Virgin Australia it is!
HAHAHAHAHA that is so funny 
Not a chance in hell that they will recruit directly onto A330, zero, nil nada.
ALL new FO's will go onto the E-Jet to allow those on the E-Jet to move onto the 737 or 777.
The A330 WILL ONLY BE USED DOMESTICALLY for the foreseeable future, even with the arrival of number 3 and 4.
It amazes me that people come on here to spin cr@p or spread bull$hit.
Why?
Not a chance in hell that they will recruit directly onto A330, zero, nil nada.
ALL new FO's will go onto the E-Jet to allow those on the E-Jet to move onto the 737 or 777.
The A330 WILL ONLY BE USED DOMESTICALLY for the foreseeable future, even with the arrival of number 3 and 4.
It amazes me that people come on here to spin cr@p or spread bull$hit.
Why?
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MASTEMA--I wish to correct Servos' post slightly. There are in fact 4 chances of Airbus experienced people going straight onto the A330: fat, slim, buckleys and none.
Servo, my understanding is that Ejet FOs will stay there until they get a command. ie: company requirement that 1st promotional move cannot be 'sideways'. It must be an increase in rank. Any variation is subject to company requirements, of course.
New FOs can go onto the Ejet or B737 as FOs (pay for your rating
) or the B777 as CzFOs (rating supplied 
). There is currently an excess of pilots at VA/VB and plenty willing to go on the A330. There wont be any more DE FOs or CAs on the B777 either. Many B777 FOs having done the command upgrade school already.
Servo, my understanding is that Ejet FOs will stay there until they get a command. ie: company requirement that 1st promotional move cannot be 'sideways'. It must be an increase in rank. Any variation is subject to company requirements, of course.
New FOs can go onto the Ejet or B737 as FOs (pay for your rating
) or the B777 as CzFOs (rating supplied ). There is currently an excess of pilots at VA/VB and plenty willing to go on the A330. There wont be any more DE FOs or CAs on the B777 either. Many B777 FOs having done the command upgrade school already.
Anthill, I should clarify that in the near future the requirements are expected to change so that all new hires will be employed on the E-Jet. You are correct about the sideways move.
In saying that, it is expected there will be a bit of movement among the fleets when final numbers are sorted with expected aircraft arrival and departures.
No external DE Capts or FO's, but there is still a deed in place until November that allows for Virgin Captains to apply and be accepted over an FO in VA for a command slot. Although the last few positions were filled by VA FO's, I would expect due lack of interest or not meeting the requirements/interview..........
In saying that, it is expected there will be a bit of movement among the fleets when final numbers are sorted with expected aircraft arrival and departures.
No external DE Capts or FO's, but there is still a deed in place until November that allows for Virgin Captains to apply and be accepted over an FO in VA for a command slot. Although the last few positions were filled by VA FO's, I would expect due lack of interest or not meeting the requirements/interview..........
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Requirement for FO's having to take a command to change aircraft types as per the EBA was relaxed early this year. Ejet FO's can now move over to the 737 or 330 and the 737 FO's can move across the the 330 as FO's.
All future pilots who join the company will start on the Ejet, even if you have Airbus time, 777, 737 or Space Shuttle time. Anyone one who thinks they will go into the RH seat of the 330 from outside the company is dreaming.
There will be no recruitment until later in the year, most likely around September/October.
All future pilots who join the company will start on the Ejet, even if you have Airbus time, 777, 737 or Space Shuttle time. Anyone one who thinks they will go into the RH seat of the 330 from outside the company is dreaming.
There will be no recruitment until later in the year, most likely around September/October.
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Does anyone have any info (which aircraft first/how fast on turn around), on when the the old VB aircraft will be fitted out and painted in Virgin Australia colours? Will the Embraers get business class too? Also heard they are planning IFE on the 73's etc, why wouldn't they install it now, surely it would be costly to do the refit now, then have to install IFE into seats in the future.
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MASTEMA, If I did that I would then have to give my son a command
My post reflects how recruitment in the future will occur at Virgin Australia based on facts rather than what people may have heard. For those who are members of the AFAP if you look at the Virgin Blue updates from early this year I think you will find info about them gaining a relaxation of the first must be to the LH seat. That paragraph should never have been in the current EBA, as it only works if you have a 1 aircraft type fleet and when the EBA was put together Virgin was moving to 2 aircraft type fleet.
The company is looking after the FO's who have been loyal, with most of the Ejet FO's having been on the aircraft for 2-3 years and most want to stay on it, but they can earn more as a 737 FO. If fleet pay comes in then they would stay on the Ejet and that might change what aircraft type new pilots would start on (still won't be the Bus).
JB has said it on numerous occasions the expansion that has occurred during the last 10 years will not happen again. He wants Virgin Australia to be the best airline in Australia, not the biggest. So those FO's who have joined in the last 1-2 years and those who will join in the future will be in the RH seat for a longer time than those in the past and if you want a Command on the 330 or 737 in Brisbane than you will be waiting at least 8 years.
So if you don't like the idea of being in the RH seat of the Ejet for a few years, before moving into the RH seat of the 737 or 330 don't apply it's that simple.
My post reflects how recruitment in the future will occur at Virgin Australia based on facts rather than what people may have heard. For those who are members of the AFAP if you look at the Virgin Blue updates from early this year I think you will find info about them gaining a relaxation of the first must be to the LH seat. That paragraph should never have been in the current EBA, as it only works if you have a 1 aircraft type fleet and when the EBA was put together Virgin was moving to 2 aircraft type fleet.
The company is looking after the FO's who have been loyal, with most of the Ejet FO's having been on the aircraft for 2-3 years and most want to stay on it, but they can earn more as a 737 FO. If fleet pay comes in then they would stay on the Ejet and that might change what aircraft type new pilots would start on (still won't be the Bus).
JB has said it on numerous occasions the expansion that has occurred during the last 10 years will not happen again. He wants Virgin Australia to be the best airline in Australia, not the biggest. So those FO's who have joined in the last 1-2 years and those who will join in the future will be in the RH seat for a longer time than those in the past and if you want a Command on the 330 or 737 in Brisbane than you will be waiting at least 8 years.
So if you don't like the idea of being in the RH seat of the Ejet for a few years, before moving into the RH seat of the 737 or 330 don't apply it's that simple.
Whilst there are plenty of plans and theories relating to Virgins future recruiting plans, nothing has actually been signed off or set in concrete.
The company ULTIMATELY will be looking to place new hires on the Emb, actually, ULTIMATELY, the company will be looking to place new hires on as Crz F/O's, but there is a lot of water to pass under the bridge for that to happen.
They already have too many emb drivers, and with the 140's leaving, that isn't going to get any better.
They would be silly to place externals on the 330 with so many willing and able current pilots more than capable of doing the job.
There are currently approx 35 pilots in the 'hold pool', guys and girls that were interviewed around December last year to Jan this year. About half of that group were on Ejet courses that were canned a few months ago, the remainder were to be placed on what may have been the last direct entry F/O spots onto the 73, which were due to start around Apr.
In the end, nobody knows when hiring will start again, so speculation is pointless, and when it does start, the first four odd courses will be drawn from the above pool anyway.
To those on the hold, and I know a few of you, regardless of type, you'll be joining a terrific company and can look forward to a fabulous career with a company doing it's best to re-invent itself.
Good luck to all at Virgin Australia, IMHO I think you are heading in the right direction and may not only be the carrier of choice soon, but the employer of choice also.
Good Luck
The company ULTIMATELY will be looking to place new hires on the Emb, actually, ULTIMATELY, the company will be looking to place new hires on as Crz F/O's, but there is a lot of water to pass under the bridge for that to happen.
They already have too many emb drivers, and with the 140's leaving, that isn't going to get any better.
They would be silly to place externals on the 330 with so many willing and able current pilots more than capable of doing the job.
There are currently approx 35 pilots in the 'hold pool', guys and girls that were interviewed around December last year to Jan this year. About half of that group were on Ejet courses that were canned a few months ago, the remainder were to be placed on what may have been the last direct entry F/O spots onto the 73, which were due to start around Apr.
In the end, nobody knows when hiring will start again, so speculation is pointless, and when it does start, the first four odd courses will be drawn from the above pool anyway.
To those on the hold, and I know a few of you, regardless of type, you'll be joining a terrific company and can look forward to a fabulous career with a company doing it's best to re-invent itself.
Good luck to all at Virgin Australia, IMHO I think you are heading in the right direction and may not only be the carrier of choice soon, but the employer of choice also.
Good Luck
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Is Virgin a good place to be a pilot?
G'Day all,
Not sure if this is the correct place for this question however there appears to be Virgin pilots currently looking at this thread,
Is Virgin a good place to work as a pilot?, are the crews generally good to fly with?, does management generally have its head screwed on correctly? Is the roster good/bad/indifferent?
I am currently looking at different airlines and wish to hear the views of people who actually work there. I am aware that all companies have good and bad points however would like to get a feel for morale etc
Pros and Cons welcome.
If this not the correct area to find this info could you please point me in the correct direction noting I already have substantial flying experience. (the wannabee section does not quite fit)
Cheers
Not sure if this is the correct place for this question however there appears to be Virgin pilots currently looking at this thread,
Is Virgin a good place to work as a pilot?, are the crews generally good to fly with?, does management generally have its head screwed on correctly? Is the roster good/bad/indifferent?
I am currently looking at different airlines and wish to hear the views of people who actually work there. I am aware that all companies have good and bad points however would like to get a feel for morale etc
Pros and Cons welcome.
If this not the correct area to find this info could you please point me in the correct direction noting I already have substantial flying experience. (the wannabee section does not quite fit)
Cheers
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Hey bulldog,
For my 2 cents worth Virgin is The place to work.John B is not only making the airline "the airline of choice" for the traveling public but the airline that pilots choose to work for.Every airline has its ups and downs but generally no major complaints here.
Re rosters, depends what machine you fly.
Re future, well I only hope there is enough oil left in this earth for us to see out retirement with this great company.
Qfeel
For my 2 cents worth Virgin is The place to work.John B is not only making the airline "the airline of choice" for the traveling public but the airline that pilots choose to work for.Every airline has its ups and downs but generally no major complaints here.
Re rosters, depends what machine you fly.
Re future, well I only hope there is enough oil left in this earth for us to see out retirement with this great company.
Qfeel
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Cheers Qfeel,
have had some other positive remarks about VB as well. Not the first person who has remarked that they believe JB is moving in the right direction. Morale at any work place tells you quite allot. Appreciate the response.
Cheers Bulldog
have had some other positive remarks about VB as well. Not the first person who has remarked that they believe JB is moving in the right direction. Morale at any work place tells you quite allot. Appreciate the response.
Cheers Bulldog
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Virgin blue pilots agreement 2007
With this agreement coming to an end this year, is there substantial changes on the cards or more likely a slight reshuffle then onwards and forwards?
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Bulldog, if I may also throw my 2 cents' worth of opinion into the ring, I've been with Virgin since late 2007 & I am still quite happy here - with no immediate desire to go anywhere else (unlike a few of my mates at a certain one star rated airline who have reached the end of their rope & are looking to get out). Sure, I could look at EK, EY or various other operators in the Sandpit region or Asia, but for me it has always been about lifestyle, & I love where I live, I love the friends I have, I love the things I get to do on my days off - & thats enough for me. None of this would be the case if I packed up & went elsewhere.
Does Virgin have issues? Of course, and who doesn't. I've always maintained a balanced view of the job on PPRuNe, & maintain that there are some things that still piss us off about the company - & could be dealt with a lot better than they have been. That said, & in spite of the anti-Borghetti sentiment expressed by some, I think we're very fortunate to have a CEO who is actively engaged with staff at all levels of the company, & even if he doesn't give you the answer you want to hear, at least he gives you the time of day. I've already had personal dealings with him on two occasions, & was very impressed by the courtesy & professional respect he showed me in addressing the issues I raised. He regularly sits in on monthly flight crew conference calls (taking questions from anyone who wants to ask), & you only have to talk to our counterparts at QF/JQ & ask them how much time they get each month with their CEO (not that AJ or BB would give a rat's arse in the first place) to realise that we are very fortunate to have the current leadership in place that we now have.
As for the other stuff that has been mentioned on this thread already, I would say that the 737 is still the pick of the fleet - at least for now. The base pay is better than the E-Jet (although most of my mates on it don't fly as many hours per month, so I guess it averages out), it has the greatest variety of destinations (with a nice mix of domestic & a little bit of overseas stuff for good measure, i.e. Bali, Phuket), & most importantly it has a mature & mostly reliable bidding system in place. Everyone occasionally gets a dud roster, but for the most part I get what I bid for each month - so I'm happy. Whatever happens, it will continue to be the bread & butter of Virgin's operation, so I think it's safe to say that there will always be job security for those who fly it - if such a thing exists in this most fickle of industries.
The A330 is the big unknown, IMHO, at least from a career/flying perspective. I have no doubt it will be popular with the punters who sit in the back, but for the timebeing it will do nothing but east coast-Perth, which I imagine will become very tedious, very quickly, for those who work on it. The base pay is only 5% more than the 737, & when you factor in the likelihood that overnights (& allowances) will be very rare - if at all - you're actually worse off on the hip pocket than if you stayed on the 737, which means the only people who will want to fly it right now are those suffering from "My Jet's Bigger Than Yours" syndrome. Everyone in the company believes that it will eventually fly to Asia, & it may well do so, although Borghetti says otherwise at this time. If it does, it will be a great aeroplane to work on, for the same reasons I already enjoy being on the 737: greater variety of destinations, more overnights (& associated allowances), & so on. In time I expect the bidding system will also improve. However, whilst at one stage I did have an expression of interest in the system for it, the 11th hour change of base from MEL to SYD killed my interest (for lifestyle reasons as already mentioned), & in hindsight I consider it to be a wise decision, as I get the feeling that I wouldn't have been a happy camper from being a guinea pig for entry into service of a new type. Much better to let others deal with all the crap until it gets established & all the kinks are ironed out. Others on PPRuNe have said that there's no shortage of people who want to fly it, but I'm not convinced. Maybe it would be more accurate to say that there's no shortage of people who want to fly it "when pay/conditions improve & it starts doing something other than Perth day after day." Until then, I think the 737 is still the aircraft of choice.
Ultimately, for all the things I could complain about the place, there's more that I like than what I don't - & I think we're certainly moving in the right direction. The vibe is good, most of us are optimistic, & now is an exciting time to be working for Virgin Australia.
Does Virgin have issues? Of course, and who doesn't. I've always maintained a balanced view of the job on PPRuNe, & maintain that there are some things that still piss us off about the company - & could be dealt with a lot better than they have been. That said, & in spite of the anti-Borghetti sentiment expressed by some, I think we're very fortunate to have a CEO who is actively engaged with staff at all levels of the company, & even if he doesn't give you the answer you want to hear, at least he gives you the time of day. I've already had personal dealings with him on two occasions, & was very impressed by the courtesy & professional respect he showed me in addressing the issues I raised. He regularly sits in on monthly flight crew conference calls (taking questions from anyone who wants to ask), & you only have to talk to our counterparts at QF/JQ & ask them how much time they get each month with their CEO (not that AJ or BB would give a rat's arse in the first place) to realise that we are very fortunate to have the current leadership in place that we now have.
As for the other stuff that has been mentioned on this thread already, I would say that the 737 is still the pick of the fleet - at least for now. The base pay is better than the E-Jet (although most of my mates on it don't fly as many hours per month, so I guess it averages out), it has the greatest variety of destinations (with a nice mix of domestic & a little bit of overseas stuff for good measure, i.e. Bali, Phuket), & most importantly it has a mature & mostly reliable bidding system in place. Everyone occasionally gets a dud roster, but for the most part I get what I bid for each month - so I'm happy. Whatever happens, it will continue to be the bread & butter of Virgin's operation, so I think it's safe to say that there will always be job security for those who fly it - if such a thing exists in this most fickle of industries.
The A330 is the big unknown, IMHO, at least from a career/flying perspective. I have no doubt it will be popular with the punters who sit in the back, but for the timebeing it will do nothing but east coast-Perth, which I imagine will become very tedious, very quickly, for those who work on it. The base pay is only 5% more than the 737, & when you factor in the likelihood that overnights (& allowances) will be very rare - if at all - you're actually worse off on the hip pocket than if you stayed on the 737, which means the only people who will want to fly it right now are those suffering from "My Jet's Bigger Than Yours" syndrome. Everyone in the company believes that it will eventually fly to Asia, & it may well do so, although Borghetti says otherwise at this time. If it does, it will be a great aeroplane to work on, for the same reasons I already enjoy being on the 737: greater variety of destinations, more overnights (& associated allowances), & so on. In time I expect the bidding system will also improve. However, whilst at one stage I did have an expression of interest in the system for it, the 11th hour change of base from MEL to SYD killed my interest (for lifestyle reasons as already mentioned), & in hindsight I consider it to be a wise decision, as I get the feeling that I wouldn't have been a happy camper from being a guinea pig for entry into service of a new type. Much better to let others deal with all the crap until it gets established & all the kinks are ironed out. Others on PPRuNe have said that there's no shortage of people who want to fly it, but I'm not convinced. Maybe it would be more accurate to say that there's no shortage of people who want to fly it "when pay/conditions improve & it starts doing something other than Perth day after day." Until then, I think the 737 is still the aircraft of choice.
Ultimately, for all the things I could complain about the place, there's more that I like than what I don't - & I think we're certainly moving in the right direction. The vibe is good, most of us are optimistic, & now is an exciting time to be working for Virgin Australia.
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Thanks Bunglerat,
I will be registering interest with VB in the not too distant future.
As with you I am looking at the whole package. I have a well paid job at the moment however aspects of the job are moving in a direction I am not interested in pursuing. I am willing to take a step back/sideways in the interim to hopefully secure a position in a company that is moving in the right direction and appears to have pretty good morale.
I have done a similar thing before and did not regret it, however it is now time to move on as priorities have changed. I am keen to apply for the airline that is correct for me in the long term, not just a shotgun resume approach to whoever has an AOC.
As for the progression, i have been at the bottom before and worked my way up so will not be anything too new to me. It really comes down to the guys and gals you fly with as well as the management. If they are good egg's life is good.
I have held and still hold a command appointment which is great fun, rewarding and challenging, however new company, new routes, procedures, people and location will give life enough spice for me to be happy. At the end of the day I love flying, certainly beats the days of crawling under houses and in roofs as a tradie, but sure not going to see my soul.
Thanks again for your substantial post and time
Cheers Bulldog
I will be registering interest with VB in the not too distant future.
As with you I am looking at the whole package. I have a well paid job at the moment however aspects of the job are moving in a direction I am not interested in pursuing. I am willing to take a step back/sideways in the interim to hopefully secure a position in a company that is moving in the right direction and appears to have pretty good morale.
I have done a similar thing before and did not regret it, however it is now time to move on as priorities have changed. I am keen to apply for the airline that is correct for me in the long term, not just a shotgun resume approach to whoever has an AOC.
As for the progression, i have been at the bottom before and worked my way up so will not be anything too new to me. It really comes down to the guys and gals you fly with as well as the management. If they are good egg's life is good.
I have held and still hold a command appointment which is great fun, rewarding and challenging, however new company, new routes, procedures, people and location will give life enough spice for me to be happy. At the end of the day I love flying, certainly beats the days of crawling under houses and in roofs as a tradie, but sure not going to see my soul.
Thanks again for your substantial post and time
Cheers Bulldog
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Well Bulldog_pirate, you can expect about another 10 years before you see a command again.
