Australian Airline wages compilation
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After Joyce has so earnestly supported the Carbon Tax he will be looking for a little quid pro quo.
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Chadzat few changes on mine COBHAM i think was wrong see what you think..
Worth a comparison as I had updated a few yesterday. Feel free to copy links to the EBA's so people can look for themselves.
Worth a comparison as I had updated a few yesterday. Feel free to copy links to the EBA's so people can look for themselves.
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Mr Hat,
The COBHAM figures you provide distort the case a little for the following reasons.
All the figures are 4 yrs old and have to be adjusted by 4 x CPI increases.
Quoting the year one figures for an F/O works OK. I'm not sure what the last 4 yrs of CPI's are, but as an example if they were all 3% then F/O starts at $70k. Nno one starts as a Captain in year one. I don't think anyone is actually on less that year 4 as a Captain, so that's $144,000 until June at which time it increases again, probably about $138,000 if you make Captain in 3 yrs.
So it depends on whether you want to paint a worst case scenario or what people can realistically expect. Problematic!
The COBHAM figures you provide distort the case a little for the following reasons.
All the figures are 4 yrs old and have to be adjusted by 4 x CPI increases.
Quoting the year one figures for an F/O works OK. I'm not sure what the last 4 yrs of CPI's are, but as an example if they were all 3% then F/O starts at $70k. Nno one starts as a Captain in year one. I don't think anyone is actually on less that year 4 as a Captain, so that's $144,000 until June at which time it increases again, probably about $138,000 if you make Captain in 3 yrs.
So it depends on whether you want to paint a worst case scenario or what people can realistically expect. Problematic!
Thread Starter
Skynews, that may be the case, but all of the other company Captain figures are 1st year. Obviously you are highly unlikely to be a 1st year captain at most places, but its apples with apples. Can you provide some accurate 1st year Cobham figures?
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Understood Skynews. I'm not sure which is the right path as I haven't read the ebas just glanced at the figures quickly as originally it was only intended as a quick snapshot from a job searcher. I suspect however that most of them have the cpi adjustment? Hence we would have to adjust vb's etc? I'm not sure.
What I don't want is to discourage the likes of yourself from speaking up or contributing because it is the shear numbers on PPRuNe that will make a more comprehensive set of figures.
Ultimately wanabees website would be the ultimate tool for the jobseeker. Had I thought of it all those years ago I would have done it as a uni project.
What I don't want is to discourage the likes of yourself from speaking up or contributing because it is the shear numbers on PPRuNe that will make a more comprehensive set of figures.
Ultimately wanabees website would be the ultimate tool for the jobseeker. Had I thought of it all those years ago I would have done it as a uni project.
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It has to be apples to apples, however there is no point using figures that are not truly representative of reality.
For example, not 1 Cobham Captain has ever been paid year 1 figures, and I doubt they ever will, so to indicate the captains salary is $105k is really misleading, as it is if the other companies are not truly representative.
My suggestion is that some one, I will with my minimal computer skills if required, draw up a table and publish the basics for each company with enough detail to paint a clear picture.
I will start with Cobham as I know those details.
For example, not 1 Cobham Captain has ever been paid year 1 figures, and I doubt they ever will, so to indicate the captains salary is $105k is really misleading, as it is if the other companies are not truly representative.
My suggestion is that some one, I will with my minimal computer skills if required, draw up a table and publish the basics for each company with enough detail to paint a clear picture.
I will start with Cobham as I know those details.
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Skynews,
AFAIK, Cobham DOES NOT have a year of service for Command Pay; that is a Year 10 Capt earns exactly the same as a Year 4 Capt or IF and it would be a big IF, the need for DECs was there, the first year Capts pay would still be the same. I may be wrong but I think it is only the F/O pay that is indexed by the years of service. Happy to be corrected if this is not the case though.
AFAIK, Cobham DOES NOT have a year of service for Command Pay; that is a Year 10 Capt earns exactly the same as a Year 4 Capt or IF and it would be a big IF, the need for DECs was there, the first year Capts pay would still be the same. I may be wrong but I think it is only the F/O pay that is indexed by the years of service. Happy to be corrected if this is not the case though.
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Normasars,
you may stand corrected.
Captains and F/O's employed under the National Jet Pilots Collective Agreement are indexed by years of service and thats on all types including your DHC8.
The index is dependant on years of service within the company, not on type or rank. So a if a pilots starts and is promoted to Captain within a couple of years he certainly is on an indexed scale.
If your employed on another contract, NJOS/Jetex/Special Mission then thats a different issue and you can't transfer to the 717 without resigning anyway. Different employment conditions, different seniority etc.
By itself this means nothing, it would be interesting to have other companies in a similar format. There are obviously lots of factors that affect life style that are impossible to indicate via numbers and tables BUT..........
Happy to put other companies on if some one can offer the info.
These numbers are my calculations, there may be some minor errors.
http://www.fwa.gov.au/documents/agre...N084458480.pdf
These amounts DO NOT include super or bonuses.
you may stand corrected.
Captains and F/O's employed under the National Jet Pilots Collective Agreement are indexed by years of service and thats on all types including your DHC8.
The index is dependant on years of service within the company, not on type or rank. So a if a pilots starts and is promoted to Captain within a couple of years he certainly is on an indexed scale.
If your employed on another contract, NJOS/Jetex/Special Mission then thats a different issue and you can't transfer to the 717 without resigning anyway. Different employment conditions, different seniority etc.
By itself this means nothing, it would be interesting to have other companies in a similar format. There are obviously lots of factors that affect life style that are impossible to indicate via numbers and tables BUT..........
Happy to put other companies on if some one can offer the info.
These numbers are my calculations, there may be some minor errors.
http://www.fwa.gov.au/documents/agre...N084458480.pdf
These amounts DO NOT include super or bonuses.
Last edited by Skynews; 13th Apr 2011 at 02:43.
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A big job, BUT IF one person from every company was prepared to put the info together and we decide on a basic format, it wouldnt be too much individually and as you say incredibaly useful and not just for newbies.
I would love to know where I sit.
Took me 5 mins
I would love to know where I sit.
Took me 5 mins
Work is progressing, I hope to have the basic bits up and running by May to get people to enter data and start providing feedback.
Current thinking of structure is as follows:
Suggestions / Feedback welcome
Note: only concentrating on the wage part currently, things like leave entitlements and such will follow after the first version is out and working.
This is just a small pet project and will hopefully be able to dedicate some more time after I finish my last ATPL!
Current thinking of structure is as follows:
Code:
Operator Type Salaried Rank (Capt. Co. So) Year x Hourly Rate Yearly$ Average Hrs Flown (Day, Month, Year) Contract Rank (Capt. Co. So) Hourly Rate Yearly$ Average Hrs Flown (Day, Month, Year) Extras (Per Diems, OT, Sector, Accom, Etc)
Note: only concentrating on the wage part currently, things like leave entitlements and such will follow after the first version is out and working.
This is just a small pet project and will hopefully be able to dedicate some more time after I finish my last ATPL!
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CX year 4 f/0 a330 = 180k pa
mate who is a 6yr f/o = 204pa (plus O/T)
mate who is a 6yr f/o = 204pa (plus O/T)
204K to poison your family...is that enough ?Pay the Oz tax realising that you actually get something other than the privelege to breathe coal dust, heavy metals and particulate matter for it
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Some other ones might be:
Productivity Cut in hour and rate
Min rest
Super
Death Cover
LOLI
Annual Leave
Carers Leve
Staff Travel Y/N
Salary Sacrifice
Not to load you up wannabe but if you are going to do a spreadsheet formula style you might as well do the hours in 10 hour increments so blokes can see what they would be making if they worked for x.
I think its not only useful for the wanabee/change jobs but also for the eba negotiating time. You can quickly see where you are at
Productivity Cut in hour and rate
Min rest
Super
Death Cover
LOLI
Annual Leave
Carers Leve
Staff Travel Y/N
Salary Sacrifice
Not to load you up wannabe
but if you are going to do a spreadsheet formula style you might as well do the hours in 10 hour increments so blokes can see what they would be making if they worked for x.I think its not only useful for the wanabee/change jobs but also for the eba negotiating time. You can quickly see where you are at
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If anyone really believes that you get good service for the tax you pay in Aus you really need to live out side aus for a while to realise how delusional that idea truly is.
I dont live in HK but I am an expat and my lifestyle has improved no end since leaving Australia, and my mates in HK have all found a similar situation.
when you take into account the tax rate etc, just converting the currency doesnt give a fair comparison. to save as much as I am now in Aus I would have to be on $400K a year!
204K AUD in HK is prob similar to earning 350K in aus!
I dont live in HK but I am an expat and my lifestyle has improved no end since leaving Australia, and my mates in HK have all found a similar situation.
when you take into account the tax rate etc, just converting the currency doesnt give a fair comparison. to save as much as I am now in Aus I would have to be on $400K a year!
204K AUD in HK is prob similar to earning 350K in aus!
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No worries " living the deluded life " I have lived in HK for over 4 years , HK has just been awarded 3rd most expensive city in the world for expats. I can't speak for other expat cities but here in good old smog central the air on a good day is 6 times the WHO limit on a bad day 15 times, and the health of my co-workers and their families backs that up.
Tax in Oz is not 50% as the haters would like to believe, on 200K it is actually just over 30%. In HK as well as smog you enjoy population density in excess of 10 times that of Australia, public school system for non-locals is a joke and CX/KA only pay a % of private school, public medical for non-locals is good for nothing other than an emergency, there is no first home buyers scheme, help for families ( other than a minute tax break ) etc, and things like local council funded pools, parks etc ? forget it.
BTW I never said good service from Aust tax, because nowhere in the world do you get your moneys worth from the Govt.
Actually you have that ar5e about, you would need to be earning 350KAUD in HK to come close to the same life you'd enjoy in Oz on 204K,the facts are HK is 3rd most expensive city in the world, beer is cheap which is great if your family drink a lot of beer, virtually everything else is not.
And anyway, the topic is " Australian Airline wages compilation, so my point was comparing an overseas airline wage and living o/s is not apples to apples.
I'm curious to know where you earn 250K a year after tax ? ( 400K in Oz is 250 net )
Sounds to me you are a young single bloke that has only recently left Oz, correct me if I'm wrong ?
Tax in Oz is not 50% as the haters would like to believe, on 200K it is actually just over 30%. In HK as well as smog you enjoy population density in excess of 10 times that of Australia, public school system for non-locals is a joke and CX/KA only pay a % of private school, public medical for non-locals is good for nothing other than an emergency, there is no first home buyers scheme, help for families ( other than a minute tax break ) etc, and things like local council funded pools, parks etc ? forget it.
BTW I never said good service from Aust tax, because nowhere in the world do you get your moneys worth from the Govt.
204K AUD in HK is prob similar to earning 350K in aus!
And anyway, the topic is " Australian Airline wages compilation, so my point was comparing an overseas airline wage and living o/s is not apples to apples.
when you take into account the tax rate etc, just converting the currency doesnt give a fair comparison. to save as much as I am now in Aus I would have to be on $400K a year!
Sounds to me you are a young single bloke that has only recently left Oz, correct me if I'm wrong ?
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Sorry HKfooey, I over estimated, only cleared 230 so I guess I did exaggerate a little.
I am not single, I have a wife, 1 bub and my trusty dog.
I have only been out of aus for 2 years although it took me about 5 years of research before I found the gig I have now, which is why I left. I won't tell you exactly where I am based but I will mention airlines certainly aren't the place to make money anymore especially in aus.
The Asian region is definitely the place to work and Aus could be a good retirement village when I get sick of the most enjoyable life experience I have had. Even my wife is happy!
I am not single, I have a wife, 1 bub and my trusty dog.
I have only been out of aus for 2 years although it took me about 5 years of research before I found the gig I have now, which is why I left. I won't tell you exactly where I am based but I will mention airlines certainly aren't the place to make money anymore especially in aus.
The Asian region is definitely the place to work and Aus could be a good retirement village when I get sick of the most enjoyable life experience I have had. Even my wife is happy!
