Australian Airline wages compilation
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Texan, I accepted a job at Vaustralia (now VAI) on the basis that they paid for my B777 type rating. I was paid from day 1 of training, too, as were all VA pilots. The CzFOs on the B777 at VAI get their type rating for free as well.For some people this somehow meant that we were "sell-outs who were lowering the industry terms and conditions" or part of "Volunteers Australia", as a lot of the VB flight crew referred to us at the time. Now the latest vacancies for positions on the B777 have swamped admin with applications-captains even applying for SFO positions! I have never paid for any of my heavy aircraft type ratings, either. Only VAA and Jetstar get their pilots to pay for their own training. If someone agrees to pay for a type rating in order to get a job, I don't think that they have the right to bleat about it later.
So anthill were you one of the 54kers? Were you one of the ones who applied when the job advert read 'this position offers limited career progression?'
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Huh? What are you on about? What's a "54ker"? There were no job advertisements that said "'this position offers limited career progression". Who would put out an advertisement that would say that? I prefer to deal with reality, son. You don't appear smart by making things up.
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So anthill were you one of the 54kers? Were you one of the ones who applied when the job advert read 'this position offers limited career progression?'
I remember when the fist positions were advertised for CFO positions and the salary was in $50k. That wage at the time almost half of what a QF S/O was paid. The big shiny jet syndrome evident and a lot of people were swept up in it. Luckily for them, the rest of us, and the rest of the industry this acceptance of well below the going rate for an S/O didn't back fire and VAI have survived and there has been a significant (debatable) wage increase. You CFO's who applied when salary was 50k rolled the dice, some would say you gotta be in it to win it. But if the outcome of your haste conculded with VAI not surviving and went the other way i wonder how all your colleagues would of viewed you eagerness then......
Count your lucky stars cos there are plenty out there who have not had anywhere near as much "luck" as you may have.
Anthill,
If memory serves, including super, the Czfo wage was 54k/yr. I also distinctly remember the job advert stating limited career progression when advertised. But if you are sure, then I must be making it all up. That condescending attitude suits you volunteer.
j3
http://www.pprune.org/pacific-genera...terview-2.html
If memory serves, including super, the Czfo wage was 54k/yr. I also distinctly remember the job advert stating limited career progression when advertised. But if you are sure, then I must be making it all up. That condescending attitude suits you volunteer.
j3
http://www.pprune.org/pacific-genera...terview-2.html
Last edited by j3pipercub; 23rd Sep 2013 at 13:24.
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Ah, I see. No, I applied for a different job. I never saw that add 
. You should be careful what you write here. You may offend those who joined Virgin as FOs on the 737 with pay-for-rating and on only $60k. Remember? When the captains only got $100k? Are you saying that they were "volunteers" too? Yes, good increases since then.
. You should be careful what you write here. You may offend those who joined Virgin as FOs on the 737 with pay-for-rating and on only $60k. Remember? When the captains only got $100k? Are you saying that they were "volunteers" too? Yes, good increases since then.
Pilots!
Definitely their own worst enemies, it is what it is I guess.
Quiet at the moment (understatement), but one day ironically, the short sighted antics of airline management that has contributed to the reduction in the participation in the profession (by a factor of 10!) may finally come back to bite them!
Crackup! The far too clever architects of this unfolding situation, just may end up saving pilots from themselves
Definitely their own worst enemies, it is what it is I guess.
Quiet at the moment (understatement), but one day ironically, the short sighted antics of airline management that has contributed to the reduction in the participation in the profession (by a factor of 10!) may finally come back to bite them!
Crackup! The far too clever architects of this unfolding situation, just may end up saving pilots from themselves
I also remember having a look at the application, which stated quite clearly that there would be no progression to the domestic fleet, effectively locking applicants in the back seat unless they already held the required experience for an upgrade.
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j3cub and Captbiggles,
I just had a read through the link that j3cub provided. It contains the FAQ letter (the one that many said didn't exist!). You guys are trying to say that anyone who accepted a CzFO position was foolish because, as you say : 'this position offers limited career progression" . You are trying to say that CzFOs would have been stuck in a dead end with very little chance for advancement.
That's not what the FAQ paper (it's not an add!) actually says. You have selectively quoted words and failed to grasp the context. What is written is revealing as to where and how you are wrong:
Very clearly, there was the intent for a career path for CzFOs. The caveat being that in the start up phase, there would be not much seat swapping.
I'm not sure whether you have genuinely mis-interpreted the written words or if you are being a mischief maker. 2 things are clear: 1) You and a few other have a bee in your bonnet about CzFOs and 2) It would be a sensible thing to include a comprehension assessment at intake for pilot candidates, because some people out there simply can't understand, or interpret, written English.
I just had a read through the link that j3cub provided. It contains the FAQ letter (the one that many said didn't exist!). You guys are trying to say that anyone who accepted a CzFO position was foolish because, as you say : 'this position offers limited career progression" . You are trying to say that CzFOs would have been stuck in a dead end with very little chance for advancement.
That's not what the FAQ paper (it's not an add!) actually says. You have selectively quoted words and failed to grasp the context. What is written is revealing as to where and how you are wrong:
CRFO CAREER OPPORTUNITIES
At our initial start up there will be
limited ability to progress from Cruise Relief First Officer to Senior First
Officer; however, Cruise Relief First Officer's will have the opportunity to
expand their experience within the Virgin Blue group fleet (B737, Embraer). V
Australia's preferred option is to progress flight crew vertically, but should
this not be possible after 2 - 3 years, the Cruise Relief First Officer may
elect to apply for a position with Virgin Blue as First Officer, through the
normal Virgin Blue application process. V Australia will assist in facilitating
this process, and credit will be given for the applicant's service with V
Australia. In a similar fashion, should that person, after 2 -3 years with
Virgin Blue wish to return to V Australia as a Senior First Officer, he/she will
need to apply for the position through the normal internal process. Once again,
credit will be given for the applicant's previous service with V Australia as
Cruise Relief First Officer.
At our initial start up there will be
limited ability to progress from Cruise Relief First Officer to Senior First
Officer; however, Cruise Relief First Officer's will have the opportunity to
expand their experience within the Virgin Blue group fleet (B737, Embraer). V
Australia's preferred option is to progress flight crew vertically, but should
this not be possible after 2 - 3 years, the Cruise Relief First Officer may
elect to apply for a position with Virgin Blue as First Officer, through the
normal Virgin Blue application process. V Australia will assist in facilitating
this process, and credit will be given for the applicant's service with V
Australia. In a similar fashion, should that person, after 2 -3 years with
Virgin Blue wish to return to V Australia as a Senior First Officer, he/she will
need to apply for the position through the normal internal process. Once again,
credit will be given for the applicant's previous service with V Australia as
Cruise Relief First Officer.
Very clearly, there was the intent for a career path for CzFOs. The caveat being that in the start up phase, there would be not much seat swapping.
I'm not sure whether you have genuinely mis-interpreted the written words or if you are being a mischief maker. 2 things are clear: 1) You and a few other have a bee in your bonnet about CzFOs and 2) It would be a sensible thing to include a comprehension assessment at intake for pilot candidates, because some people out there simply can't understand, or interpret, written English.
Anthill, as someone who is accusing people of misinterpreting the information, you are missing one vital piece from the quote
my bolding
The normal Virgin Blue application process means that the CRFO's were intended to be treated the same as externals - i.e. NO career path other than that offered to everyone else.
The Company has improved things considerably since this was the case and now there is an internal process, however it certainly was not the original intent.
but should
this not be possible after 2 - 3 years, the Cruise Relief First Officer may
elect to apply for a position with Virgin Blue as First Officer, through the
normal Virgin Blue application process. V Australia will assist in facilitating
this process, and credit will be given for the applicant's service with V
Australia.
this not be possible after 2 - 3 years, the Cruise Relief First Officer may
elect to apply for a position with Virgin Blue as First Officer, through the
normal Virgin Blue application process. V Australia will assist in facilitating
this process, and credit will be given for the applicant's service with V
Australia.
The normal Virgin Blue application process means that the CRFO's were intended to be treated the same as externals - i.e. NO career path other than that offered to everyone else.
The Company has improved things considerably since this was the case and now there is an internal process, however it certainly was not the original intent.
Anthil,
"May elect to apply for a Position with Virgin Blue (sic) through the normal application process". And if you were unsuccessful? Where to then? Stay in the back seat?
Bee in my bonnet. Hmmm. Yeah I'm just over reacting. 54k (with super) and no guarantee of ever leaving that seat, you're right, I need to take English classes.
j3
"May elect to apply for a Position with Virgin Blue (sic) through the normal application process". And if you were unsuccessful? Where to then? Stay in the back seat?
Bee in my bonnet. Hmmm. Yeah I'm just over reacting. 54k (with super) and no guarantee of ever leaving that seat, you're right, I need to take English classes.
j3
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V Australia will assist in facilitating
this process, and credit
will be given for the applicant's service with V Australia.
will be given for the applicant's service with V Australia.
The normal Virgin Blue application process means that the CRFO's were intended
to be treated the same as externals - i.e. NO career path other than that
offered to everyone else
to be treated the same as externals - i.e. NO career path other than that
offered to everyone else
Cruise Relief First Officer's will have the opportunity to
expand their experience within the Virgin Blue group fleet (B737, Embraer). V Australia's preferred option is to progress flight crew vertically, but should
this not be possible after 2 - 3 years, the Cruise Relief First Officer may
elect to apply for a position with Virgin Blue as First Officer, through the
normal Virgin Blue application process.
I've copied the sentence that you referred to in its entirety, j3cub. Again. If only 1/3rd of the words written register on your brain, I cannot help you any further.
Last edited by Anthill; 30th Sep 2013 at 11:59.
Anthill, trust me when I tell you that the original intention was to not provide a career path into the the narrow body domestic fleet, there was also a great reluctance to have domestic guys go to the 777 operation, but there was an acceptance that if someone did make the transition then the previous service would be recognised for long service leave, sick and annual leave etc.
If the original executive GM had had his way none of the virgin blue guys would have been able to come over and pollute the "culture" of V.
It was very much set up as a separate operation in the early days.
To everyone's credit that has changed, but it certainly was not the way it was intended to operate.
If the original executive GM had had his way none of the virgin blue guys would have been able to come over and pollute the "culture" of V.
It was very much set up as a separate operation in the early days.
To everyone's credit that has changed, but it certainly was not the way it was intended to operate.
Last edited by Snakecharma; 30th Sep 2013 at 12:19.