost fruitlessly through blind obedience to plan or order, since by no chance could that be the intention of his superior. But the degree of a ship's danger is progressive and at the same time indefinite. It is one thing for a commanding officer, acting independently in time of peace, to pick a course and speed which may save him a beating from the weather, and quite another for him, in time of war, to disregard his mission and his orders and leave his station and duty.
It is here that the responsibility rests on unit, group, and force commanders, and that their judgment and authority must be exercised. They are of course the ones best qualified to weigh the situation and the relative urgency of safety measures versus carrying on with the job in hand. They frequently guard circuits and possess weather codes not available to all ships; and it goes without saying that any storm warnings or important weather information which they are not sure everybody have received should be re-transmitted as far as practicable. More than this, they must be conscious of the relative inexperience in seamanship, and particularly hurricane seamanship, of many of their commanding officers, despite their superb fighting qualities. One division commander reports that his captains averaged eight years or less out of the Naval Academy, and this is probably typical.
It is most definitely part of the senior officer's responsibility to think in terms of the smallest ship and most inexperienced commanding officer under him. He cannot take them for granted, give them tasks and stations, and assume either that they will be able to keep up and come through any weather that his own big ship can; or that they will be wise enough to gauge the exact moment when their tasks must be abandoned in order for them to keep afloat. The order for ships to be handled and navigated wholly for their own preservation should be originated early enough by the seniors, and not be necessarily withheld until the juniors request it. The very gallantry and determination of our young commanding officers need to be taken into account here as a danger factor, since their urge to keep on, to keep up, to keep station, and to carry out their mission in the face of any difficulty, may deter them from doing what is actually wisest and most profitable in the long run.
Yet if the Officer in Tactical Command is to be held responsible for his smaller vessels, he must be kept aware of their conditions, and the onus of this rests on the commanding officers themselves. Each of them must not only do whatever he is free and able to do for his ship's safety, but must also keep his superiors in the chain of command fully informed as to his situation. If there is anything in his ship's particular condition or in the way she is taking the weather that worries him, he should not hesitate to pass the information to his seniors. To let this be regarded as a sign of faint- heartedness is to invite disaster, and seniors should indoctrinate their commanding officers accordingly. Going still further, it has been shown that at sea the severity of the weather may develop to a point where, regardless of combat commitments of the high command, the situation will require independent action by a junior without reference to his senior. This becomes mandatory if grave doubts arise in the mind of the junior as to the safety of his vessel, the lives of its crew, and the loss of valuable government property and equipment.
In conclusion, both seniors and juniors alike must realize that in bad weather, as in most other situations, safety and fatal hazard are not separated by any sharp boundary line, but shade gradually from one into the other. There is no little red light which is going to flash on and inform commanding officers or higher commanders that from then on there is extreme danger from the weather, and that measures for ships' safety must now take precedence over further efforts to keep up with the formation or to execute the assigned task. This time will always be a matter of personal judgment. Naturally no commander is going to cut thin the margin between staying afloat and foundering, but he may nevertheless unwittingly pass the danger point even though no ship is yet in extremis. Ships that keep on going as long as the severity of wind and sea has not yet come close to capsizing them or breaking them in two, may nevertheless become helpless to avoid these catastrophes later if things get worse. By then they may be unable to steer any heading but in the trough of the sea, or may have their steering control, lighting, communications, and main propulsion disabled, or may be helpless to secure things on deck or to jettison topside weights. The time for taking all measures for a ship's safety is while still able to do so. Nothing is more dangerous than for a seaman to be grudging in taking precautions lest they turn out to have been unnecessary. Safety at sea for a thousand years has depended on exactly the opposite philosophy"
Admiral Chester Nimitz
I guess they all have a common theme: "Innovation and enthusiasm are wonderful but don't try and re-learn every lesson already known to your employees and remember that almost all aviation's lessons were paid for in blood, bankruptcy or both"
Perhaps many managers whose learning was done via business school computer screens and whiteboards have never had that exquisite feeling of anguish when you tighten and screw just one quarter turn too much and strip the thread, often skinning a knuckle at the same time! Even worse, when ill-advised over tightening breaks off an exhaust manifold stud and you have to drill it out. Squeezing until something gives is not a practice that has any place in peacetime aviation. That certainly doesn't mean giving up on continuous improvement: it does mean don't waste opportunities for learning from the people involved and for executives and subordinates alike: "So far so good" in both business and safety, is the credo of fools.
I can offer little contribution to the situation except good wishes, and as a thinking piece, the following excerpt from a letter written by Admiral Nimitz to the entire Pacific Fleet after the swashbuckling Admiral Halsey ill-advisedly took the Third Fleet through a typhoon off Luzon in 1944, sinking 3 destroyers, damaging 9 other warships and costing 790 lives and 100 aircraft. Sorry its a bit of a read but I suggest it's worth it for executives and sub-ordinates reflecting on just exactly how tightly the business, safety and industrial screws should be turned:
"The safety of a ship against perils from storm, as well as from those of navigation and maneuvering, is always the primary responsibility of her commanding officer; but this responsibility is also shared by his immediate superiors in operational command since by the very fact of such command the individual commanding officer is not free to do at any time what his own judgment might indicate. Obviously no rational captain will permit his ship to be lost fruitlessly through blind obedience to plan or order, since by no chance could that be the intention of his superior. But the degree of a ship's danger is progressive and at the same time indefinite. It is one thing for a commanding officer, acting independently in time of peace, to pick a course and speed which may save him a beating from the weather, and quite another for him, in time of war, to disregard his mission and his orders and leave his station and duty.
It is here that the responsibility rests on unit, group, and force commanders, and that their judgment and authority must be exercised. They are of course the ones best qualified to weigh the situation and the relative urgency of safety measures versus carrying on with the job in hand. They frequently guard circuits and possess weather codes not available to all ships; and it goes without saying that any storm warnings or important weather information which they are not sure everybody have received should be re-transmitted as far as practicable. More than this, they must be conscious of the relative inexperience in seamanship, and particularly hurricane seamanship, of many of their commanding officers, despite their superb fighting qualities. One division commander reports that his captains averaged eight years or less out of the Naval Academy, and this is probably typical.
It is most definitely part of the senior officer's responsibility to think in terms of the smallest ship and most inexperienced commanding officer under him. He cannot take them for granted, give them tasks and stations, and assume either that they will be able to keep up and come through any weather that his own big ship can; or that they will be wise enough to gauge the exact moment when their tasks must be abandoned in order for them to keep afloat. The order for ships to be handled and navigated wholly for their own preservation should be originated early enough by the seniors, and not be necessarily withheld until the juniors request it. The very gallantry and determination of our young commanding officers need to be taken into account here as a danger factor, since their urge to keep on, to keep up, to keep station, and to carry out their mission in the face of any difficulty, may deter them from doing what is actually wisest and most profitable in the long run.
Yet if the Officer in Tactical Command is to be held responsible for his smaller vessels, he must be kept aware of their conditions, and the onus of this rests on the commanding officers themselves. Each of them must not only do whatever he is free and able to do for his ship's safety, but must also keep his superiors in the chain of command fully informed as to his situation. If there is anything in his ship's particular condition or in the way she is taking the weather that worries him, he should not hesitate to pass the information to his seniors. To let this be regarded as a sign of faint- heartedness is to invite disaster, and seniors should indoctrinate their commanding officers accordingly. Going still further, it has been shown that at sea the severity of the weather may develop to a point where, regardless of combat commitments of the high command, the situation will require independent action by a junior without reference to his senior. This becomes mandatory if grave doubts arise in the mind of the junior as to the safety of his vessel, the lives of its crew, and the loss of valuable government property and equipment.
In conclusion, both seniors and juniors alike must realize that in bad weather, as in most other situations, safety and fatal hazard are not separated by any sharp boundary line, but shade gradually from one into the other. There is no little red light which is going to flash on and inform commanding officers or higher commanders that from then on there is extreme danger from the weather, and that measures for ships' safety must now take precedence over further efforts to keep up with the formation or to execute the assigned task. This time will always be a matter of personal judgment. Naturally no commander is going to cut thin the margin between staying afloat and foundering, but he may nevertheless unwittingly pass the danger point even though no ship is yet in extremis. Ships that keep on going as long as the severity of wind and sea has not yet come close to capsizing them or breaking them in two, may nevertheless become helpless to avoid these catastrophes later if things get worse. By then they may be unable to steer any heading but in the trough of the sea, or may have their steering control, lighting, communications, and main propulsion disabled, or may be helpless to secure things on deck or to jettison topside weights. The time for taking all measures for a ship's safety is while still able to do so. Nothing is more dangerous than for a seaman to be grudging in taking precautions lest they turn out to have been unnecessary. Safety at sea for a thousand years has depended on exactly the opposite philosophy"
Admiral Chester Nimitz
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Burn Baby Burn!
I am aiming for 4 hours over destinaton and flying fast.
I am burning as much A1 as possible especially since I am about to leave this joint!
I am aiming for 4 hours over destinaton and flying fast.
I am burning as much A1 as possible especially since I am about to leave this joint!
Cant wait for the DEC contracts , i mean why should I start in the right seat at age 54 , ill happily Do 600hours a year in any port , its a good holiday now the kids have grown up.
Its also better than passing out commands on paperplates just because of a start date. **** me thats so lame in this day and age.
Its also better than passing out commands on paperplates just because of a start date. **** me thats so lame in this day and age.
I have been flying in GA for 6 years, piston and turboprop, and love it. I enjoy a set roster, plently of personal time and a personal and friendly relationship with management. I often thought I would move to the airlines when I needed more job security or a bigger pay packet to support a family or mortgage. My airline couterparts often said to me "I would do your job for my pay anyday".
It appears i'm earning more than Jetstar are offering now.
I have withdrawn my application and many of my colleagues have done the same. I pray there aren't too many who accept this offer..
It appears i'm earning more than Jetstar are offering now.
I have withdrawn my application and many of my colleagues have done the same. I pray there aren't too many who accept this offer..
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Mr Hat is absolutely right about making sure the right people are in the right jobs. In some parts of the finance industry APRA have a "fit and proper" requirement that is based around qualifications and experience. If you dont have it, you dont get acceptance by the regulator.
The finance industry can only lose money rather than cost lives.
Harsh but fair I say.
The finance industry can only lose money rather than cost lives.
Harsh but fair I say.
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In 1946, James Barnes wrote ‘Does history repeat itself, the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce? No, that is too grand, too considered a process. History just burps, and we taste again that raw-onion sandwich it swallowed centuries ago.” (A History of the World in 10½ Chapters),
We don’t have to go back centuries to review a tragedy in which management demonstrated absolutely no understanding of our profession. Each work day management presents a multi-million asset to the Pilot in Command to manage. How the PIC manages that asset has a direct impact on the airline’s P&L and as such the airline’s commercial viability.
The post by Captain Sherm (140) contains a very important message, not only for each of us, but particularly for the Flight Operations management team at JQ.
Goodness knows what is motivating them at this time. They will probably not heed any advice, least of all mine, but for what it is worth. Gents –
We don’t have to go back centuries to review a tragedy in which management demonstrated absolutely no understanding of our profession. Each work day management presents a multi-million asset to the Pilot in Command to manage. How the PIC manages that asset has a direct impact on the airline’s P&L and as such the airline’s commercial viability.
The post by Captain Sherm (140) contains a very important message, not only for each of us, but particularly for the Flight Operations management team at JQ.
Goodness knows what is motivating them at this time. They will probably not heed any advice, least of all mine, but for what it is worth. Gents –
· Behave in a professional manner.
· Start listening to your pilots.
· Deliver the truth to your management.
· Don’t allow yourselves to be used and as such be responsible for another attack on the Profession of Air Pilot.
· Do not be responsible for creating an environment that results in a degradation of safety standards. Poor morale, anger and distraction are safety issues.
· Remember the ATSB will investigate management’s role in any accident / incident.
People may treat the Senate with contempt, but such behaviour will not be tolerated at a Royal Commission!
· Start listening to your pilots.
· Deliver the truth to your management.
· Don’t allow yourselves to be used and as such be responsible for another attack on the Profession of Air Pilot.
· Do not be responsible for creating an environment that results in a degradation of safety standards. Poor morale, anger and distraction are safety issues.
· Remember the ATSB will investigate management’s role in any accident / incident.
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I'd be interested to see some of the emails, can imagine the general context but would be really interesting to see what's being said. Unity is key & bugger the ones that take this dismal offer.
As they are internal company emails, most of us are reluctant to release. However, I would like to say how proud I am that several hundred pilots have told management 'how it is'(warts and all-some VERY colourful), and for all of you on the sidelines, be assured that CASA, media and certain politicians are all primed. These guys are reckless, and out of control. 
....and for anyone thinking of joining? Hmmmm. I wouldn't recommend it as it stands. But IF you decide to join, please read EVERY bit of fine print, because if you sign up, you will have very little sympathy from the guys in the crew room, or in the LHS when you feel you want to vent, when you can't go away for the week end on YOUR DAYS OFF, as crewing won't release you. It is ridiculous. 
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[QUOTE]JETSTAR has been bombarded with hundreds of signed emails from its pilots, warning that the airline is placing the lives of passengers and flight crews at risk in its bid to force new pilots on to ''deficient'' group contracts.
At close of business yesterday, more than 320 of Jetstar's pool of about 400 pilots had written to the airline's group chief executive, Brian Buchanan.
Many of the emails had also been copied to Alan Joyce, the chief executive of Jetstar's parent company, Qantas - which was dealing with its own crisis after a flight from Singapore had to be diverted to Adelaide yesterday because the plane was not carrying enough fuel to reach its Melbourne destination.
Advertisement: Story continues below
About 50 angry pilots did make it to Melbourne, however, to attend a heated meeting with Jetstar's Australia and New Zealand boss, David Hall. A similar meeting, where senior executives will address pilots' working conditions and safety concerns, is scheduled for Sydney today.
Pilots say the move to force recruits on to contracts outside the enterprise bargaining agreement will lead to distracting conflict on the flight deck and in the long-term a more inexperienced workforce, ill-equipped to handle mid-air emergencies.
Captain Michael Danaher, a senior Airbus A320 captain who has been with Jetstar since its inception, said the new contracts, which offer less pay and poorer working conditions for new pilots, represented a short-sighted grab for immediate financial gain which would compromise the airline's safety standards and result in long-term damage to its reputation.
''On a daily basis, my crew and I are constantly blocking errors and threats to the safety of our aircraft, staff and passengers,'' he said in an email to Jetstar senior executives. ''We need skilled crew on the flight deck with ample experience to do this rather than pilots with little experience.''
Another email seen by the Herald, by Captain James Matthews, warns that morale among the pilots is at an all-time low.
''I am worried that this will start to have safety impacts on the operation as this issue is all that people are talking about and everyone is so angry, and this leads to a huge distraction in the flight deck.''
The secretary of the Australian and International Pilots Association, Steve Anderson, said the new contracts, under which cadets could accumulate a training debt of $150,000 to the airline while earning as little as $34,000 a year, would place Jetstar at the bottom of the international scale and would lead to transient, less experienced pilots.
''This is not about money; it's about terms and conditions of employment and how it is now becoming a safety factor,'' Captain Anderson said.
Jetstar's spokesman, Simon Westaway, said passenger safety would in no way be compromised. He confirmed the airline had received a large number of pilots' emails in the past four days.
Mr Westaway rejected allegations Jetstar had used up all the goodwill Mr Joyce often cited as the airline group's biggest asset.
''Part of our secret of success is that we have always had open discourse [with staff],'' he said. ''The meetings occurring have been very constructive … and we will continue to have direct dialogue.''[QUOTE]
At least its getting into the media now.
Surely the X man and his senators will do something about this. Its not like its one or 2 pilots complaining....its 320 out of 400!!
At close of business yesterday, more than 320 of Jetstar's pool of about 400 pilots had written to the airline's group chief executive, Brian Buchanan.
Many of the emails had also been copied to Alan Joyce, the chief executive of Jetstar's parent company, Qantas - which was dealing with its own crisis after a flight from Singapore had to be diverted to Adelaide yesterday because the plane was not carrying enough fuel to reach its Melbourne destination.
Advertisement: Story continues below
About 50 angry pilots did make it to Melbourne, however, to attend a heated meeting with Jetstar's Australia and New Zealand boss, David Hall. A similar meeting, where senior executives will address pilots' working conditions and safety concerns, is scheduled for Sydney today.
Pilots say the move to force recruits on to contracts outside the enterprise bargaining agreement will lead to distracting conflict on the flight deck and in the long-term a more inexperienced workforce, ill-equipped to handle mid-air emergencies.
Captain Michael Danaher, a senior Airbus A320 captain who has been with Jetstar since its inception, said the new contracts, which offer less pay and poorer working conditions for new pilots, represented a short-sighted grab for immediate financial gain which would compromise the airline's safety standards and result in long-term damage to its reputation.
''On a daily basis, my crew and I are constantly blocking errors and threats to the safety of our aircraft, staff and passengers,'' he said in an email to Jetstar senior executives. ''We need skilled crew on the flight deck with ample experience to do this rather than pilots with little experience.''
Another email seen by the Herald, by Captain James Matthews, warns that morale among the pilots is at an all-time low.
''I am worried that this will start to have safety impacts on the operation as this issue is all that people are talking about and everyone is so angry, and this leads to a huge distraction in the flight deck.''
The secretary of the Australian and International Pilots Association, Steve Anderson, said the new contracts, under which cadets could accumulate a training debt of $150,000 to the airline while earning as little as $34,000 a year, would place Jetstar at the bottom of the international scale and would lead to transient, less experienced pilots.
''This is not about money; it's about terms and conditions of employment and how it is now becoming a safety factor,'' Captain Anderson said.
Jetstar's spokesman, Simon Westaway, said passenger safety would in no way be compromised. He confirmed the airline had received a large number of pilots' emails in the past four days.
Mr Westaway rejected allegations Jetstar had used up all the goodwill Mr Joyce often cited as the airline group's biggest asset.
''Part of our secret of success is that we have always had open discourse [with staff],'' he said. ''The meetings occurring have been very constructive … and we will continue to have direct dialogue.''[QUOTE]
At least its getting into the media now.
Surely the X man and his senators will do something about this. Its not like its one or 2 pilots complaining....its 320 out of 400!!
