Airlines cancelling a flight because it's not full?
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Airlines cancelling a flight because it's not full?
I haven't followed the rules regarding this for many years but I though once an RPT and you could not cancel a scheduled RPT run because it didn't have enough passengers, only if the plane went tech or the like.
Mate of mine on another forum says this though ...
I'm dubious, but have the rules regarding RPT changed or is he talking crap?
Mate of mine on another forum says this though ...
I'm dubious, but have the rules regarding RPT changed or is he talking crap?
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Airlines dont usually cancel flights on the day because numbers are low, usually 1-2 weeks out pax might get a change of schedule email or something. Tiger was canceling flights due to low numbers back in 2008 within the week of that flight, those days have since gone, and the only reason Tiger will cancel a flights is tech/curfew constraints.
But if a carrier is in desperate need of an aircraft due to another gone tech, then why not cancel the flight headed for Launceston with 50 pax vs 180 waiting to go to sydney.
But if a carrier is in desperate need of an aircraft due to another gone tech, then why not cancel the flight headed for Launceston with 50 pax vs 180 waiting to go to sydney.
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Back in the aftermath of the Bali Bombing Garuda were routinely flying with twenty or fewer pax. Several flights had more crew than passengers.
I don't know the actual rule, but there would be very few international flights or non-peak hour domestic flights leave the ground if they needed a full load. I haven't seen the load numbers recently but Tiger don't always look full to me when they arrive/depart.
Maybe he was mistaken? I wouldn't be surprised if they had a break-even number, but full or nothing seems a bit unrealistic.
I don't know the actual rule, but there would be very few international flights or non-peak hour domestic flights leave the ground if they needed a full load. I haven't seen the load numbers recently but Tiger don't always look full to me when they arrive/depart.
Maybe he was mistaken? I wouldn't be surprised if they had a break-even number, but full or nothing seems a bit unrealistic.
Garuda GA714/715 DPS-SYD-DPS 22 FEB 11 XNOOP.
They've been running 2 flights daily lately from DPS & CGK, with not great loads. It has been suggested that CGK-DPS-SYD would be more efficient, but hey we're talking airlines here
, sometimes common sense doesn't come into the equation 
.
Edited due lack of proof reading
They've been running 2 flights daily lately from DPS & CGK, with not great loads. It has been suggested that CGK-DPS-SYD would be more efficient, but hey we're talking airlines here
, sometimes common sense doesn't come into the equation .Edited due lack of proof reading
G'day 18-wheeler
Where would the rules be to prevent an airline cancelling a flight?
Ansett was a master at doing it, cancelling a flight and combining the pax onto a later service to the same port. The difference with AN of course was that they had a LOT of services and they were a "Service" airline, so they took care of the pax.
The only 'rules' preventing the cancellation of a flight are the rules of Good Customer Service which, in my experience, appear to be non-binding on most Australian airlines (despite the fervent desires of the hard-working staff )
Where would the rules be to prevent an airline cancelling a flight?
Ansett was a master at doing it, cancelling a flight and combining the pax onto a later service to the same port. The difference with AN of course was that they had a LOT of services and they were a "Service" airline, so they took care of the pax.
The only 'rules' preventing the cancellation of a flight are the rules of Good Customer Service which, in my experience, appear to be non-binding on most Australian airlines (despite the fervent desires of the hard-working staff
)
Years ago British Airways did the opposite, on some shuttle services they guaranteed that if you booked and turned up in time you would fly even if they had to roll out a BAC 1-11 just for you.
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In the days of the Two Airline Agreement, operating aircraft type, schedules and fares required prior approval and cancelled flights were reported to DCA.
Since the Two Airline Agreement was abolished, there is no rule that would prohibit an airline cancelling a scheduled domestic flight.
Since the Two Airline Agreement was abolished, there is no rule that would prohibit an airline cancelling a scheduled domestic flight.
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The airline will also cancel or delay a perfectly scheduled on time flight at times. A very basic example as follows :
Two JQ flights sit on the tarmac in AVV. Both servicable. Time is 2000 and one flight is headed to SYD and one to BNE with the same departure time. Pax are yet to board. ( I would say 'Guests' if it was a DJ flight).The SYD aircraft craps out on the tarmac which creates a curfew dilema. No probs, switch aircraft, SYD pax board what was the BNE aircraft and depart with enough time spare to beat curfew into SYD. The BNE pax are told their aircraft has shat itself ( the pax are normally none the wiser) and they enjoy their 5 hour delay at the exciting AVV and arrive into BNE at 0200 or so not even knowing that their original aircraft in pristine condition has got SYD pax home on time while the poor BNE pax get dudded simply because their home town does not have a curfew and they were given the clapped out SYD plane which is now repaired. At the end of the day the airline has saved itself a lot of money getting those pax back to SYD.
But wait for the bonus, the AVV/BNE flight, (remember this is hypothetical) lets say it was JQ 666 gets cancelled (not really) and is rescheduled to depart AVV 5 hours later as JQ 9666. It has now got a new flight number and actually is on time, not delayed at all, as the new flight number (JQ 9666) actually departs on time at its scheduled time of 2345 !
It's all part of the game !
Two JQ flights sit on the tarmac in AVV. Both servicable. Time is 2000 and one flight is headed to SYD and one to BNE with the same departure time. Pax are yet to board. ( I would say 'Guests' if it was a DJ flight).The SYD aircraft craps out on the tarmac which creates a curfew dilema. No probs, switch aircraft, SYD pax board what was the BNE aircraft and depart with enough time spare to beat curfew into SYD. The BNE pax are told their aircraft has shat itself ( the pax are normally none the wiser) and they enjoy their 5 hour delay at the exciting AVV and arrive into BNE at 0200 or so not even knowing that their original aircraft in pristine condition has got SYD pax home on time while the poor BNE pax get dudded simply because their home town does not have a curfew and they were given the clapped out SYD plane which is now repaired. At the end of the day the airline has saved itself a lot of money getting those pax back to SYD.
But wait for the bonus, the AVV/BNE flight, (remember this is hypothetical) lets say it was JQ 666 gets cancelled (not really) and is rescheduled to depart AVV 5 hours later as JQ 9666. It has now got a new flight number and actually is on time, not delayed at all, as the new flight number (JQ 9666) actually departs on time at its scheduled time of 2345 !
It's all part of the game !
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Good point Cactusjack. I remember the Big Q doing the same thing in Brisbane late one night when the Sydney bound aircraft blew a gasket and the Melbourne pax got punted off their ready to go 737 so the Sydneysiders could make curfew.
A well meaning but rather ill advised terminal PA by the CS manager went something along the lines of 'we know all our Melbourne customers will be understanding of the delay so the Sydney passengers can get home tonight'. The loud, heartfelt and fairly fruity comments from the Melbourne departure gate suggested that those passengers didn't believe in the big picture
. FWIW, thanks to the LAMEs they got out about an hour behind schedule, so everyone slept in their own beds that night (unless they'd planned otherwise ). Probably bad PR practice on the part of the CS manager, but at least he was honest. I'm one of the dwindling number of people who appreciate that.
A well meaning but rather ill advised terminal PA by the CS manager went something along the lines of 'we know all our Melbourne customers will be understanding of the delay so the Sydney passengers can get home tonight'. The loud, heartfelt and fairly fruity comments from the Melbourne departure gate suggested that those passengers didn't believe in the big picture
. FWIW, thanks to the LAMEs they got out about an hour behind schedule, so everyone slept in their own beds that night (unless they'd planned otherwise ). Probably bad PR practice on the part of the CS manager, but at least he was honest. I'm one of the dwindling number of people who appreciate that.
To quote from one of my recent airline tickets:
9.2 Cancellation, Changes of Schedules: At any time after a booking has
been made we may change our schedules and/or cancel, terminate, divert,
postpone reschedule or delay any flight where we reasonably consider this
to be justified by circumstances beyond our control or for reasons of safety
or commercial reasons.
been made we may change our schedules and/or cancel, terminate, divert,
postpone reschedule or delay any flight where we reasonably consider this
to be justified by circumstances beyond our control or for reasons of safety
or commercial reasons.
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Garuda GA714/715 DPS-SYD-DPS 22 FEB 11 XNOOP.
They've been running 2 flights daily lately from DPS & CGK, with not great loads. It has been suggested that CGK-DPS-SYD would be more efficient, but hey we're talking airlines here, sometimes common sense doesn't come into the equation .
They've been running 2 flights daily lately from DPS & CGK, with not great loads. It has been suggested that CGK-DPS-SYD would be more efficient, but hey we're talking airlines here
, sometimes common sense doesn't come into the equation .Join Date: Jan 1998
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DJ are pretty good at combining flights at the last minute .. the last time I travelled with them the reason given was exactly that - light load on the 1700 flight saw that service withdrawn and pax transferred onto a later flight ..
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Where would the rules be to prevent an airline cancelling a flight?
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I know someone that works in the ops department for the budget carrier. A flight will be cancelled and those pax are shoved onto the later flight. Apparently it is not that uncommon.
The yield management team at Ansett were very good at doing that when loads were light, flight would go unserviceable and they would move passengers onto the next available flight.