An opportunity not to be missed!
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My guess is that they will get bugger all interest from experienced guys/gals but shyte loads of interest from our new "cadet" force with 500hrs A320 experience, as is the required amount of hours, plus their 200hrs which will mean an FO flying a wide body with 700hrs TT!
Hilarious!!!!
Hilarious!!!!
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What is hilarious is those who already have (a) wide body slots and (b) industrial clout urging those with neither (a) nor (b) to give up (a) voluntarily so that those with (b) never have to use it.
Now that is funny. Sad too......
(Edited to focus on the thrust of the argument)
Now that is funny. Sad too......
(Edited to focus on the thrust of the argument)
Last edited by genex; 23rd Feb 2011 at 07:04.
Are Jetstar "mainline" training personnel carrying out the simulator training for both these temporary A330 F/O's and the permanent Singapore based pilots?
If they are, they need to have a quick rethink as they are contributing to their own professional demise. There is no doubt that the offshore bases are aimed at killing off JQ Oz T & C's.
If they are, they need to have a quick rethink as they are contributing to their own professional demise. There is no doubt that the offshore bases are aimed at killing off JQ Oz T & C's.
Just like QF mainline pilots who did the sims and line training for the Jetconnect 737-800 conversions.
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Genex,
Why is it Aipa propaganda to want respectable pay and conditions for the working Australian pilot?
I would have thought that it would have been the general consensus to be well remunerated and well trained throughout this profession.
You have shown me the light, shame on you Aipa for wanting a well paid profession, Shame!
Why is it Aipa propaganda to want respectable pay and conditions for the working Australian pilot?
I would have thought that it would have been the general consensus to be well remunerated and well trained throughout this profession.
You have shown me the light, shame on you Aipa for wanting a well paid profession, Shame!
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Now this is sad, and I commend this comment to you personally, Genex:
Yet you bleat constantly about QF and AIPA. Yet you constantly demean QF / AIPA. Yet you constantly sneer at QF / AIPA. HYPOCRIT!
There but for the grace of God go I, and YOU GENEX.
If pride goes before a fall, then Genex my friend, you are heading for a big one, because your post is hypocritical, arrogant, stupid and just plain wrong.
And it does nothing to add to the debate. Start your own "I hate QF thread", and stop tainting others with your rot.
I did my wide body flying on quality aircraft with a quality airline with quality professionals who neither bleated nor demeaned their fellow pilots and who were conscious that pride does in fact go before a fall. If they made mistakes we put vast resources into learning from them and re-training. We didn't sneer.
"This is hilarious.....imagine supposedly well-trained pilots taking off and approaching through known thunderstorms, nearly running out of fuel, destroying a perfectly innocent golf-course and a 747 all at once....this is the stuff of comics strips not professionalism"
If pride goes before a fall, then Genex my friend, you are heading for a big one, because your post is hypocritical, arrogant, stupid and just plain wrong.
And it does nothing to add to the debate. Start your own "I hate QF thread", and stop tainting others with your rot.
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Genex,
The Golfcourse incident you keep dredging up to support your argument is farcical.
Read the ATSB report have we??
If you had, you would see that this accident was a direct result of Managements blindly driven cost cutting mantra instigated without sufficient or robust enough risk assessment!
The very same rot that every thinking pilot in the Qantas Group, Jetstar pilots included is trying to stop.
So the Qantas 1 incident in BKK rather than being the exception you keep upholding it to be is just another fine example of Managements, mismanagement!
The Golfcourse incident you keep dredging up to support your argument is farcical.
Read the ATSB report have we??
If you had, you would see that this accident was a direct result of Managements blindly driven cost cutting mantra instigated without sufficient or robust enough risk assessment!
The very same rot that every thinking pilot in the Qantas Group, Jetstar pilots included is trying to stop.
So the Qantas 1 incident in BKK rather than being the exception you keep upholding it to be is just another fine example of Managements, mismanagement!
Last edited by blow.n.gasket; 23rd Feb 2011 at 05:41.
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Genex, I really shouldn't bite, but why not?
Aside from your apparent desire to see Australian T&C's reduced, you also have proved to me that you simply don't know the facts of certain QF incidents or are selective with what you write . A specific case in point: you refer to QF pilots taking off through known thunderstorms. Do you have a specific incident in mind? Because if you are referring to the 767 out of Cooly in 2003 (yes, goes way back, but then again you are reaching back to 1999 and QF1 at BKK) then I know both pilots involved, I know what the BoM knew, what the SMC knew but what the pilots were NOT told. Oh, and the ATSB knows all the facts also (refer to the final report). I tell you, if this is what you are basing your slander on then you need to back off. If not that incident, then please elaborate.
Aside from your apparent desire to see Australian T&C's reduced, you also have proved to me that you simply don't know the facts of certain QF incidents or are selective with what you write . A specific case in point: you refer to QF pilots taking off through known thunderstorms. Do you have a specific incident in mind? Because if you are referring to the 767 out of Cooly in 2003 (yes, goes way back, but then again you are reaching back to 1999 and QF1 at BKK) then I know both pilots involved, I know what the BoM knew, what the SMC knew but what the pilots were NOT told. Oh, and the ATSB knows all the facts also (refer to the final report). I tell you, if this is what you are basing your slander on then you need to back off. If not that incident, then please elaborate.
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What a dysfunctional, farked up bunch of snivelling, self-centred, "I'm alright Jack" pack of arseholes you blokes are.
PILOT UNITY. THE BROTHERHOOD OF PILOTS.
WHAT A DISGRACE.
I'm embarrassed to be a pilot.
I thought we were better than this. Where's the respect, courtesy and compassion for our fellow colleagues?
I am saying farewell to one of the best pilots and friends I have ever had the privilege of meeting on Monday. You blokes need to take a reality check and realise what is actually important in life.
Rant over!!!!!!!
PILOT UNITY. THE BROTHERHOOD OF PILOTS.
WHAT A DISGRACE.
I'm embarrassed to be a pilot.
I thought we were better than this. Where's the respect, courtesy and compassion for our fellow colleagues?
I am saying farewell to one of the best pilots and friends I have ever had the privilege of meeting on Monday. You blokes need to take a reality check and realise what is actually important in life.
Rant over!!!!!!!
Last edited by Normasars; 23rd Feb 2011 at 05:45.
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Normasars,
You are right to question pilot unity, outside of a flightdeck there really has never been such a thing, history confirms that.
And that is the problem.
Until there is unity between ALL groups and individuals within the Australian piloting community the erosion of conditions will continue. People like genex have to realise that organisations like Aipa are not the enemy. Fat#ss, bloodsucking executives that would sell there daughter to a pimp for a buck are the ones we need to unite and fight against.
Qf pilots are trying to make a stand, but they can't do it on there own, its time for a call to arms to all pilots to stand up for this profession or it will be gone before we know it.
You are right to question pilot unity, outside of a flightdeck there really has never been such a thing, history confirms that.
And that is the problem.
Until there is unity between ALL groups and individuals within the Australian piloting community the erosion of conditions will continue. People like genex have to realise that organisations like Aipa are not the enemy. Fat#ss, bloodsucking executives that would sell there daughter to a pimp for a buck are the ones we need to unite and fight against.
Qf pilots are trying to make a stand, but they can't do it on there own, its time for a call to arms to all pilots to stand up for this profession or it will be gone before we know it.
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Hear, hear, Stalin.
Sorry to hear about your mate, Norma. It does serve as a reality check.
And I notice that Genex has seriously edited his last post. For those coming into the thread now, the last few rather indignant posts were a result of some, lets just say, less than helpful remarks by Genex. A selection of his quotes were included in my last post...
Sorry to hear about your mate, Norma. It does serve as a reality check.
And I notice that Genex has seriously edited his last post. For those coming into the thread now, the last few rather indignant posts were a result of some, lets just say, less than helpful remarks by Genex. A selection of his quotes were included in my last post...
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Yes, Balance.
There really should be a feature on PPrune (like on certain other aviation BB's) whereby you can edit a post for up to an hour or so maximum. Thereafter you have "locked it in, Eddy!"
It is the measure of character (or, more accurately, a lack thereof) to say a bunch of scurrilous things, leave it out there for a few hours and then delete it, pretending to have never said it.
There really should be a feature on PPrune (like on certain other aviation BB's) whereby you can edit a post for up to an hour or so maximum. Thereafter you have "locked it in, Eddy!"
It is the measure of character (or, more accurately, a lack thereof) to say a bunch of scurrilous things, leave it out there for a few hours and then delete it, pretending to have never said it.
Just ignore Genex. He is a sh*tstirrer from way back.
He holds a lot of anger inside and just goes to show that Tall Poppy Syndrome is alive and well in his black little heart.
From the mind of Genex :
I will blame all others for my own failings. I am not responsible for my own destiny. I will not seek to improve my own lot. Instead, I will bring those around me own to mine.
He holds a lot of anger inside and just goes to show that Tall Poppy Syndrome is alive and well in his black little heart.
From the mind of Genex :
I will blame all others for my own failings. I am not responsible for my own destiny. I will not seek to improve my own lot. Instead, I will bring those around me own to mine.
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Actually I hold no anger inside. As Marilyn Monroe once said...."Those who know me better, know better".
I wish all pilots were united, in one responsible, strong, well-funded and respected union, with pilot councils for each group, and that all pilots were paid according to a pleasant negotiated blend of the financial capabilities of their outfit and their qualifications and experience. I wish that management would see that the overall cost of doing something properly usually is less than doing it poorly. I wish that blind ideology had no place in boardrooms or executive suites and that the true cost of executing that ideology could be identified and those reponsible held accountable. I wish that years ago or even recently, Qantas had ordered about 30 777s and had a cost structure in place that enabled profitable growth at all ends of the market. I wish that the pay differential between the most junior cabin crew and the CEO was no more than a factor of about 15 and that bonuses were paid in post-dated shares only and then only on the basis of "real" long term performance.I wish that outsourcing was regarded as a necessary evil to be used sparingly rather than a shrine to be worshipped. I wish that the executive committee of major airlines had at least a third of their membership from people who actually had ramp, galley, hangar or cockpit dirt under their fingernails. I wish that all cadets were highly motivated, paid an allowance and received first class training, not just the minimum as part of a cost cutting scheme. I wish that pilots stuck in group subsidiaries who are good enough to wear the same uniform as mainline brethren simply got the chance to show in the simulator and line training whether they could meet the standard on bigger types, not be stuck by some rigid mix of "divide and conquer" and an implied belief that only certain people are "good enough" to fly big jets. I wish that it could be understood that asking a young pilot to refuse to fly a 330 in one part of the group while the same pilot is denied the chance to fly the 330 by recruitment policies in another part of the group is nonsensical. I wish the public could be made to see that $39 airfares are not sustainable and that when they are offered, as seat fillers, then there really will be "no frills". I wish that all pilots could see that a lot has changed since deregulation was announced in 1987 and that some realities such as LCCs are simply evolutionary and capable of being implemented properly and dynamically, not necessarily evil per se.
I am in the latter chapters of a happy and challenging career, with few regrets and certainly none I blame others for. I bear no grudge even for the scores and scores and scores of pilots who crossed picket lines in '89 and did the industry such damage. I prefer to be surrounded by those who stood firm that's all. I have not had the chance to check inside but hope and pray that my heart is neither little nor black.
To those who prefer to cling to the past, and shrink from the use of unity and strength by those in a position to do so....I do not apologize for asking you to do more.
I am neither a victim, nor bitter. My track record of doing my best for the industry in Australia and abroad is at least average and I hope better.
If you do care to understand how someone can be constructively critical yet stand tall I call to your attention William Henley who well described my outlook on life......
In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.
Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds, and shall find, me unafraid.
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.
And on that note Genex leaves Prune. Build your new world with strength, vision, unity and hope....or have others do it for you on their terms. Your choice. Good luck.
I wish all pilots were united, in one responsible, strong, well-funded and respected union, with pilot councils for each group, and that all pilots were paid according to a pleasant negotiated blend of the financial capabilities of their outfit and their qualifications and experience. I wish that management would see that the overall cost of doing something properly usually is less than doing it poorly. I wish that blind ideology had no place in boardrooms or executive suites and that the true cost of executing that ideology could be identified and those reponsible held accountable. I wish that years ago or even recently, Qantas had ordered about 30 777s and had a cost structure in place that enabled profitable growth at all ends of the market. I wish that the pay differential between the most junior cabin crew and the CEO was no more than a factor of about 15 and that bonuses were paid in post-dated shares only and then only on the basis of "real" long term performance.I wish that outsourcing was regarded as a necessary evil to be used sparingly rather than a shrine to be worshipped. I wish that the executive committee of major airlines had at least a third of their membership from people who actually had ramp, galley, hangar or cockpit dirt under their fingernails. I wish that all cadets were highly motivated, paid an allowance and received first class training, not just the minimum as part of a cost cutting scheme. I wish that pilots stuck in group subsidiaries who are good enough to wear the same uniform as mainline brethren simply got the chance to show in the simulator and line training whether they could meet the standard on bigger types, not be stuck by some rigid mix of "divide and conquer" and an implied belief that only certain people are "good enough" to fly big jets. I wish that it could be understood that asking a young pilot to refuse to fly a 330 in one part of the group while the same pilot is denied the chance to fly the 330 by recruitment policies in another part of the group is nonsensical. I wish the public could be made to see that $39 airfares are not sustainable and that when they are offered, as seat fillers, then there really will be "no frills". I wish that all pilots could see that a lot has changed since deregulation was announced in 1987 and that some realities such as LCCs are simply evolutionary and capable of being implemented properly and dynamically, not necessarily evil per se.
I am in the latter chapters of a happy and challenging career, with few regrets and certainly none I blame others for. I bear no grudge even for the scores and scores and scores of pilots who crossed picket lines in '89 and did the industry such damage. I prefer to be surrounded by those who stood firm that's all. I have not had the chance to check inside but hope and pray that my heart is neither little nor black.
To those who prefer to cling to the past, and shrink from the use of unity and strength by those in a position to do so....I do not apologize for asking you to do more.
I am neither a victim, nor bitter. My track record of doing my best for the industry in Australia and abroad is at least average and I hope better.
If you do care to understand how someone can be constructively critical yet stand tall I call to your attention William Henley who well described my outlook on life......
In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.
Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds, and shall find, me unafraid.
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.
And on that note Genex leaves Prune. Build your new world with strength, vision, unity and hope....or have others do it for you on their terms. Your choice. Good luck.
Last edited by genex; 24th Feb 2011 at 02:50.
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Pilots of Australian Aviation today need one united pilot group (association, union etc), similar to how BALPA is structured in the UK. A overall committee that has reps from all airlines and then individual committees for day to day business of each individual airline.
Resources can be shared, it will be healthy financially and no more division.
Stop the rot.
Resources can be shared, it will be healthy financially and no more division.
Stop the rot.
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Credit where it is due. An eloquent post, Genex, and I enjoyed reading it.
My wish is that your former posts were of the quality of your final one. Unfortunately, as with some of your wishes, it just won't happen.
Pity. Good luck to you.
My wish is that your former posts were of the quality of your final one. Unfortunately, as with some of your wishes, it just won't happen.
Pity. Good luck to you.
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Regretably genex, you had to spoil it all and make one more untrue accusation towards AIPA, dressed up as fact.
sigh
sigh
Last edited by noip; 24th Feb 2011 at 01:53. Reason: grammar
Nunc est bibendum
Genex, I like your big paragraph. You'll get no arguments from the overwhelming majority of Qantas pilots.
I did a double take at your comments that AIPA members crossed picket lines during '89- something that didn't occur. However, the nitty gritty of your comments are correct. AIPA does now have a number of members who 'returned' during '89 prior to AFAP approving a return. I think it's a bit disingenuous to claim that AIPA is flawed based on the actions of what amount to about 200 QF pilots- not all of whom are AIPA members- who weren't actually AIPA members at the time they returned. Whilst I was only just out of high school when that occurred and have personal opinions on the matter, they're irrelevant these days and what matters is working on the issues in front of us. Incidentally, there are about current 700 QF mainline AIPA members who were in long haul at the time of '89. There are 1300-1400 who have joined since that time.
I did a double take at your comments that AIPA members crossed picket lines during '89- something that didn't occur. However, the nitty gritty of your comments are correct. AIPA does now have a number of members who 'returned' during '89 prior to AFAP approving a return. I think it's a bit disingenuous to claim that AIPA is flawed based on the actions of what amount to about 200 QF pilots- not all of whom are AIPA members- who weren't actually AIPA members at the time they returned. Whilst I was only just out of high school when that occurred and have personal opinions on the matter, they're irrelevant these days and what matters is working on the issues in front of us. Incidentally, there are about current 700 QF mainline AIPA members who were in long haul at the time of '89. There are 1300-1400 who have joined since that time.
Genex, nicely stated.
...however
Those to whom Genex refers currently represent at most about 4% of the AIPA membership. Perhaps you'd be surprised to learn that many did not and subsequently have not joined AIPA, probably for the same reason that they returned to their previous employers after that dispute.
Best wishes Genex. Despite the fact that you often annoyed me with your posts, you never failed to encourage some discussion.
...however
I bear no grudge even for the scores and scores and scores of current AIPA members who crossed picket lines in '89 and did the industry such damage.
Best wishes Genex. Despite the fact that you often annoyed me with your posts, you never failed to encourage some discussion.