Australian Airline wages compilation

[ElZilcho]

Originally Posted by KRviator

You don't...Yet...But where are the Navigators, Radio Operators, FE's? All "Essential" roles in aviation right up until they weren't. Same as Guards on trains, or the Coey there too. Some jurisdictions still have them, a lot don't. Single-Pilot airliners are not as far away as you would think, after-all what is the fundamental difference in operating a single-pilot business jet vs a single-pilot certified airliner? In RPT roles, perhaps where the passengers would naturally baulk at it, but freighters? I'd be surprised if they aren't around by the end of the decade, and certainly by 2040.

You only have to look at Airbus with their demonstrator A350, Garmin with their certified Auto-return system for things like the CirrusJet, or TBM to see the advancements in technology are there to allow it to happen. When regulators will approve it is the only remaining question...

Single Pilot Cruise isn't far off I agree. But that's a relatively small step from where we are right now, compared to the mammoth leap to Single Pilot ops entirely.

-edit-

While I'm here, I'll update the Air NZ (ALPA) rates.
You start earning notional Command Pay after 6 years, so many A320 Captains will be on less than Year 12 but would be very rare on the Widebody's (takes 18 years to reach Year 12 Command Pay and ~24 years average to a WB Command).
Incentive Pay kicks in above 60hrs per roster with step increases at 75 and 90hrs.

Second Officer:

• Year 1: $114,528
• Year 8: $146,500

A320 First Officer:

• Year 1: $128,202
• Year 8: $163,991

B787-9 First Officer (These should increase with deliveries of the -10's)

• Year 1: $152,656
• Year 8: $195,271

B777-300 First Officer (Formerly a blended rate between the -300 and -200's)

• Year 1:$178,764
• Year 8: $228,668

A320 Captain:

• Year 1: $199,397
• Year 12: $255,637

Boeing 787 Captain:

• Year 12: $304,398

Boeing 777-300 Captain:

• Year 12: $356,458

[jasonrf]

Does anyone know the current wage situation with Qantas etc...with their new EBAs?

[Icarus2001]

So is that in NZD?

[RustyFlyerBoy]

Express Rates

Any idea about A321 rates at Express Freighters?

[RustyFlyerBoy]

Am I understanding this right???

From the first post on this thread back in April 2011 the following appears:Qantaslink
Q400 Captain - $92,863
Q400 F/O - $60,361
From the most recent long list posted Jan 2019, this appears:

Eastern / Sunnies / Qantaslink
Q400 Captain - $92,863
Q400 F/O - $60,361

So these guys (among many others - just chosen them as an example) haven't seen an increase since 2011? Are they getting anything else besides this 'headline figure'?

[C441]

Originally Posted by RustyFlyerBoy

Am I understanding this right???

No.
A quick look at the Fairwork website will give you an idea what any of the airline EA's are paying. Here's the Sunnie's 2019 Agreement.
Skip down to part 4 and have a look at the table there.

[Chocks Away]

Yes Rusty C441 gave you the right link.
This List is meant to operate as a type of self-help system for everyone.
If your airline isn't there or has old data, go ahead and add yours too (even if it's just your fleet) but do it to the whole list i.e. go back to the last full list and Copy it and paste it with your additions.
Simples.
Happy Landings

[Chadzat]

I started this thread 11 years ago (hard to believe!) and have long since given up doing the leg work to update based on new FWC documents.

As Chocks Away said - if people are inclined to then they can update with accurate figures based on their eba/airline.

as an aside - it is interesting to see how far some pilot groups have come in advancing their terms in 11 years, and some have stagnated and some have nearly returned to early ‘teens levels!

[davidclarke]

Originally Posted by RustyFlyerBoy

Any idea about A321 rates at Express Freighters?

From Jan 2023

Captain $196,946

FO $127,523

This may not be exact but it’s what I calculated based on the new 3% wage policy and includes the 5% bonus that is guaranteed.

[bb_turn]

Its pretty embarrassing right....

[PoppaJo]

Some of these A320 loco’s up in Asia are starting to creep up on some of these numbers.

A Level 3-5 Air Asia FO is right behind and a Captain is sitting at those numbers. Back in the day they sat about 40% behind.

[davidclarke]

Originally Posted by bb_turn

Its pretty embarrassing right....

It’s embarrassingly embarrassing.

[Transition Layer]

And that’s after a recent pay rise!

Plus EFA is mostly horrible back of the clock, 2 Pilot, with occasional hotel day rest etc. Gotta be worth an extra 20% just for those factors alone

[Jbrownie]

Can we look at getting a full update on all these figures please?

[big buddah]

2021 end of year US data.
2022 coming soon!

[DropYourSocks]

Originally Posted by big buddah

2021 end of year US data.
2022 coming soon!

For those playing along at home, any of the above numbers you see from someone with 4-5 years seniority in their company, those numbers are likely pretty standard for most at that level to achieve. The ridiculously big numbers you see are outliers, and require serious effort (and seniority) to game their system to make it work. Not impossible, but improbable for most to achieve.

Big Buddah, nice work on collating that data. I'm looking forward to seeing how 2022 panned out.

[get_involved]

Originally Posted by DropYourSocks

For those playing along at home, any of the above numbers you see from someone with 4-5 years seniority in their company, those numbers are likely pretty standard for most at that level to achieve. The ridiculously big numbers you see are outliers, and require serious effort (and seniority) to game their system to make it work. Not impossible, but improbable for most to achieve.

Big Buddah, nice work on collating that data. I'm looking forward to seeing how 2022 panned out.

The data Big Buddah posted above was collected through voluntary unchecked submissions on airlinepilotcentral. It's all "on your honor" and people here in the US just feel the need to brag to strangers on the web. Sad. Generally speaking, take the hourly rate and multiply by 1000. That'll give you a ballpark number on what pilots make at their respective airline, fleet and seat. And then there are those who hustle hard, work the system and exploit loopholes in the working contract and can earn 1500-2000x their hourly rate in a year. I hustled in 2022 and earned about 1560x my hourly rate.

Assuming the Legacy carriers are able to sign new contracts with their pilots the 2022 numbers will probably look tame compared to the 2023 numbers coming out in a year. Retro/signing bonuses getting paid out, new higher hourly rates and profit sharing payouts. Could be a wild next 12-24 months for the pilots here in the US.

[umop apisdn]

Originally Posted by get_involved

and people here in the US just feel the need to brag to strangers on the web. Sad.

It literally comes from a thread asking people what they make. The intent as I see it is designed to be comparative against other airlines, and to include what kind of quality of life goes along with x amount of money.

America and Americans have their problems for sure, but to post on an Australian pilot forum that Americans have humility issues is a special kind of special.

There is a reason why we have the Austranaut reputation all over the world.

[get_involved]

Originally Posted by umop apisdn

It literally comes from a thread asking people what they make. The intent as I see it is designed to be comparative against other airlines, and to include what kind of quality of life goes along with x amount of money.

Right. Coming to these boards and comparing salaries, hourly rates, QOL provisions, and benefits between pilots of different airlines help us as a whole to work toward better treatment and pay in the workplace.

But the "loudest voices in the room," a percentage of pilots who take the time to log in and type in their stats/share data on these boards, I don't think it provides a true representative sample of what a person can reasonably expect at xyz company. I don't suspect there is too much falsifying of numbers, but I do take the numbers posted on the airline pilot forums 2022 annual salary thread (where the original 2021 salary spreadsheet of data referenced above was taken from) with a grain of salt. It's hard to look at some posts and not suspect it's a "Look how little I worked for how much pay!" brag.

As an American, this is the only source I've found on the web where Oz/NZ pilot pay rates/salaries are posted for public viewing. I find it fascinating and enjoy coming back occasionally to see how my colleagues across the pacific are doing. Looking forward to the EOY numbers for 2022, if that happens. Cheers.