Jetstar to start recruiting
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BP77,
the program you are missing is called
'The Big Picture'
it starts at 9:30pm - obviously past your bedtime.
Please don't consider yourself an elitest by paying 200k for a slot in a shiny jet. There are many intelligent people that see past this scam!
Consider this - GA jobs a plenty.
Go to a local flying school and fork out 60K for a licence maybe a tad more for ATPL theory. Work a part time job earning a quid to help pay for it.
GA up north is still happening and jobs are not that hard to come by.
Enjoy the single engine, multi engine progression.
Most of all enjoy the friendships and life experience you'll have. That will last longer than the time you wait to fly your fancy jet for a sub standard (in terms of employment conditions) airline.
Along with doing it that way you also might be able to borrow some cash and buy a house (not be debt laden) without being a burden on your parents!
Its not a harder path its a different rewarding path and you'll end up in an airline doing your command there abouts the same time your cadet buddies will be. In saying that I can assure you that the decisions you make as a captain will be a reflection or which way you go!
the program you are missing is called
'The Big Picture'
it starts at 9:30pm - obviously past your bedtime.
Please don't consider yourself an elitest by paying 200k for a slot in a shiny jet. There are many intelligent people that see past this scam!
Consider this - GA jobs a plenty.
Go to a local flying school and fork out 60K for a licence maybe a tad more for ATPL theory. Work a part time job earning a quid to help pay for it.
GA up north is still happening and jobs are not that hard to come by.
Enjoy the single engine, multi engine progression.
Most of all enjoy the friendships and life experience you'll have. That will last longer than the time you wait to fly your fancy jet for a sub standard (in terms of employment conditions) airline.
Along with doing it that way you also might be able to borrow some cash and buy a house (not be debt laden) without being a burden on your parents!
Its not a harder path its a different rewarding path and you'll end up in an airline doing your command there abouts the same time your cadet buddies will be. In saying that I can assure you that the decisions you make as a captain will be a reflection or which way you go!
BP
Are you able to explain to us how the cadets will get enough P in C hours for an ATPL? It may be possible in OZ certainly not here in NZ, without getting some flying other than co pilot time.
After they have enough hours to get ATPL's
We know what Jet* recruitment staff are like. Sounded like rife that was simply just repeated by someone who was gullible enough to believe it.
With regards to appitude testing, BP, that means nothing, I have been involved with a 217 org for a very long time, I have trained Cadets who have been through "aptitude testing" and believe me, they are of the same tier as everyone else. Yes you do get the good ones (cadets) but you also get cadets that just should not be there, and let me tell you the majority, simply should not be there, they can be extremely difficult.
Often its those that have had to work hard to get the airline job that put in the effort and have the extreme desire to make something of it, not the person who has the most money lying around.
With regards to appitude testing, BP, that means nothing, I have been involved with a 217 org for a very long time, I have trained Cadets who have been through "aptitude testing" and believe me, they are of the same tier as everyone else. Yes you do get the good ones (cadets) but you also get cadets that just should not be there, and let me tell you the majority, simply should not be there, they can be extremely difficult.
Often its those that have had to work hard to get the airline job that put in the effort and have the extreme desire to make something of it, not the person who has the most money lying around.
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Maybe someone can explain this- the jq cadetship as well as the Rex one give applicants a maximum of 70 pic or whatever they accumulate up to cpl, but definitely not 100 or anywhere near it.
Correct me if im wrong but I am positive you need 100 pic to start with sd you can only count 150 ICUS towards atpl making the sum of 250 to get the full atpl.. Qantaslink has this requirement even.. The fact jetstar/Rex don't do this for ab initios ( and Rex don't even train them for atpls) sends a clear message to me- no command for a very very very long time! Also- your 200k stated before is gonna be plus the 30 command more a jetstar cadet will need to pay on light ac out of their OWN pocket.. So let's say maybe 6k? Ahahh
Correct me if im wrong but I am positive you need 100 pic to start with sd you can only count 150 ICUS towards atpl making the sum of 250 to get the full atpl.. Qantaslink has this requirement even.. The fact jetstar/Rex don't do this for ab initios ( and Rex don't even train them for atpls) sends a clear message to me- no command for a very very very long time! Also- your 200k stated before is gonna be plus the 30 command more a jetstar cadet will need to pay on light ac out of their OWN pocket.. So let's say maybe 6k? Ahahh
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At the risk of labouring something pointless
BP77 appears to be (previous posts) a very young RAAF fast jet aspirant that was knocked back for maturity, despite apparently scoring well in other facets.
Which puts his comments on this thread in to perspective.
BP77 appears to be (previous posts) a very young RAAF fast jet aspirant that was knocked back for maturity, despite apparently scoring well in other facets.
Which puts his comments on this thread in to perspective.
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BP777
One thing that recruiting failed to tell you was YOU WONT BE ON THE EBA
so all the pay rises you mention are not applicable.
you will be on a contract that shares no resemblence to the EBA, it barely resembles the Modern Award..
One thing that recruiting failed to tell you was YOU WONT BE ON THE EBA
so all the pay rises you mention are not applicable.
you will be on a contract that shares no resemblence to the EBA, it barely resembles the Modern Award..
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Can someone please explain to me how it can, under the FWA regime, not resemble the award or be an improvement on it? It is my understanding that a company and an individual can no longer trade conditions if it reduces them below the award?
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Roger, no doubt they have teams of lawyers combing the 700+ pages of complex legislation for loopholes, and it looks like they have found one:
Post #1051 by UnderneathTheRadar in Merged: Senate Inquiry
Barry Jackson from AIPA on the radio this morning - seems that the 4 cadets have been employed in Australia outside the EBA.
$57k per annum, no increase for 6 years, $80k in training costs to be repaid to the company.
How dumb can you be?
$57k per annum, no increase for 6 years, $80k in training costs to be repaid to the company.
How dumb can you be?
For nkand,
Getting the command time for the Australian ATPL is unfortunately a total non-issue now. Qantaslink have opened the gateway on this one. F/Os without an ATPL are logging ICUS while "Pilot Flying" in the RHS with any captain up to the amount required for the issue of an ATPL. All approved and signed off in the operations manual by CASA. Shouldn't be an issue for Jetstar and others to do the same eventually.
5.172 Aeronautical experience: minimum requirements
(1)For the purposes of paragraph 5.165 (1) (f), a person’s aeronautical experience must consist of at least 1,500 hours of flight time that includes 750 hours as pilot of a registered aeroplane, or a recognised aeroplane.
(2) The 750 hours must include:
(a) any of the following:
(i) at least 250 hours of flight time as pilot in command;
(ii) at least 500 hours of flight time as pilot acting in command under supervision;
(iii) at least 250 hours of flight time, consisting of at least 70 hours of flight time as pilot in command and the balance as pilot acting in command under supervision; and
(b) at least 200 hours of cross‑country flight time; and
(c) at least 75 hours of instrument flight time; and
(d) at least 100 hours of flight time at night as pilot in command or as co‑pilot.
(1)For the purposes of paragraph 5.165 (1) (f), a person’s aeronautical experience must consist of at least 1,500 hours of flight time that includes 750 hours as pilot of a registered aeroplane, or a recognised aeroplane.
(2) The 750 hours must include:
(a) any of the following:
(i) at least 250 hours of flight time as pilot in command;
(ii) at least 500 hours of flight time as pilot acting in command under supervision;
(iii) at least 250 hours of flight time, consisting of at least 70 hours of flight time as pilot in command and the balance as pilot acting in command under supervision; and
(b) at least 200 hours of cross‑country flight time; and
(c) at least 75 hours of instrument flight time; and
(d) at least 100 hours of flight time at night as pilot in command or as co‑pilot.
but to get into a cadet program you have to pass aptitude testing. You can't be of the same tier as the rest of the flying population. With only 15 or so spots with each intake with J* and thousands of applicants, you have to be the elite to get a spot, so its quite likely cadets would make some pretty damn good pilots.
J* Cadets are not elite pilots and in a low cost pilot environment will not be required to demonstrate high standards.
They are a vehicle to drive wages down by negating experience and ominously, via wage conditioning ie: I am getting double the Cadet wage gee I am on a good wicket!
Bogans with Bars. How many do they get BTW. One or Two?
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What is actually happening?
They say generalisations don't help anyone.. but...lol
the "smartbum" cadet pilot: 18yo to mid twenties, wealthy parents, aspirations of fighter pilot but oz military have surplus of pilots now, so they now look at getting into a jet another way ASAP, enthusiastic, motivated and don't really care about guys who have slogged it out for 5-8yrs flying charter / instructing. They would like to but can't grasp how much personal development is achieved "out bush" and under rate it.
Easily molded into company culture.
the "grumpybum" ga/regional pilot: 25 to even 40 yo's, got into industry later than 18, due to finances, uni study or just being a ratbag
slogged it out with multiple jobs and realised that flying is the way to go. Done alot of hard yards as a result. Might have gone through a couple of partners/wives due to dodgy places and pay. developed chip on the shoulder and a "we deserve a shot" mentality (justified) which might come across in the interview (not so good).
these two groups won't be able to agree on much, cadets show some respect, ga/regional pilots just keep breathing lol
They say generalisations don't help anyone.. but...lol
the "smartbum" cadet pilot: 18yo to mid twenties, wealthy parents, aspirations of fighter pilot but oz military have surplus of pilots now, so they now look at getting into a jet another way ASAP, enthusiastic, motivated and don't really care about guys who have slogged it out for 5-8yrs flying charter / instructing. They would like to but can't grasp how much personal development is achieved "out bush" and under rate it.
Easily molded into company culture.
the "grumpybum" ga/regional pilot: 25 to even 40 yo's, got into industry later than 18, due to finances, uni study or just being a ratbag
slogged it out with multiple jobs and realised that flying is the way to go. Done alot of hard yards as a result. Might have gone through a couple of partners/wives due to dodgy places and pay. developed chip on the shoulder and a "we deserve a shot" mentality (justified) which might come across in the interview (not so good). these two groups won't be able to agree on much, cadets show some respect, ga/regional pilots just keep breathing lol
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wingroot, that is correct. However, the company ops manual must allow the logging of ICUS time, and any conditions attached to that logging.
Given the form of this mob, the ability to keep these cadets on a dirt cheap contract for 6 years it would be tempting for a bonus driven manager. Denying the ability to log ICUS time, or only allowing to be logged with approved captains would slow down the time to gain the ATPL. Of course, should that present a problem in the future, they could simply modify the policy as they see fit.
They could keep these cadets on a very short leash for a long time. Lets face it , they own them, lock, stock & barrel, they are indentured labor.
Given the form of this mob, the ability to keep these cadets on a dirt cheap contract for 6 years it would be tempting for a bonus driven manager. Denying the ability to log ICUS time, or only allowing to be logged with approved captains would slow down the time to gain the ATPL. Of course, should that present a problem in the future, they could simply modify the policy as they see fit.
They could keep these cadets on a very short leash for a long time. Lets face it , they own them, lock, stock & barrel, they are indentured labor.
Wing root has highlighted the way in which CASA facilitated the airlines prosecution of these scams by the recent changes to the ATPL. I touched on this subject about a year ago, and it's just another example of what "...an effective and rigorous regulator we have..." (Bruce Buchanan/giving evidence at the Senate Enquiry).
The reduction of non ICUS command from 100 hours down to 70 hours fits perfectly with the Cadet/MPL training scams. The raising of the total ICUS time from 250 hours to 500 is a cynical ploy to give the illusion of increasing the requirements. With the insane practice of a candidate being able to log ICUS from the RHS, with no formal supervision whatsoever, simply because they are flying the sector, its just a matter of an additional 4 or so months as a co-pilot to meet the mins. It's Game, Set, and Match for the airlines. Thankyou Ball boys, thankyou CASA!
Hopefully the Senate Enquiry's ongoing investigation into the relationship between CASA and these Arseh@les will go deep enough to uncover this piece of skullduggary as well.
The reduction of non ICUS command from 100 hours down to 70 hours fits perfectly with the Cadet/MPL training scams. The raising of the total ICUS time from 250 hours to 500 is a cynical ploy to give the illusion of increasing the requirements. With the insane practice of a candidate being able to log ICUS from the RHS, with no formal supervision whatsoever, simply because they are flying the sector, its just a matter of an additional 4 or so months as a co-pilot to meet the mins. It's Game, Set, and Match for the airlines. Thankyou Ball boys, thankyou CASA!
Hopefully the Senate Enquiry's ongoing investigation into the relationship between CASA and these Arseh@les will go deep enough to uncover this piece of skullduggary as well.
Thread Starter
So where does this leave all the EBA guys?? Piss them off to the point they all leave and then just build a workforce on these contracts?
Does JQ think it's more financially viable to be considered a training ground for pilots to get jet time and move overseas then actually pay the EBA and retain pilots?
Where are their captains going to come from in 10-20 years time? DEC's?
Does JQ think it's more financially viable to be considered a training ground for pilots to get jet time and move overseas then actually pay the EBA and retain pilots?
Where are their captains going to come from in 10-20 years time? DEC's?
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its out....... 14 positions for a start in july. Jetstar Group agreement. Paid an hourly rate of $101 per block hour with a min guarantee of 600 hours a year and no seniority. 4 weeks annual leave.......
A mate was offered the position this morning.............
Good luck to you all
A mate was offered the position this morning.............
Good luck to you all
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Wingroot,
thanks for that! I didnt realize they had changed that recently- i see why they havent made it public anywhere or stand out though..
imagine if that was brought up in the senate inquiry- Would really make CASA look like the rogue operator they actually are and get into bed with anyone and everyone who can make them a dollar! Qantaslink still has the 100 PIC highly desirable on their applications.. I wonder if they even know about this change if it was just done recently for Jetstar
thanks for that! I didnt realize they had changed that recently- i see why they havent made it public anywhere or stand out though..
imagine if that was brought up in the senate inquiry- Would really make CASA look like the rogue operator they actually are and get into bed with anyone and everyone who can make them a dollar! Qantaslink still has the 100 PIC highly desirable on their applications.. I wonder if they even know about this change if it was just done recently for Jetstar
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If those figures are true then it is over 40% below what Tiger are offering for 500 hours and it is still well below if you fly to the annual limit. If it's part time they aren't going to get many days out of the pilot pool. It would be 22 hours per week for a max of 12 days a month. If they increase above that then leave days would have to increase.