Jetstar Singapore cabin crew
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Jetstar Singapore cabin crew
WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THIS AIRLINE, its ment to be an Australia company that you could imagine they would be employing australia citizens or people with the right to work in australia on there Australia reg airline.
Surely that means when they start their duties in australia before the aircraft take off they are illegally working in the country?
can any one please give me some details of how overseas crews avoid immigration and visa's and working permit (the aircraft they are flying in is Australia reg aircraft with Australia pilots but the cabin crew are people from who know where without working permits for australia..
A lot of Jetstars Singapore base crew are not even singapore citizens, a lot of them just have a singapore working permit and are citizens of china or where ever.
I just think its a real shame that jetstar cant support Australians and employ australians.........
Surely that means when they start their duties in australia before the aircraft take off they are illegally working in the country?
can any one please give me some details of how overseas crews avoid immigration and visa's and working permit (the aircraft they are flying in is Australia reg aircraft with Australia pilots but the cabin crew are people from who know where without working permits for australia..
A lot of Jetstars Singapore base crew are not even singapore citizens, a lot of them just have a singapore working permit and are citizens of china or where ever.
I just think its a real shame that jetstar cant support Australians and employ australians.........
Last edited by flightasia; 24th Apr 2011 at 06:57.
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agree with posting comments and it really is a shame, however its completely legal . QF group legal team would have def found a loop HOLE somewhere in order to achieve that .
also, JET* also has airbuses reg in SIN
I do know Aussie based cabin managers that work for JET* International , based in Australia. They say that sometimes they turn up at briefing and the entire cabin crew are Thai based crew on really long trips ( 13 days ); and they are at times rostered 3 Bali return trips . OUCH !!!
also, JET* also has airbuses reg in SIN
I do know Aussie based cabin managers that work for JET* International , based in Australia. They say that sometimes they turn up at briefing and the entire cabin crew are Thai based crew on really long trips ( 13 days ); and they are at times rostered 3 Bali return trips . OUCH !!!
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yes its interesting, but if they have found some loophole or grey area then that just all it is and the law needs to be changed to prevent this. Fair enough that Jetstar has its Singapore Registered aircraft crewed by Singaporeans, but an Australian reg aircraft crewed by imported staff… what a joke. I also have noted that you now never know what airline you’re getting when booking a flight, some flights I have taken have the JQ flight number but are run with a Singapore registered aircraft, So as a passenger how do you know what your booking? Are you booking with a company that is regulated by a Australia or Singapore, JetStar has done a very good job a blurring the lines. Singapore regulations are a lot less stringent then Australian. I feel that this may come down to a common law case of fraud
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Hi flightasia, hope all is well in Aisa.
Although I don't agree with foreign based crew on principle, what difference is there with the Jetstar situation with Australian registered aircraft compared with what Qantas mainline have been doing for 20 years now, first with NRT base, then BKK and AKL based crew and more recently LHR based crew.
They have been operating on Australian registered aircraft with Aussie pilots and sometimes the only Australian based cabin crew are the CSM and CSS?
On the flights with London based crew, there are often no Australian based crew.
Although I don't agree with foreign based crew on principle, what difference is there with the Jetstar situation with Australian registered aircraft compared with what Qantas mainline have been doing for 20 years now, first with NRT base, then BKK and AKL based crew and more recently LHR based crew.
They have been operating on Australian registered aircraft with Aussie pilots and sometimes the only Australian based cabin crew are the CSM and CSS?
On the flights with London based crew, there are often no Australian based crew.
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I am not familiar with what Qantas mainline is doing, but you have a point. But I feel that there may be some breach of law here when these crews (who don’t have Australian working rights) are operating on flights departing Australia. I think this issue needs to be researched extensively and if nothing else then the public should be make aware of this fact. Just when you think by flying Jetstar or maybe Qantas your supporting a Australia company and supporting Australian jobs and citizens of our great country you’re not.. You may as well fly AirAsia.
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My belief is that all Australia registered aircraft are bound by Australia law and in affect making it Australia territory, certainly when they are located within Australia waters. If anyone knows under what law foreign crew such as crew from Singapore airlines or others can clear Immigration without working permits or visa’s. Clearly this agreement is necessary for international airlines to operate but I doubt it was intended to be used to allow the hire of foreign crew on local airlines.
My belief is that all Australia registered aircraft are bound by Australia law and in affect making it Australia territory, certainly when they are located within Australia waters.
Your belief, like many beliefs, are exactly that, beliefs, and unrelated to the legal frameworks under which aircraft can be operated.
Australian registered aircraft, operating under an ICAO 83bis agreement between Australia and the state of Singapore, can be operated under the surveillance of CAAS.
CASA and any other Australian instrumentality cease to have power, beyond the power applicable under an Australian FAAOC for foreign airlines operating to and from Australia.
Whether tec. or cabin crew, the laws of Singapore (licensing etc.) would be the applicable laws.
This is what Qantas is increasingly doing, for a number of sound business reasons, not limited to crewing costs.
Tootle pip!!
PS: The aviation law of Singapore is ICAO compliant, without a raft of differences filed with ICAO, a la Australia.
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Flight Asia:
The reason they can clear immigration etc without work permits is they dont live in Australia.
As someone has mentioned already, Qantas has had overseas based cabin crew operating in and out of AUS for over 20 years now.
Take the QF AKL based Longhaul cabin crew, they pax or operate to Australia, do their trip 10 odd day trip and then pax or operate home again. They live and are paid in NZ employed on a local contract, but work to CASA rules as they are operating on VH registered aircraft.
Thai crew used to do the same, Japan crew still do (but mostly operate NRT-SYD-NRT).
It wouldn't be any different for SIN/ BKK based Jetstar crew, they live and are paid in their countries, operate to Australia, and then home via whatever routes their trips dictate.
I don't agree with it, but it would be no different for Jetstar than for Qantas.
The reason they can clear immigration etc without work permits is they dont live in Australia.
As someone has mentioned already, Qantas has had overseas based cabin crew operating in and out of AUS for over 20 years now.
Take the QF AKL based Longhaul cabin crew, they pax or operate to Australia, do their trip 10 odd day trip and then pax or operate home again. They live and are paid in NZ employed on a local contract, but work to CASA rules as they are operating on VH registered aircraft.
Thai crew used to do the same, Japan crew still do (but mostly operate NRT-SYD-NRT).
It wouldn't be any different for SIN/ BKK based Jetstar crew, they live and are paid in their countries, operate to Australia, and then home via whatever routes their trips dictate.
I don't agree with it, but it would be no different for Jetstar than for Qantas.
The difference now is that a certain oz airline appears to have been operating foreign CC on essentially domestic legs, under the guise of these being "tag" flights leading to other international sectors. The recent senate enquiry has apparently been made aware of this in some form and is due to report in May. So get ready for interesting reading when this report is made public. Ministerial embarrassment is generally not taken lightly!
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Roller Merlin
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Ministerial embarrassment is generally not taken lightly!
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Ministerial embarrassment is generally not taken lightly!
Information I have to hand suggests that a certain airline did not roster SG cc on the Tokyo flights last month as they had been doing cause they know they are breaking the law!!! Also BB told the enquiry that the SG cc do the tag flight, overnight in Melbourne and do the return tag flight the next day. Another demonstration of contempt towards the committee as the SG cc slip in a few Tokyo and return while they are here!!! BB you didn't tell senator o'brien that did you?
More definitely to follow
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yes it a complex issue but just because qantas may have been doing it for years does not make it correct. My personal view is if an airline wants to hire foreign crew then they should have a AOC in that country and register their aircraft in that country. It is very poor that the Australian government is supporting a australia airline to outsource their staff overseas. There is no lack of staff within australia that can carry out these duties, so the only reason Jetstar is doing this is to avoid paying australian salaries to staff and avoiding unions.
Singapore maybe ICAO compliant however ICAO rules are only a minimum requirement, so if we only want minimum requirements then fine we can drop our safety stands to that. One of the major differences with Singapore is they have far more lax standards on flight crew duty times. The other fact is Singapore is a very controlled country, so such things as media, works rights (salary and considerations). These controls and non transparency with government, make it a very desirable place for a company to hire its staff.
The fact is Australia companies are trying to compete with Asia, this is just not possible. Unless we start working, longer hours, for very low money...
Singapore maybe ICAO compliant however ICAO rules are only a minimum requirement, so if we only want minimum requirements then fine we can drop our safety stands to that. One of the major differences with Singapore is they have far more lax standards on flight crew duty times. The other fact is Singapore is a very controlled country, so such things as media, works rights (salary and considerations). These controls and non transparency with government, make it a very desirable place for a company to hire its staff.
The fact is Australia companies are trying to compete with Asia, this is just not possible. Unless we start working, longer hours, for very low money...
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There is a fundamental difference between what Jetstar are doing and what airlines all over the world do in terms of so-called 'Tag Flights'.
No other flight within any airline in the world - not even QANTAS, as far as I am aware undertakes 2 stops in the SAME COUNTRY whilst picking up additional passengers at the first port of entry using the overseas crew.
The immigration law is simple and unambiguous. In Australia you are required to pass through immigration at your first port of entry, once you have passed through immigration, unless you are in possession of a visa that confers the right to work (Crew Travel Authority does not confer this right) and undertake work you are an illegal worker. (immigration define work as that which normally attracts remuneration).
Crew Travel authorities are specific in they allow crew to work on flights into and out of Australia only and NOT within!!
What is significant is that compliance with immigration law is a personal responsibility and in addition to the organisation who employs you being fined for each and every individual breach for employing a person wthout a valid work visa, it is particularly the individual who will come off the worst with a potential for substantial fines, exclusion from Australia for a minimum of 3 years and potentionally a jail sentence.
Overseas Crew working between Australian ports and on International flights originating in Australia you should be concerned about this and you should take this up with your manager as soon as possible.
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The Kelpie
No other flight within any airline in the world - not even QANTAS, as far as I am aware undertakes 2 stops in the SAME COUNTRY whilst picking up additional passengers at the first port of entry using the overseas crew.
The immigration law is simple and unambiguous. In Australia you are required to pass through immigration at your first port of entry, once you have passed through immigration, unless you are in possession of a visa that confers the right to work (Crew Travel Authority does not confer this right) and undertake work you are an illegal worker. (immigration define work as that which normally attracts remuneration).
Crew Travel authorities are specific in they allow crew to work on flights into and out of Australia only and NOT within!!
What is significant is that compliance with immigration law is a personal responsibility and in addition to the organisation who employs you being fined for each and every individual breach for employing a person wthout a valid work visa, it is particularly the individual who will come off the worst with a potential for substantial fines, exclusion from Australia for a minimum of 3 years and potentionally a jail sentence.
Overseas Crew working between Australian ports and on International flights originating in Australia you should be concerned about this and you should take this up with your manager as soon as possible.
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The Kelpie
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flightasia: Funnily enough, SQ has its crew who do SIN-PER and SIN-TPE have 24hour night stops. QF's crew regularly do SIN-PER turnarounds, as do Jetstar for SIN-PER and SIN-TPE.
For some flights which only operate 3 times, a week, SQ's SIN-TPE crew have 2 nights in TPE, for a flight time of 4:20.
SQ used to have their crew do tunarounds for PER, but many crew turned up "sick" for those flghts because they were nearly 12-13 hours from time of reporting to work to time of leaving the arrival hall in SIN.
Maybe because of the high AUD, Singapore salaries and those of just about everywhere in the world would be lower than Australia at the moment. However, Singapore has the highest salaries in Asia outside Japan (if even), so it's not exactly a low-cost labour market, and is certainly far, far more expensive than any country in South East Asia.
You also said "My personal view is if an airline wants to hire foreign crew then they should have a AOC in that country and register their aircraft in that country."
Jetstar Asia has a Singapore AOC and registers their aircraft in Singapore with a 9V code. Jetstar Asia operates 3K flights SIN-AKL with SIN-based crew using the SIN AOC.
For some flights which only operate 3 times, a week, SQ's SIN-TPE crew have 2 nights in TPE, for a flight time of 4:20.
SQ used to have their crew do tunarounds for PER, but many crew turned up "sick" for those flghts because they were nearly 12-13 hours from time of reporting to work to time of leaving the arrival hall in SIN.
Maybe because of the high AUD, Singapore salaries and those of just about everywhere in the world would be lower than Australia at the moment. However, Singapore has the highest salaries in Asia outside Japan (if even), so it's not exactly a low-cost labour market, and is certainly far, far more expensive than any country in South East Asia.
You also said "My personal view is if an airline wants to hire foreign crew then they should have a AOC in that country and register their aircraft in that country."
Jetstar Asia has a Singapore AOC and registers their aircraft in Singapore with a 9V code. Jetstar Asia operates 3K flights SIN-AKL with SIN-based crew using the SIN AOC.
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The immigration law is simple and unambiguous. In Australia you are required to pass through immigration at your first port of entry
I believe same rules apply to crew.
UA crew do a domestic day return between SYD- MEL and CX crew will sometimes change at the final port of departure.
Last edited by Warragul; 29th Apr 2011 at 02:59. Reason: Incorrect details