Australian Airline wages compilation
Makes me glad I gave it away. 
By comparison, as a Pilbara train driver - for one of the lower paying companies of the 4 up there, mind you - I have the option of one of the following gross salaries depending on roster:
2 weeks on / 4 weeks off: $114,000
2 weeks on / 2 weeks off: $165,000
2 weeks on / 1 week off: $232,500
Any production and/or safety bonuses are additional to the above and 9.5% super is paid on top of both gross & bonuses. You're also entitled to 12 weeks personal leave in any 12 month period (though that includes RDO's, so if you're 2/4 for example, it's basically two complete roster periods).
Most FIFO blokes are on 2/2, a few - including me - prioritize family time and have gone 2/4 . A Residential employee on an identical base rate working an even time (4 days on / 4 days off) roster would be on $180K gross, given the different allowances.
By comparison, as a Pilbara train driver - for one of the lower paying companies of the 4 up there, mind you - I have the option of one of the following gross salaries depending on roster:
2 weeks on / 4 weeks off: $114,000
2 weeks on / 2 weeks off: $165,000
2 weeks on / 1 week off: $232,500
Any production and/or safety bonuses are additional to the above and 9.5% super is paid on top of both gross & bonuses. You're also entitled to 12 weeks personal leave in any 12 month period (though that includes RDO's, so if you're 2/4 for example, it's basically two complete roster periods).
Most FIFO blokes are on 2/2, a few - including me - prioritize family time and have gone 2/4 . A Residential employee on an identical base rate working an even time (4 days on / 4 days off) roster would be on $180K gross, given the different allowances.
Last edited by turbantime; 4th Mar 2022 at 10:46.
Makes me glad I gave it away.
By comparison, as a Pilbara train driver - for one of the lower paying companies of the 4 up there, mind you - I have the option of one of the following gross salaries depending on roster:
2 weeks on / 4 weeks off: $114,000
2 weeks on / 2 weeks off: $165,000
2 weeks on / 1 week off: $232,500
Any production and/or safety bonuses are additional to the above and 9.5% super is paid on top of both gross & bonuses. You're also entitled to 12 weeks personal leave in any 12 month period (though that includes RDO's, so if you're 2/4 for example, it's basically two complete roster periods).
Most FIFO blokes are on 2/2, a few - including me - prioritize family time and have gone 2/4 . A Residential employee on an identical base rate working an even time (4 days on / 4 days off) roster would be on $180K gross, given the different allowances.
By comparison, as a Pilbara train driver - for one of the lower paying companies of the 4 up there, mind you - I have the option of one of the following gross salaries depending on roster:
2 weeks on / 4 weeks off: $114,000
2 weeks on / 2 weeks off: $165,000
2 weeks on / 1 week off: $232,500
Any production and/or safety bonuses are additional to the above and 9.5% super is paid on top of both gross & bonuses. You're also entitled to 12 weeks personal leave in any 12 month period (though that includes RDO's, so if you're 2/4 for example, it's basically two complete roster periods).
Most FIFO blokes are on 2/2, a few - including me - prioritize family time and have gone 2/4 . A Residential employee on an identical base rate working an even time (4 days on / 4 days off) roster would be on $180K gross, given the different allowances.
What I have tried to to is give a factual and potentially reasonable alternative career option should someone have had a gutful of CAsA, sim checks and being told to take your shoes and belt off going through security only to then have a crash axe and be in control of a 60-tonne weapon loaded with 10 tonnes of flammable liquid at their disposal as soon as they step on board - and that option being something that can offer a more-than-livable salary with the benefit of only working 6 months of the year and with a roster that you can look at 2,5,8 years out and know if you're working your kids birthday or NYE...
Originally Posted by brokenagain
Everyone I know who managed to get a job on the trains during covid is back flying now, even with the pay cut.
Originally Posted by turbantime
No wonder your industry is under threat. Trains would have to be of the easiest machines to automate.
Originally Posted by Mr Proach
How many of you are members of the union?
I did a search but was unsuccessful in trying to gather information with regards to payscales for the Cobham E190 operation.
Could someone be kind enough and share this information and possibly an example of a typical roster?
TIA.
Could someone be kind enough and share this information and possibly an example of a typical roster?
TIA.
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Go to the FWC website and search for National Jet Pilots agreement. Cobham rebranded NJS and the agreement stayed the same with a cover letter.
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Not really. No more so than the broken record of pilots here whining about the "race to the bottom", but failing to actually do anything about it. Google reports there's 6,500 individual posts on 'Prune with that phrase and you think I'm the one obsessed with spruiking something?
What I have tried to to is give a factual and potentially reasonable alternative career option should someone have had a gutful of CAsA, sim checks and being told to take your shoes and belt off going through security only to then have a crash axe and be in control of a 60-tonne weapon loaded with 10 tonnes of flammable liquid at their disposal as soon as they step on board - and that option being something that can offer a more-than-livable salary with the benefit of only working 6 months of the year and with a roster that you can look at 2,5,8 years out and know if you're working your kids birthday or NYE...
Given it takes anywhere from 18 months to three years to qualify as a Driver in your own right depending who you work for, yet the Covid disruptions have been with us for barely two, notwithstanding most every trainee Driver's role having hundreds if not a thousand or more applications, I'm calling bollocks on that claim.
Suburban & highspeed passenger no argument there. It's been done worldwide including the Sydney Metro Freight? Not a chance. The RoI isn't there. Rio Tinto did do it - after spending several billion dollars to do so, and have now found they cannot get qualified Driver's to work there because of their robots. On the other hand BHP is currently recruiting 200 trainee Driver's for their Pilbara operation. Aurizon recently took on 150 Qualified Driver's for their WA operation and Sydney Trains has recently undertaken a bulk trainee intake for both Suburban and Intercity working. Not exactly what I'd call under threat...
On the east coast, I believe it was around 85-90%, in the Pilbara not as many, perhaps 30-35% but that is rapidly increasing with the CFMEU making inroads and the likes of Rio & BHP negotiating EBA's.
What I have tried to to is give a factual and potentially reasonable alternative career option should someone have had a gutful of CAsA, sim checks and being told to take your shoes and belt off going through security only to then have a crash axe and be in control of a 60-tonne weapon loaded with 10 tonnes of flammable liquid at their disposal as soon as they step on board - and that option being something that can offer a more-than-livable salary with the benefit of only working 6 months of the year and with a roster that you can look at 2,5,8 years out and know if you're working your kids birthday or NYE...
Given it takes anywhere from 18 months to three years to qualify as a Driver in your own right depending who you work for, yet the Covid disruptions have been with us for barely two, notwithstanding most every trainee Driver's role having hundreds if not a thousand or more applications, I'm calling bollocks on that claim.
Suburban & highspeed passenger no argument there. It's been done worldwide including the Sydney Metro Freight? Not a chance. The RoI isn't there. Rio Tinto did do it - after spending several billion dollars to do so, and have now found they cannot get qualified Driver's to work there because of their robots. On the other hand BHP is currently recruiting 200 trainee Driver's for their Pilbara operation. Aurizon recently took on 150 Qualified Driver's for their WA operation and Sydney Trains has recently undertaken a bulk trainee intake for both Suburban and Intercity working. Not exactly what I'd call under threat...
On the east coast, I believe it was around 85-90%, in the Pilbara not as many, perhaps 30-35% but that is rapidly increasing with the CFMEU making inroads and the likes of Rio & BHP negotiating EBA's.
Any monkey can operate a RPT aircraft or drive a train (and do, I worked with plenty in both industries). Flight crew roles, like most machinery operator jobs, are being automated to the point where the employee's value-add is no longer that critical (hence the QF academy cadets!). This is also driven by the drive to reduce the cost base (and maximise thin margins) by minimising service. Where value add is low, salaries and conditions decline.
Goods railways service industries that have much higher margins and are more economically critical than aviation (as COVID proved). Automating them, like automating ships, is extremely problematic. Regardless, I've done both and moved on so I don't really care. The aviation industry conditions are only going to get worse over time. Don't like it, stop whinging, get educated and find something else to do. Stop being the polar bear on a shrinking iceberg pretending yours was the best choice.
Being a pilot is not just about operating machinery. That is way off the mark.
Put simply. If pilots “operated” like the ceos and ever growing managerial “support”, well, let’s be realistic. Trains, buses and boats would be more reliable.
Put simply. If pilots “operated” like the ceos and ever growing managerial “support”, well, let’s be realistic. Trains, buses and boats would be more reliable.
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Flight crew roles, like most machinery operator jobs, are being automated
What are you smoking?
We don’t even have MANY automated trains inAustralia, or the world and you think pilots will be automated out any time soon…dreaming.
You only have to look at Airbus with their demonstrator A350, Garmin with their certified Auto-return system for things like the CirrusJet, or TBM to see the advancements in technology are there to allow it to happen. When regulators will approve it is the only remaining question...
Single-Pilot airliners are not as far away as you would think, after-all what is the fundamental difference in operating a single-pilot business jet vs a single-pilot certified airliner?
The difference, certification rules and about 150 plus people down the back who want someone up the front engaged in getting there safely, even if one is incapacitated.
If automation is so READY then why do we only have Autoland which has been around forever but no auto take off? Ponder that.
Fully autonomous cars have been the ‘tech’ promise for the last 20 years, always saying ‘autonomous vehicles will be here in 10 years’. I’m still waiting. Autonomous vehicles will be here…..eventually…..2050 for a full autonomous vehicle I reckon. Autonomous heavy jet ops………another 50 years at least. Main stream quantum computing or a real AI able to actually make a decision will be needed first, not just a coded response to an inflight situation. As mentioned, auto land has been around for a while yet even that is still a two person operation. Not really up on the small/ business jet ops, but IIRC the only single pilot light jet ops are wee little fellas up to about 5-8 seats….just my two cents worth..
The biggest hurdle is insurance.
Autonomous vehicles mean the onus will predominantly be on the Manufacturer’s, not the airline operating them. You have taken the airline-trained human element out.
Autonomous vehicles mean the onus will predominantly be on the Manufacturer’s, not the airline operating them. You have taken the airline-trained human element out.
Single-Pilot airliners are not as far away as you would think
You don't...Yet...But where are the Navigators, Radio Operators, FE's? All "Essential" roles in aviation right up until they weren't. Same as Guards on trains, or the Coey there too. Some jurisdictions still have them, a lot don't. Single-Pilot airliners are not as far away as you would think, after-all what is the fundamental difference in operating a single-pilot business jet vs a single-pilot certified airliner? In RPT roles, perhaps where the passengers would naturally baulk at it, but freighters? I'd be surprised if they aren't around by the end of the decade, and certainly by 2040.
You only have to look at Airbus with their demonstrator A350, Garmin with their certified Auto-return system for things like the CirrusJet, or TBM to see the advancements in technology are there to allow it to happen. When regulators will approve it is the only remaining question...
You only have to look at Airbus with their demonstrator A350, Garmin with their certified Auto-return system for things like the CirrusJet, or TBM to see the advancements in technology are there to allow it to happen. When regulators will approve it is the only remaining question...
-edit-
While I'm here, I'll update the Air NZ (ALPA) rates.
You start earning notional Command Pay after 6 years, so many A320 Captains will be on less than Year 12 but would be very rare on the Widebody's (takes 18 years to reach Year 12 Command Pay and ~24 years average to a WB Command).
Incentive Pay kicks in above 60hrs per roster with step increases at 75 and 90hrs.
Second Officer:
- Year 1: $114,528
- Year 8: $146,500
- Year 1: $128,202
- Year 8: $163,991
- Year 1: $152,656
- Year 8: $195,271
- Year 1:$178,764
- Year 8: $228,668
- Year 1: $199,397
- Year 12: $255,637
- Year 12: $304,398
- Year 12: $356,458
Last edited by ElZilcho; 14th Apr 2022 at 02:43.