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Perth Airport

Old 19th Feb 2011, 11:59
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The rest of the world seems to build decent aviation infrastructure why doesn't Australia?


Um, this is not a comprehensive list but the following come to mind:

Apathy, short sighted management, aforementioned empire building, bonus culture, lack of investment, lack of vision, lack of balls, over inflated perception of our own importance, isolation, lame government landlords (of leased airports) - and these are the PG rated ones.

You only have to travel to any of our regional neighbours - Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, hell even Bangkok now - to realise that almost all Australian airports are about 10 - 20 years behind the minimum standard.

Unfortunately Perth is 10 - 20 years behind the best Australian airports!!

I am finding it harder to tell the difference between the Perth "International" and Denpasar terminals. Oh, yeah now I remember, Denpasar is cheaper, more modern and easier to negotiate
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Old 19th Feb 2011, 23:24
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westausatc - yes, thats the one. Its a sad state of affairs when you say "a manager who was once rated on the airspace they manage", and you have a choice of one.

Reference staffing, how many crews who fly into PH realise that the arrival rate is often set below what the airport can handle because of staffing shortages? Last Wed afternoon for example instead of 6 controllers to run the 5 radar sectors around PH, only 4 were available, 1 of which was rated on only 1 sector, the second only on 2. Extensive wx diversions were predicted. Solution, reduce arrival rate all afternoon (no NOTAM obviously), make controllers do 3.5+ hours on the console without even a toilet break, and no one has to know!

The 'TCU only' thing as far as I can tell is/was an anachronism, stemming from the old TAR spinning faster than the old RSR and the old green screen updating faster, 5 seconds verses 12. Oh, and TCU controllers being supermen, in their minds anyway .

As for moving the inner sector to PH, I never did see an official announcement cancelling PH APP's move to Melbourne centre. I just assumed that once PEA APP moved in, it was cancelled. Moving sectors to PH would be a 180 degree change in policy, umm which happens often now that I think about it.

Back to Ph RWY's though, the quickest/cheapest improvement I can see would be to extend the northern end of 06/24 to allow SIMOPS for A320/B737/B717 and below. Even then, looking at a map I suspect there would be some engineering issues with the creek, and undoubtedly even more issued with various 'anti-' groups.

It all comes down to money. European and Asian airports are to an extent competing with each other for business. If you were a shareholder in WAC, and they announced an expensive upgrade of the runways and taxiways on the grounds that the airport will work better, but won't make any more money, would you support it?
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Old 19th Feb 2011, 23:40
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.....and hence the reason why airports should never be private assets, needed works don't create additional revenue but they make it run smoother.
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Old 19th Feb 2011, 23:54
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Reference staffing, how many crews who fly into PH realise that the arrival rate is often set below what the airport can handle because of staffing shortages?
Get with the times! Zer is no staffing shortage! Ze dumkoff kontrollers vont dayz off! Zis must stop. 3.5 hours at the console? Did anybody wet themselves? If not ve must try for 4 hours next time...
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Old 20th Feb 2011, 00:09
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I was tempted to but a box of huggies with "Short Break Procedure" written on it on the ALM console, along with a jack-in-the-box labeled "ALM UFB", but after my last telling off I chickened out.
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Old 20th Feb 2011, 07:22
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and hence the reason why airports should never be private assets, needed works don't create additional revenue but they make it run smoother.
Exactly right. If they must be private then the rules of engagement need to be water tight.

It becomes cost shifting. Instead of WAC spending on airport infrastructure to ease congestion and delays, the aircraft operators pay for it with fuel, this in turn is paid for by the passengers, who are none the wiser because our media is unable to explain a complex argument to the public at large. They do simple really well...boat people bad...Mr Abbott bad...Kylie good.
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Old 20th Feb 2011, 10:23
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The 'TCU only' thing as far as I can tell is/was an anachronism, stemming from the old TAR spinning faster than the old RSR and the old green screen updating faster, 5 seconds verses 12. Oh, and TCU controllers being supermen, in their minds anyway.
True.

The Melbourne Tech's could think of no reason why West Radar could not apply a 3NM separation standard within 100NM. The reference to "TCU only" seemed to be nothing more than ATC politics and a demarcation. Something that we as a profession in Australia have only ourselves to blame.

Some years ago I flew into Marseilles up-the-front (courtesy of BA) and watched on TCAS an opposite-direction aircraft pass 5NM abeam us on descent. The crew told me that the separation standard was 3NM... everywhere.

If Area Controllers in France can apply a 3NM separation standard using similar equipment then why can't Area Controllers in Melbourne?

As for an additional console or two in the Perth TCU... it can be done.

Staffing issues can be solved and it could quite easily become a Feeder Sector for the TCU if not an Approach-Journeyman position. Perth Inners in TAAATS sat alongside Approach/Departures in the TCU during Consolidation. There is no reason why it couldn't happen again.
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Old 20th Feb 2011, 22:45
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Why not litigate? Add up what it's costing your airline to sit around and wait over the course of a year then sue whoever necessary for failing their duty of care?

Traditionally an excellent method for enforcing change.
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Old 22nd Feb 2011, 08:29
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Add up what it's costing your airline to sit around and wait
I have often wondered the same thing. Heard a B767 crew recently tell ATC that they burn 600kg per side per hour at idle on the ground. He had been waiting for 40 mins by the time he got to the gate.

What about the A320's, B737's and A330's that regularly wait for a vacant bay. How much do they burn sitting at idle with a plane load of frustrated pax?

What is the P.A to the pax like?

"Ladies and gents, Captain 4 bars again. Unfortunately despite our best efforts to defy gravity and hurtle through the stratosphere at 80% the speed of sound, we are now stuck here in this tube because we have nowhere to park! Apparently our arrival is a surprise - AGAIN. So stay belted in, don't go to the loo, don' t move. We should have a gate within the hour - on average!!!!"
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Old 22nd Feb 2011, 10:04
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Heard a B767 crew recently tell ATC that they burn 600kg per side per hour at idle on the ground
I assume that they can't shut one down whilst waiting, or taxiing onto a bridge on one is a bit iffy?

What about the A320's, B737's and A330's that regularly wait for a vacant bay. How much do they burn sitting at idle with a plane load of frustrated pax?
How much of this is caused by airport delays verses company delays? Capt 4 bars had better not have the boss in the back, as AJ may be unimpressed by the sledging being meted out by 4 bars to his employer.
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Old 27th Feb 2011, 05:48
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The Australian Financial Review page 3, 19th January 2011:

"A net 56% of mining, oil and gas firms expect to increase their workforce in the next three months"

Adrian Rollins
Economics Correspondent.
A significant increase in FIFO for Western Australia in 2011?

One could suggest that an increase in capacity on the ground at Perth and in Airspace Management would be the logical response.

However, there are two economies in Australia. The critical problem exists in one economy... the tier of government and Government Business Enterprise responsible for the solution resides in the other economy... a long, long, way away as they sip their lattes this morning over the Canberra Times and The Age.
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Old 2nd Mar 2011, 23:26
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Nosiy 'Planes...

Geoff Thomas, aka Bbiggles, in The West today:
Residents living under Perth Airport flight paths will have to keep putting up with aircraft noise after the Federal Government rejected solutions including installing sound insulation in their homes.

A Senate inquiry into the effectiveness of Airservices Australia's handling of aircraft noise also recommended altering flight paths to share the noise with other suburbs and changing noise measurement to a more sensitive European system.

But the Gillard Government has decided that despite the inquiry's findings, Perth Airport is not noisy enough to warrant the measures.

About 220,000 people live in suburbs surrounding Perth Airport and more than 400 flights take off and land each day.

Passenger numbers are increasing about 10 per cent a year.

Steve Irons, the Federal member for Swan, yesterday challenged Federal Transport Minister Anthony Albanese to visit his eastern suburbs electorate.

"The noise is just as bad as his electorate in Sydney," Mr Irons said. "The Labor Government says it will not provide noise insulation to Perth residents on the grounds that ANEF (Australia Noise Exposure Forecast) contours show noise to be not that bad.

"I challenge the Minister to come to the electorate of Swan and sit down and listen to the noise in some local homes."

The ANEF system was developed in 1980.

"It has long been my view that ANEF should not be used as the standard noise indicator for planning purposes in Australia as it is outdated and underestimates real noise in the community." A noise insulation program has been completed in Sydney and Adelaide, with 4,730 homes and 106 other buildings near their airports insulated for $470 million.

A similar scheme in Perth would include about 2,000 homes and public buildings and cost about $250 million which would be paid for by a levy on air tickets.

"It would just cost $5 a ticket for five years," Mr Irons said.

"Everyone - industry, airport and government - need to be working together on this".

Perth Airport chief executive Brad Geatches said the airport was committed to working with community representatives, local government authorities, airlines, air traffic controllers and relevant government agencies to manage aircraft noise.

"We are working closely with Airservices Australia and the recently appointed Aircraft Noise Ombudsman to ensure that Perth residents are engaged in aircraft noise issues and that appropriate responses are put in place," Mr Geatches said.
I hope all you chaps are noise-abating to 3000ft...
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Old 3rd Mar 2011, 00:24
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I hope all you chaps are noise-abating to 3000ft
Which procedure are most pilots using ? NADP 1 or NADP 2 ?
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Old 3rd Mar 2011, 00:48
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I hope all you chaps are noise-abating to 3000ft...
and mast-abating if there is a tall yacht in the creek...
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Old 3rd Mar 2011, 03:42
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Which procedure are most pilots using ? NADP 1 or NADP 2 ?
Neither. In fact, I dunno what they are. I Don't have ICAO bla bla on my 'puter.

We use the AIP alternative.
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Old 3rd Mar 2011, 04:12
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What ICAO bla bla on the 'puter ?

We don't have that either
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Old 3rd Mar 2011, 04:41
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Well in that case John what do you mean by NADP 1 or 2? I am aware that those terms are mentioned in AIP but I don't know what they mean. I assumed, since you asked us if we are using them, you actually knew what they meant.
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Old 3rd Mar 2011, 09:50
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Hang on...

Nah, I think we better have a aircraft noise levy for this. Paid by all annually except those affected by noise.
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Old 4th Mar 2011, 01:17
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Some interesting numbers in that article.
4,730 homes and 106 other buildings near their airports insulated for $470 million
$470 million on 4 836 homes/buildings is $97 000 each.
2,000 homes and public buildings and cost about $250 million
At $125 000 each.
Granted some of the other buildings would be schools, office blocks etc, but doesn't that seem a little high? Or is it a case of $5 000 worth of double glazing, $20 000 profit for 'installers' and $100 000 in 'admin costs'?

As a comparison, ASA revenue last year was $805 million.
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Old 4th Apr 2011, 23:01
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The end of an era... the old tower came down a few days ago and is now just a distant memory...



Bring on taxiway Alpha!
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