Jetstar Singapore cabin crew
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Bagot,
From a Jetstar promo email:
The SIN-AKL-SIN flights operate with a 3K flight number but the airframes used are VH- registered A330s.
That is, Jetstar Asia (3K) use their SIN AOC but charter the capacity from JQ (Aus).
From a Jetstar promo email:
Singapore-Auckland flights are operated by Jetstar Airways (JQ) for Jetstar Asia (3K).
That is, Jetstar Asia (3K) use their SIN AOC but charter the capacity from JQ (Aus).
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DrPepz: You facts are not correct, qantas does not do PER-SIN-PER with out a stop over, this flight does not fall within flight and duty times for Australian standards. However in singapore this flight is fine, yes jetstar does do this but they operate it with there singapore registered aircraft, not the australia registered, they do this to avoid this law.
Also you said that jetstar has a AOC in singapore, yes it does but thats not what i am talking about with foreign crew, i am talking about the foreign crew that jetstar put on an australia registered aircraft (not the 9V).
Yes singapore may have the highest salaries in asia but there still paying a lot less then australian salaries, so whats your point? its still below australia standards on pay and conditions, and they can do what they want without clear transparency thanks to the singapore government, WHEN have you ever heard anything negative about singapore airlines from the singapore government or media?
If Jetstar wants to continue this practice then they should just register all there aircraft with foreign crew in singapore, then be upfront and honest about who your flying with a Singapore airline or an australia airline!!!
also I know that JQ is doing these tag flights, but my point is other flights even the non tag that say just depart PER for Bali or SYD Bali, are also illegal when these crews are departing on australian registered aircraft (after a stop over). It is a real gray and controversial area that jetstar has entered into, this is going to end in egg on their faces one way or another, the commit from a JQ flight attended that the current culture of jetstar is toxic in the end the company will burn its self from the inside.
Also you said that jetstar has a AOC in singapore, yes it does but thats not what i am talking about with foreign crew, i am talking about the foreign crew that jetstar put on an australia registered aircraft (not the 9V).
Yes singapore may have the highest salaries in asia but there still paying a lot less then australian salaries, so whats your point? its still below australia standards on pay and conditions, and they can do what they want without clear transparency thanks to the singapore government, WHEN have you ever heard anything negative about singapore airlines from the singapore government or media?
If Jetstar wants to continue this practice then they should just register all there aircraft with foreign crew in singapore, then be upfront and honest about who your flying with a Singapore airline or an australia airline!!!
also I know that JQ is doing these tag flights, but my point is other flights even the non tag that say just depart PER for Bali or SYD Bali, are also illegal when these crews are departing on australian registered aircraft (after a stop over). It is a real gray and controversial area that jetstar has entered into, this is going to end in egg on their faces one way or another, the commit from a JQ flight attended that the current culture of jetstar is toxic in the end the company will burn its self from the inside.
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flightasia: On the SIN-PER flights I have taken, (at least for the cabin crew) usually a couple of the crew would have done SYD-SIN, overnighted for one night, then fly SIN-PER-SIN turn around (QF72/QF71) then overnight, then fly SIN-SYD. I've also had crew who do SYD-PER-SIN at one shot. and SYD-PER and PER-SIN have the same flight times. They're on Aussie terms and conditions.
Jetstar's DRW base regularly do DRW-SGN turnarounds (and they're overnights) and they're on Australian terms and conditions -DRW-SGN is only 100 miles shorter than SIN-PER, so there would be virtually no difference in flight times.
SQ chooses to have their crew do nightstops in PER and TPE perhaps because they want their crew in tip top shape. Jetstar chooses not to, and some QF crew don't for the SIN-PER sector.
Oh plenty of negative press in the Singapore media on SQ. Every week there is a letter to The Straits Times on why SIA didn't treat someone properly, and as it is a national sport in Australia to bash QF, it is also a national sport in SIN to bash SQ.
The Jetstar VH aircraft that does PER-SIN is wetleased to Jetstar Asia for the day and usually does a SIN-BKK-SIN turnaround before returning to PER in the evening. So a VH aircraft is operating a SIN-BKK-SIN or SIN-PEN-SIN sector. Should Singaporeans be upset that an Australian registered aircraft is operating those sectors?
Jetstar's DRW base regularly do DRW-SGN turnarounds (and they're overnights) and they're on Australian terms and conditions -DRW-SGN is only 100 miles shorter than SIN-PER, so there would be virtually no difference in flight times.
SQ chooses to have their crew do nightstops in PER and TPE perhaps because they want their crew in tip top shape. Jetstar chooses not to, and some QF crew don't for the SIN-PER sector.
Oh plenty of negative press in the Singapore media on SQ. Every week there is a letter to The Straits Times on why SIA didn't treat someone properly, and as it is a national sport in Australia to bash QF, it is also a national sport in SIN to bash SQ.
The Jetstar VH aircraft that does PER-SIN is wetleased to Jetstar Asia for the day and usually does a SIN-BKK-SIN turnaround before returning to PER in the evening. So a VH aircraft is operating a SIN-BKK-SIN or SIN-PEN-SIN sector. Should Singaporeans be upset that an Australian registered aircraft is operating those sectors?
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you have got things very mixed up there DrPepz. The cabin crew of QF may do the PER SIN PER but the pilots dont. it is just outside australia standards.
DWN SIN DWN flights can full with-in our flying limits so this is fine.
Anyway putting all theses silly points aside my main points and facts are:
*Jetstar crew foreign crew on Australia Registered Aircraft.
*jester pays these crews less then australia standards
*these crews have no working rights in australia
*these crews overnight and are on duty the next day before clearing immigration making them illegal workers as the aircraft is australian registered and is fulls and considered as australia territory
*Any airline based in SIN is protected by singapore strict media gag laws and poor freedom of information laws
These are all facts of whats going on. My suggestion to anyone flying is to fly Virgin Blue.
DWN SIN DWN flights can full with-in our flying limits so this is fine.
Anyway putting all theses silly points aside my main points and facts are:
*Jetstar crew foreign crew on Australia Registered Aircraft.
*jester pays these crews less then australia standards
*these crews have no working rights in australia
*these crews overnight and are on duty the next day before clearing immigration making them illegal workers as the aircraft is australian registered and is fulls and considered as australia territory
*Any airline based in SIN is protected by singapore strict media gag laws and poor freedom of information laws
These are all facts of whats going on. My suggestion to anyone flying is to fly Virgin Blue.
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DrPepz, you seem offended by this? jetstar is a company that will do anything to make a bit more money, even sell out its own country and staff. Jetstar really uses its Jetstar name as an Australia airline, and buy doing this there misleading there passengers who fly on them, if the aircraft is operating under the SIN AOC then passengers should clearly know about this as there now flying with a singapore base airline who will have less rules or more flexible rules to australia.
Why is jetstar trying to mislead their passengers? why are they not clear and freely proud to be a Singapore based airlines??
DrPepz You must work for jetstar?? why dont you post your contract up on this site in the free name of transparency?
Why is jetstar trying to mislead their passengers? why are they not clear and freely proud to be a Singapore based airlines??
DrPepz You must work for jetstar?? why dont you post your contract up on this site in the free name of transparency?
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I do not work for Jetstar. I am a Singaporean who has previously worked for CAAS and Changi Airport.
If anyone should be pissed, it should be SQ. CAAS has basically allowed an Australian Airline to get a SIngapore AOC and compete with SQ in its own home terminal. SQ now has to share its air traffic rights with Jetstar and the QF Group. Through SIN's very liberal air traffic rights, QF through 3K's AOC can get neary complete 3rd and 4th freedom open skies to most of Asia, the Mid East and Europe.
These are rights SQ fought for decades, and QF now has them handed to them on a platter. When 3K starts ATH and FCO, they'll probably crush SQ's thrice weekly services to those cities.
So it's not like SQ's parent, the govt, has done them any favours. In fact, SQ's marketshare in SIN has fallen from 50% 10 years ago to 37% today, and the SIN govt has done them few favours.
However on balance the QF Jetstar SIN base is probably of net positive benefit to Singapore as a whole, while it is net negative for SQ. So thats why CAAS and Changi are quite happy with the arrangement.
Out of curiosity, are any of the Jetstar A330 Captains flying SIN-MEL and SIN-AKL Singaporeans? I think most of them are Australians posted to Singapore.
If anyone should be pissed, it should be SQ. CAAS has basically allowed an Australian Airline to get a SIngapore AOC and compete with SQ in its own home terminal. SQ now has to share its air traffic rights with Jetstar and the QF Group. Through SIN's very liberal air traffic rights, QF through 3K's AOC can get neary complete 3rd and 4th freedom open skies to most of Asia, the Mid East and Europe.
These are rights SQ fought for decades, and QF now has them handed to them on a platter. When 3K starts ATH and FCO, they'll probably crush SQ's thrice weekly services to those cities.
So it's not like SQ's parent, the govt, has done them any favours. In fact, SQ's marketshare in SIN has fallen from 50% 10 years ago to 37% today, and the SIN govt has done them few favours.
However on balance the QF Jetstar SIN base is probably of net positive benefit to Singapore as a whole, while it is net negative for SQ. So thats why CAAS and Changi are quite happy with the arrangement.
Out of curiosity, are any of the Jetstar A330 Captains flying SIN-MEL and SIN-AKL Singaporeans? I think most of them are Australians posted to Singapore.
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I took JQ23 from OOL to CNS and we had a lot of SIN crew only 1 Aussie as I asked where are they from. We had about 10 crew on the A330 for just 66 passengers. Would have been an easy flight for them to manage. All crew went on a mini bus to their hotel after we arrived so they were not continuing on to NRT.
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So if I open a restaurant can I bring in foreign workers for a couple of weeks at a time and say that they are really foreign residents and just transiting?
Dunno if it's true or not.
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DrPepz
The only reason J Asia has been given an Singaporean AOC is that 51% isowned by a singaporean. As minority shareholder J* thinks there are running the show but if it gets tricky the 51% singaporean owned will please the singapore government.
Tiger is a wholy owned subsidery of SQ and Australia is the only place in the world where a foreign airline can set up a subsidery.
Tiger is a wholy owned subsidery of SQ and Australia is the only place in the world where a foreign airline can set up a subsidery.
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On the subject of JQ cabin crew (slightly off thread)
I was chatting to a newbie JQ Casual F/A the other day. All the usual things we know like you have to pay for your accom and food during 4 weeks training in Melbourne then you are given $1,000 on passing ....fair enough
we've discussed this before !
BUT....the real stinker is a Casual JQ F/A has to be available to work for 22 days of the month. You only get 12 hours notice of a duty in that 22 days. How can you get a second / part time job This person has only been given 9 days work in 3 months.
How is this ethical? How can young people pay rent, but food, get a loan ?
Geeze-I thought QF crew were disengaged. This lady has only been with JQ for 4 months and already the venom is pouring out.
My advice= LEAVE NOW
I was chatting to a newbie JQ Casual F/A the other day. All the usual things we know like you have to pay for your accom and food during 4 weeks training in Melbourne then you are given $1,000 on passing ....fair enough
we've discussed this before !BUT....the real stinker is a Casual JQ F/A has to be available to work for 22 days of the month. You only get 12 hours notice of a duty in that 22 days. How can you get a second / part time job This person has only been given 9 days work in 3 months.
How is this ethical? How can young people pay rent, but food, get a loan ?
Geeze-I thought QF crew were disengaged. This lady has only been with JQ for 4 months and already the venom is pouring out.
My advice= LEAVE NOW
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another point that i have not mentioned yet is that fact that the large majority of these "singapore base crew" are not singapore citizens, there mainly from surrounding 3rd world countries. The majority of these crews speak very poor english. I just wonder if Jetstar did a risk assessment on this. It is clearly established by Geert Hofstede that your national culture really has a large impact on an organisations safety. All these national culture influences such as power distance, uncertainly avoidance, individualism vs collectivism, all these factor these 3rd world crew members will likely have an individual impact on the safety of the airline. Jetstar does not take safety seriously, tiger the same, airasia that same. The terrible fact of these low cost airlines is they are trying to increase there market share but the fact is its a false market in a lot of cases, your getting people that dont really need to fly flying on these airlines just because the ticket was cheap. if the ticket was not cheap then they would not have travelled at all. This is a false market driven by low prices and how sustainable is it?
And please not get me wrong, I totally love singapore and have really enjoyed living there over some years, its a great city with some great people.
And please not get me wrong, I totally love singapore and have really enjoyed living there over some years, its a great city with some great people.
No other flight within any airline in the world - not even QANTAS, as far as I am aware undertakes 2 stops in the SAME COUNTRY whilst picking up additional passengers at the first port of entry using the overseas crew.
Once again, not correct, if the foreign airline has fifth freedom ioghts between the domestic ports, all quite above board. For may years, Air India and BA (BOAC) carried domestic traffic between Sydney and Perth/Darwin variously.
Flightasia,
With all due respect, you are living in a fantasy of your own construction.
Tootle pip!!
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Leadsled
Thank you for your post. As far as I was aware Fifth Freedom Rights, also referred to as 'beyond rights', allows an airline to carry revenue traffic between foreign countries as a part of services connecting the airline's own country. It is the right to carry passengers from one's own country to a second country, and from that country to a third country (and so on).
An example of a fifth freedom flight is an Emirates flight originating in Dubai, then going on to Brisbane, Australia, and then from Brisbane to Auckland, New Zealand, where tickets can be sold on any or all sectors, and in the reverse direction if flights are offered.
Since when did the fifth freedom allow allow subsequent stops in the same country which is what I said in my earlier post??
I welcome any feedback as to why my understanding may not be correct in this case.
Cheers
The Kelpie
Thank you for your post. As far as I was aware Fifth Freedom Rights, also referred to as 'beyond rights', allows an airline to carry revenue traffic between foreign countries as a part of services connecting the airline's own country. It is the right to carry passengers from one's own country to a second country, and from that country to a third country (and so on).
An example of a fifth freedom flight is an Emirates flight originating in Dubai, then going on to Brisbane, Australia, and then from Brisbane to Auckland, New Zealand, where tickets can be sold on any or all sectors, and in the reverse direction if flights are offered.
Since when did the fifth freedom allow allow subsequent stops in the same country which is what I said in my earlier post??
I welcome any feedback as to why my understanding may not be correct in this case.
Cheers
The Kelpie
QueenBuzzzzz,
It's my understanding that here at Qantas we can not sell local seats just KLAX-KJFK and back, the passengers must have originated or be heading outside of the USA.
It's my understanding that here at Qantas we can not sell local seats just KLAX-KJFK and back, the passengers must have originated or be heading outside of the USA.
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It's an old story.
If QF carries them into LAX (or whereever in USA) QF can carry them on to JFK (or another port in USA) at a later date. QF cannot carry pax originating in LAX for JFK.
I'm not sure about staff or travel agent travel nowadays but in years past this travel has been allowed - I did it from SFO to JFK v.v. several times.
If QF carries them into LAX (or whereever in USA) QF can carry them on to JFK (or another port in USA) at a later date. QF cannot carry pax originating in LAX for JFK.
I'm not sure about staff or travel agent travel nowadays but in years past this travel has been allowed - I did it from SFO to JFK v.v. several times.
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jetstar is a company that will do anything to make a bit more money, even sell out its own country and staff.
if you don't like things as they are then walk with your feet.
