Virgin Does What Qantas Can't
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Land Down Under
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Borghetti as a Bully ?
You know this how ?
I have met Borghetti in both a work and social environment.He has never given any indication that he is a bully.I've seen him angry and impatient.What executive of any company doesnt get miffed from time to time?Borghetti was known as one of the red tail men along with the likes of John Ward and Roger Lindeman.Lindeman and Borghetti work together well.Lindeman is not only astute but is also one of nature's gentleman.I cant see him getting along well with a bully.
It is fact that Borghetti and Dixon butted heads.To Dixon Borghetti represented the old Qantas culture and had more airline experience.Borghetti had already been with Qantas for 20 years before it was floated.He understood the concept of service excellence.Dixon managed to destroy that concept.Does anyone honestly think Borghetti would willingly destroy a culture that he was a party to creating ?
Perhaps he will introduce the old Qantas Culture to Virgin.The culture that worked and made Qantas what it once was.A damned good airline.Not the mess it is now.You can thank Dixon for that
I have met Borghetti in both a work and social environment.He has never given any indication that he is a bully.I've seen him angry and impatient.What executive of any company doesnt get miffed from time to time?Borghetti was known as one of the red tail men along with the likes of John Ward and Roger Lindeman.Lindeman and Borghetti work together well.Lindeman is not only astute but is also one of nature's gentleman.I cant see him getting along well with a bully.
It is fact that Borghetti and Dixon butted heads.To Dixon Borghetti represented the old Qantas culture and had more airline experience.Borghetti had already been with Qantas for 20 years before it was floated.He understood the concept of service excellence.Dixon managed to destroy that concept.Does anyone honestly think Borghetti would willingly destroy a culture that he was a party to creating ?
Perhaps he will introduce the old Qantas Culture to Virgin.The culture that worked and made Qantas what it once was.A damned good airline.Not the mess it is now.You can thank Dixon for that
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Skating away on the thin ice of a new day.
Posts: 1,116
Received 13 Likes
on
8 Posts
Depends on the cabin you are in wateroff.They are not all 1985 (or older)
Management have relied on getting the 787s sooner and failed to upgrade with less revolutionary product when they should have.
Epic failure.
That happens when you think you are untouchable and are focused on the low yield end above all.
Management have relied on getting the 787s sooner and failed to upgrade with less revolutionary product when they should have.
Epic failure.
That happens when you think you are untouchable and are focused on the low yield end above all.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: australia
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
J.B. was actually brought in to implement these changes and change the airline because it was "caught in the middle" between J* /tiger and Qf. This has been a work in progress for a long time, hasn't been implemented as a knee jerk reaction to losses. V.B weaknesses under the old model have been exposed in the last couple of years and the only way to continue to survive was to change the model....enter J.B. I think trying to capture a small amount of the business market (after around 10% more, 20 % total) is the only way to go. It will increase the yields, as flights are regularly very full and is easily achievable provided the service is up to scratch. The cabins look great, for once the job hasn't been half done. Companies that didnt use V.B in the past on longer sectors, only shorter trips due to no business class may use Virgin Aust exclusively. The changes in the last 12 months around the place have been really positive.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Skating away on the thin ice of a new day.
Posts: 1,116
Received 13 Likes
on
8 Posts
That is good news. Raising the bar rather than racing to the bottom must be good.
If VB take business away from QF, and surely they will , QF must react.
Probably good all round.
If VB take business away from QF, and surely they will , QF must react.
Probably good all round.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Does it matter
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agree with posts above...this change can only be a good thing as long as QF dont act arrogantly (as I fear they will) and simply rest on their laurels and compete by claiming superior network, schedules, lounges, blah blah blah.
As i mentioned on another thread somewhere else, QF have to go back to basics. Lets face it, the Jetstar brand is on the nose with ALOT of people. QF
should do what SQ do with Tiger..distance themselves from it as much as possible. Scrap all the codeshare (which is damaging the QF brand day by day)
and make Jetstar what it was meant to be ...low cost, cheap and cheerful carrier that does not cannibilise mainline.
QF mainline has to regroup and refocus on what it should be (or strives to be). A premium, full service airlne that is able to take advantage of the bouyant economic times we are experiencing. The amount of money being splashed around by people these days is insane and QF needs to capitalise on this and fast!
Unfortunately those at the top have very different priorities and I cant see anything even close to the above happening....sadly
As i mentioned on another thread somewhere else, QF have to go back to basics. Lets face it, the Jetstar brand is on the nose with ALOT of people. QF
should do what SQ do with Tiger..distance themselves from it as much as possible. Scrap all the codeshare (which is damaging the QF brand day by day)
and make Jetstar what it was meant to be ...low cost, cheap and cheerful carrier that does not cannibilise mainline.
QF mainline has to regroup and refocus on what it should be (or strives to be). A premium, full service airlne that is able to take advantage of the bouyant economic times we are experiencing. The amount of money being splashed around by people these days is insane and QF needs to capitalise on this and fast!
Unfortunately those at the top have very different priorities and I cant see anything even close to the above happening....sadly
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Age: 62
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The last significant change Q made was introducing premium economy. Personally, as a turn-left PAX this causes me some grief, because its good enough to meet *some* of the key drivers my finance people like, so I am being increasingly targetted there, but in not having lie-flat or even 5% slippery slope, its not good enough to leave me feeling slept and happy on arrival after a 15-25h flight plan.
The announced Dallas Hub is going to be the same: it looks great on paper, and will be greeted with cheers by some travel planners, because it increases hopoff options. But although I hate LAX, I doubt Dallas is going to put me into better routing choices facing my travel. Its a fine airport, but its not good timewise for the northern routes.
Dropping SF, dropping Vanouver, Dropping Paris, Dropping Rome, were stunningly bad moves if you want to explore routing options avoiding LHR or FRA. Barjas is a fantastic airport, I suspect the stuffed up Spanish share deal with BA prevented that one working which saddens me.
So, if Q wants to maintain loyalty, its caught on the horns of a dilemma: any improvement in Econ rebounds, because business moves down, and they loose revenue which does not offset the improved feeling from somebody who was always in economy. keeping open non-financial endpoints in europe and america(s) likewise doesn't make enough to offset the opex consequences.
I think its time national-pride got out of the way, and Q was joined to a rational partner in East Asia. the BA tie in has reached end of life for me, oneworld is good enough. I dont see Q benefiting from a one-on-one comparison with world traveller or the BA lieflat in business. Mind you, the BA service is shocking. I might give a wry smile to service outside of business class, but by comparison with the sour faces on the Brits, its a dream run (I also find Singapore a complete mismatch. I have no idea why everyone raves. Its fawning, and its not that great.)
Shame JAL is down the tubes. I like the Narita routing. Maybe a Korean or the more likely Chinese tie-in with a Shanghai hub is going to make it work.
Domestically, its all downhill. the self-service checkin is just de-staffing pure and simple. Its not an improvement for me. On-times, flight times, the 30 min minimum checkin, international-domestic tie in is just crap.
(after a 2 hr wait to be given my mandated overnight accomm in sydney from a BA/Q reroute, I am less than impressed with staff empowerment. a decision which was a one-minute call took 5 people 2 hours to complete)
-G
The announced Dallas Hub is going to be the same: it looks great on paper, and will be greeted with cheers by some travel planners, because it increases hopoff options. But although I hate LAX, I doubt Dallas is going to put me into better routing choices facing my travel. Its a fine airport, but its not good timewise for the northern routes.
Dropping SF, dropping Vanouver, Dropping Paris, Dropping Rome, were stunningly bad moves if you want to explore routing options avoiding LHR or FRA. Barjas is a fantastic airport, I suspect the stuffed up Spanish share deal with BA prevented that one working which saddens me.
So, if Q wants to maintain loyalty, its caught on the horns of a dilemma: any improvement in Econ rebounds, because business moves down, and they loose revenue which does not offset the improved feeling from somebody who was always in economy. keeping open non-financial endpoints in europe and america(s) likewise doesn't make enough to offset the opex consequences.
I think its time national-pride got out of the way, and Q was joined to a rational partner in East Asia. the BA tie in has reached end of life for me, oneworld is good enough. I dont see Q benefiting from a one-on-one comparison with world traveller or the BA lieflat in business. Mind you, the BA service is shocking. I might give a wry smile to service outside of business class, but by comparison with the sour faces on the Brits, its a dream run (I also find Singapore a complete mismatch. I have no idea why everyone raves. Its fawning, and its not that great.)
Shame JAL is down the tubes. I like the Narita routing. Maybe a Korean or the more likely Chinese tie-in with a Shanghai hub is going to make it work.
Domestically, its all downhill. the self-service checkin is just de-staffing pure and simple. Its not an improvement for me. On-times, flight times, the 30 min minimum checkin, international-domestic tie in is just crap.
(after a 2 hr wait to be given my mandated overnight accomm in sydney from a BA/Q reroute, I am less than impressed with staff empowerment. a decision which was a one-minute call took 5 people 2 hours to complete)
-G
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Australia
Age: 74
Posts: 221
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I guess there’s been about 7,000 posts on Prune about Jetstar, some thoughtful, many abusive and some ignorant. We could no doubt have run a medium sized hydro-electric generator with all the bucketing that has gone on.
All relate in some way or another, however obliquely, to the issue of what to do about rapid growth in the lower yield markets. How to capture it profitably without cannibalizing your own traffic and how to maintain the yields in areas where the market is willing to pay more.
Qantas was always in a better position than anyone to run an LCC subsidiary. It’s ability to internally cross-subsidize in many forms, not just cash, is actually a great strength, not a weakness. Like gravity, you don’t have to like that fact, or agree with it, but it's there and remains true.
But here’s the real deal. Amid the 000’s of Jetstar posts there were two that were pure gold and should be written up on the walls of crew rooms, board rooms, executive washrooms and anywhere else that you can find. Forget the rest.
The posts were by whatever6719 and they sum it all up in exactly 55 words.
I really do think a successful 2 brand strategy was their intention, but, they got greedy. They saw the savings that could be made by "Jetstarising" Qantas and they have sadly gone too far with it.
Make Jetstar what it was meant to be ...low cost, cheap and cheerful carrier that does not cannibilise mainline.
Whoever you are 6719, well written.
Thanks
Sherm
All relate in some way or another, however obliquely, to the issue of what to do about rapid growth in the lower yield markets. How to capture it profitably without cannibalizing your own traffic and how to maintain the yields in areas where the market is willing to pay more.
Qantas was always in a better position than anyone to run an LCC subsidiary. It’s ability to internally cross-subsidize in many forms, not just cash, is actually a great strength, not a weakness. Like gravity, you don’t have to like that fact, or agree with it, but it's there and remains true.
But here’s the real deal. Amid the 000’s of Jetstar posts there were two that were pure gold and should be written up on the walls of crew rooms, board rooms, executive washrooms and anywhere else that you can find. Forget the rest.
The posts were by whatever6719 and they sum it all up in exactly 55 words.
I really do think a successful 2 brand strategy was their intention, but, they got greedy. They saw the savings that could be made by "Jetstarising" Qantas and they have sadly gone too far with it.
Make Jetstar what it was meant to be ...low cost, cheap and cheerful carrier that does not cannibilise mainline.
Whoever you are 6719, well written.
Thanks
Sherm
Good points Sherm.
Remembering that Onestar was a defensive move by QF to secure market share (but at what cost yield?) and to squeeze VB. It worked. Now VB has to upgrade to move into the world of full service, where face painting and sing-a-longs will not be enough.
This places the ball in QFs court. The QF 330s are nice enough and the new 737s will help but it really is game on now.
The share market seems unimpressed though.
Remembering that Onestar was a defensive move by QF to secure market share (but at what cost yield?) and to squeeze VB. It worked. Now VB has to upgrade to move into the world of full service, where face painting and sing-a-longs will not be enough.
This places the ball in QFs court. The QF 330s are nice enough and the new 737s will help but it really is game on now.
The share market seems unimpressed though.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,382
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Actually the whole thing plays right into Alan Joyce and Jetstars hands.
Jetstar will continue to follow and move away from the low cost and take more of QF's work.
In the end they will have QF's work at a tenth of the cost in wages.
Jetstar will continue to follow and move away from the low cost and take more of QF's work.
In the end they will have QF's work at a tenth of the cost in wages.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: shivering in the cold dark shadow of my own magnificence.
Posts: 522
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Indeed, I wonder how long it will be until Jetstar install a full service business class product with access to QANTAS services.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Does it matter
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If AJ and co introduce Business Class on Jetstar domestic services, it would be the most idiotic thing they could do. If it happens, it's game over for QF as we currently know it.
Hopefully they won't be that stupid!
Hopefully they won't be that stupid!
Join Date: May 2011
Location: IOM
Posts: 967
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Exactly @6719
That's what Qantas is for. Your summing up is right. They need to focus on Jetstar filling the gaps ex-VirginBlue is leaving now they can cater for less general domestic economy seats and Qantas needs to go on the attack for the business travel.
If they get this wrong, they really will stuff themselves. I sure hope they aren't stupid enough.
That's what Qantas is for. Your summing up is right. They need to focus on Jetstar filling the gaps ex-VirginBlue is leaving now they can cater for less general domestic economy seats and Qantas needs to go on the attack for the business travel.
If they get this wrong, they really will stuff themselves. I sure hope they aren't stupid enough.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Canberra
Posts: 382
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gotta larf at the B777 v A380 threads.
That argurment has been done to death and is redundent as can be...10 years ago in the case for QF to procure the B777.
The A380 is yet to see its glory days.
That argurment has been done to death and is redundent as can be...10 years ago in the case for QF to procure the B777.
The A380 is yet to see its glory days.
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
QF hasn't had to compete in domestic business-class for years. So they cut it all back, product, service, fleet. Now that they have to compete, I am sure they will. They have the cash and now.. the reason. They will up their product quick-smart.
They also have the premium frequent flyers, the government and corporate contracts, the chairmans lounge, and the aircraft.
Virgin has developed a fantastic product (although with a middle seat in JC on the 330,which Qantas announced today they are removing due to customer feedback), but they are making a hefty loss, and will face an uphill battle with swaying the corporate giants.
Qantas just has to meet the new standard. They are not in a position where they have to better it. If they meet Virgin's inflight product, they will win. They already have the corporate market, if they make it as good as Virgin's, they wont lose that market.
They also have the premium frequent flyers, the government and corporate contracts, the chairmans lounge, and the aircraft.
Virgin has developed a fantastic product (although with a middle seat in JC on the 330,which Qantas announced today they are removing due to customer feedback), but they are making a hefty loss, and will face an uphill battle with swaying the corporate giants.
Qantas just has to meet the new standard. They are not in a position where they have to better it. If they meet Virgin's inflight product, they will win. They already have the corporate market, if they make it as good as Virgin's, they wont lose that market.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: PERTH,AUSTRALIA
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agree in part c.e. or should that be lower lobe?
However,nice seats and lounges do not make up for staff that are at war with the company no matter how you spin it.
However,nice seats and lounges do not make up for staff that are at war with the company no matter how you spin it.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That's what Qantas is for. Your summing up is right. They need to focus on Jetstar filling the gaps ex-VirginBlue is leaving now they can cater for less general domestic economy seats and Qantas needs to go on the attack for the business travel.
On a 767 fine 30...
But at the end of the day most of the money is down the back, and now that JQ and DJ have frequency that gets close to QF, that hot scroll/ apple or complimentary alcoholic drink after 4 aren't worth the $50-200 that they used to be...
It then returns to costs.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Does it matter
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But hang on a sec moa, most of the money is NOT being made down the back.
Its those expensive seats at the front that help the bottom line which is the reason Virgin Australia are undertaking this very expensive revamp which includes Business Class on every one of their aircraft.
People dont fly for schedule and price alone. If that where true, Qantas would be flying empty and I can assure you, we are definately not.
Its those expensive seats at the front that help the bottom line which is the reason Virgin Australia are undertaking this very expensive revamp which includes Business Class on every one of their aircraft.
People dont fly for schedule and price alone. If that where true, Qantas would be flying empty and I can assure you, we are definately not.