Qantas to Purchase and Grow WA Charter Operator
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Another advantage that they will get is a nice new hangar on the west coast to carry out 'A' checks and the like on the 737 fleet, saves rotating them back east for checks along with the hassles that go with it....
very strategic move by the red rat on all fronts and i'm sure that engineering will also be very happy.....
very strategic move by the red rat on all fronts and i'm sure that engineering will also be very happy.....
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This one might throw a spanner in the works...!
Risky business this FIFO stuff..
Population Minister Tony Burke considers measures to reduce fly-in, fly-out workers | Perth Now
Employers urged to stop fly-in fly-out
Population spread out of kilter - Minister
Ban on city fringe estates being considered
A UNION leader wants tax concessions for giant miners to end the damaging practice of flying workers in and out of projects rather than setting them up in local housing.
Australian Workers' Union national secretary Paul Howes believes a lower regional rate in the fringe benefits tax (FBT) would encourage mining companies to provide accommodation for workers and their families.
The FBT is paid on employer-provided housing.
Reducing the use of fly-in, fly-out rosters would create regional centres, keep more of the income from mining in the local region, and be an incentive to sign on to work in labour starved projects, Mr Howes told news.com.au.
Thousands of workers operating Australia's biggest mining projects in Queensland and Western Australia fly in for shifts of up to, for example, 10 days straight, and then fly out to return home for a week before repeating the travel.
But Mr Howes said the system wasn't popular because it took workers away from their families for long periods.
There also are complaints that while the miners earn big salaries, they spend the money at home in Sydney, Melbourne or Perth and not locally where they work.
Population Minister Tony Burke has called fly-in, fly-out "possibly the best example of how the distribution of our population in Australia has become so far out of kilter".
"When fly-in, fly-out has effectively become the only option for many people wanting to work in those regions, it means we haven't planned the distribution of people across Australia well enough," Mr Burke said today, launching independent reports on population growth.
The Government will consider the problems with fly-in, fly-out operations as it prepares a response to the reports, scheduled for April.
Mr Burke said he also would be looking at the impact of a higher population growth on the liveability of cities which already have congestion problems.
There are fears that a fast-growing population would worsen problems in cities caused by congestion and lack of public facilities such as hospitals.
Mr Burke today acknowledged there were many city dwellers "who discovered they no longer had half an hour of daylight at the end of the day after a long commute home".
He called for improved urban design which moved people closer to their jobs, and upgraded transport systems.
The Minister said he wanted to "avoid the continued creation of dormitory suburbs", which would of itself "have a massive impact on congestion".
"But let's not forget: When you have good urban planning, every local job is a car off the road," said Mr Burke.
"As long as you have situations where we have a long distance between where the jobs are and where the homes are, you necessarily put more pressure on people with traffic."
Mr Burke said there would be increasing development of "master planned communities" which would have affordable housing, parklands and "availability of local jobs".
"We always talk about it in terms of the time you spend in traffic. That's actually not the worst of it. The worst of it is the time you don't spend at home," he said.
The report of one panel, headed by Heather Ridout, CEO of the employer organisation the Australian Industry Group, said an increased population would provide the funding and the incentive to make cities more livable.
However, another panel, headed by former New South Wales Premier Bob Carr, said a growing population would put greater demands on transport systems and worsening congestion which was "lengthening working hours and unfavourably tilting the work/life balance".
The Government will not set immigration targets and the annual intake would be set with the Budget, said Mr Burke.
Employers urged to stop fly-in fly-out
Population spread out of kilter - Minister
Ban on city fringe estates being considered
A UNION leader wants tax concessions for giant miners to end the damaging practice of flying workers in and out of projects rather than setting them up in local housing.
Australian Workers' Union national secretary Paul Howes believes a lower regional rate in the fringe benefits tax (FBT) would encourage mining companies to provide accommodation for workers and their families.
The FBT is paid on employer-provided housing.
Reducing the use of fly-in, fly-out rosters would create regional centres, keep more of the income from mining in the local region, and be an incentive to sign on to work in labour starved projects, Mr Howes told news.com.au.
Thousands of workers operating Australia's biggest mining projects in Queensland and Western Australia fly in for shifts of up to, for example, 10 days straight, and then fly out to return home for a week before repeating the travel.
But Mr Howes said the system wasn't popular because it took workers away from their families for long periods.
There also are complaints that while the miners earn big salaries, they spend the money at home in Sydney, Melbourne or Perth and not locally where they work.
Population Minister Tony Burke has called fly-in, fly-out "possibly the best example of how the distribution of our population in Australia has become so far out of kilter".
"When fly-in, fly-out has effectively become the only option for many people wanting to work in those regions, it means we haven't planned the distribution of people across Australia well enough," Mr Burke said today, launching independent reports on population growth.
The Government will consider the problems with fly-in, fly-out operations as it prepares a response to the reports, scheduled for April.
Mr Burke said he also would be looking at the impact of a higher population growth on the liveability of cities which already have congestion problems.
There are fears that a fast-growing population would worsen problems in cities caused by congestion and lack of public facilities such as hospitals.
Mr Burke today acknowledged there were many city dwellers "who discovered they no longer had half an hour of daylight at the end of the day after a long commute home".
He called for improved urban design which moved people closer to their jobs, and upgraded transport systems.
The Minister said he wanted to "avoid the continued creation of dormitory suburbs", which would of itself "have a massive impact on congestion".
"But let's not forget: When you have good urban planning, every local job is a car off the road," said Mr Burke.
"As long as you have situations where we have a long distance between where the jobs are and where the homes are, you necessarily put more pressure on people with traffic."
Mr Burke said there would be increasing development of "master planned communities" which would have affordable housing, parklands and "availability of local jobs".
"We always talk about it in terms of the time you spend in traffic. That's actually not the worst of it. The worst of it is the time you don't spend at home," he said.
The report of one panel, headed by Heather Ridout, CEO of the employer organisation the Australian Industry Group, said an increased population would provide the funding and the incentive to make cities more livable.
However, another panel, headed by former New South Wales Premier Bob Carr, said a growing population would put greater demands on transport systems and worsening congestion which was "lengthening working hours and unfavourably tilting the work/life balance".
The Government will not set immigration targets and the annual intake would be set with the Budget, said Mr Burke.
You might be able to entice people to coastal towns but I would suggest you would be hard pressed to find 10 000+ people who want to live in Newman/Paraburdoo/Telfer etc permanently. 45+ Degree summers make it none the more inviting. Power bills, Housing etc would all have to be subsidised, and you would have to pay people alot of money to get them there in the first instance. It's not like you can knock off work and head to the beach when you're living in Newman. FIFO, whilst not ideal is probably the best of a bad choice really.
Not quite sure what the logic behind Tony Burke's thinking is here.
FIFO, whilst not ideal is probably the best of a bad choice really. Not quite sure what the logic behind Tony Burke's thinking is here.
Nev, it's been done before. That's why PBO, ZNE and Tom Price actually exist. Sure, hot in summer, but with today's technology, it'd just be like DRW but without the stinking humidity. Keep the single yobbos out with family subsidies. Oh hang on, that's why remote towns died in the first place. The economic rationalists wouldn't accept a bit of contra-economic practicality.
short flights long nights
I lived in Newman whhen it was a town and a community, FIFO has been the death of the North West.
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FIFO is supply-side economics
SOPS,
Unfortunately, FIFO was the product of demand for human capital far outstripping local supply and was the only practical incentive for a reluctant workforce. The people who designed it were not interested in social outcomes - they were interested only in profit. FIFO costs a fraction of fully-subsidised local infrastructure and there is no legal accountability for regional demise.
Unfortunately, it is the same economic mechanism that created the new "cadet" pilot schemes - there will not be too much accountability being accorded to the architects of those schemes down the track when the true costs are revealed.
Stay Alive
Unfortunately, FIFO was the product of demand for human capital far outstripping local supply and was the only practical incentive for a reluctant workforce. The people who designed it were not interested in social outcomes - they were interested only in profit. FIFO costs a fraction of fully-subsidised local infrastructure and there is no legal accountability for regional demise.
Unfortunately, it is the same economic mechanism that created the new "cadet" pilot schemes - there will not be too much accountability being accorded to the architects of those schemes down the track when the true costs are revealed.
Stay Alive
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With the correct subsidies and facilities places like Tom Price and Newman do/can and will thrive.
Queensland is not as reliant on FIFO as WA and they have some very big towns based around mining.
Last edited by Monopole; 20th Dec 2010 at 01:58.
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Go ask your good wife and kids if they would like to move to +45 heat, cyclones, away from families, flies, no amenities etc etc
And i suppose the good minister expects the mining companies to pay for all the upgrades and infrastructure at these towns to support the families.
Companies are struggling these days to recruit people. Force people to live up here and half of them wont survive.
Nope, wont happen, never will.
And i suppose the good minister expects the mining companies to pay for all the upgrades and infrastructure at these towns to support the families.
Companies are struggling these days to recruit people. Force people to live up here and half of them wont survive.
Nope, wont happen, never will.
Cpt Bloggs the problem now is that you are looking at a much higher population than was envisaged for those towns. I doubt you can find the volume of people required who are willing to live in those areas permanently without starting up a whole immigration scheme.
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Go ask your good wife and kids if they would like to move to +45 heat, cyclones, away from families, flies, no amenities etc etc
It takes all tyes of people to make the world spin, and there will be a large number of families who will prefer to live in a regional centre if it means dad (or mum) comes home every night.
Cpt Bloggs the problem now is that you are looking at a much higher population than was envisaged for those towns. I doubt you can find the volume of people required who are willing to live in those areas permanently without starting up a whole immigration scheme.
Im not suggesting to can FIFO completely. Sh!t, my and my wifes livelyhood rely on it. But maybe entice some of the workers to live locally and FIFO the others. Kalgoolie, Mt Isa Gladstone, Newcastle amongst others are examples of big towns that are centred around the rescource industry with locally employed workers.
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It has all been tried before, what happens when the gold/silver/iron ore runs out? The mine closes down, the town dies then every body has to move anyways. FIFO is a more economical for all concerned.
What about BHP's investment in Ravensthorp? Many a CEO will be gun shy after that little disaster. I have to agree with Sleeve of Wizard. Towns like PBO, NWN, KTA, PHD etc have a mix of people who live in and love the town and those who prefer the FIFO lifestyle. The current mix seems to attract sufficient numbers of people. Forcing it one way or the other I think would cause more problems than it solves.
One positive aspect of less FIFO though is that it would clean the Q Club of much of the bogan factor.
One positive aspect of less FIFO though is that it would clean the Q Club of much of the bogan factor.
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It has all been tried before, what happens when the gold/silver/iron ore runs out?
Oh come on Mr Hat! BHP has taken 50 years to chew thru half of Mt Whaleback. Only another 50 years to go. The is so much iron ore in the Pilbara that the aforementioned outfits will be flying Fokker 350s, Embraer 500s and Boeing 7-13-7s before it all runs out. 
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Maybe the gummint can consider forcing the hand of land release issues. There is a lottery for it in Hedland. There is huge demand but the prices get skyrocketed by the fact that there is always less on offer than what is demanded. C'mon folks, look at the amount of open land around Hedland! How can there possibly be a shortage?! It is entirely manufactured for the benefit of those who can profit from the completely outrageous housing/land related prices.
The trouble with a lot of these places now is that the real cost of living prices are allowed to go so high (pure money grabbing greed spiral) that it ensures the only people who can afford to live there are mine related high income/FIFO types - average folks just can't afford to live in those conditions. It further dooms the town to a somewhat disfunctional FIFO style of town.
What goes up must go down... Sometime the resources boom won't be a boom no more. One has to wonder what regional WA will look like when that time comes...
The trouble with a lot of these places now is that the real cost of living prices are allowed to go so high (pure money grabbing greed spiral) that it ensures the only people who can afford to live there are mine related high income/FIFO types - average folks just can't afford to live in those conditions. It further dooms the town to a somewhat disfunctional FIFO style of town.
What goes up must go down... Sometime the resources boom won't be a boom no more. One has to wonder what regional WA will look like when that time comes...
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Massive growth for Network.
Strong words from Allan Joyce about the QF purchase of Network and future intentions from The Australian's Steve Creedy article this morning.
Seems the man is in no two minds about the FIFO sector. A Strategic master move by the White Kangaroo. "Strategic" being the operative word.. he did mention defence contracts...
Qantas to extend fly-in operations | The Australian
Steve Creedy From: The Australian December 29, 2010 12:00AM
QANTAS is seeking new Fokker 100 aircraft to boost its Perth-based fly-in, fly-out operation and has warned rivals it is planning expansion.
The airline paid about $30 million for Network Aviation this month and sees it as a strategic addition to its portfolio of businesses.
It intends to take the business beyond Western Australia and is looking at potential growth opportunities such as defence charters.
Central to this will be the expansion of Network's fleet of two 100-seat Fokker 100 jet aircraft and six 30-seat Embraer turboprops.
"We're actively looking at a large number of aircraft," Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce said. "We didn't buy Network just to keep it the same size; we bought that with the potential to grow that massively over the next few years."
Mr Joyce said Qantas had attempted to get into charter work in its own right but the aircraft in its fleet were too expensive to be left sitting around waiting for charter opportunities.
He said Network was a good venture for Qantas because of its presence in Western Australia and its infrastructure at Perth's congested airport.
He said the F100s were the aircraft of choice for the FIFO market and were operated by Alliance Airlines and Skywest.
"They're aircraft the fly-in/fly-out market is actually used to," he said. "There are plenty of aircraft available out there and the aircraft have a low capital cost. So when you're talking about low utilisation the business model makes sense."
Seems the man is in no two minds about the FIFO sector. A Strategic master move by the White Kangaroo. "Strategic" being the operative word.. he did mention defence contracts...
Qantas to extend fly-in operations | The Australian
Steve Creedy From: The Australian December 29, 2010 12:00AM
QANTAS is seeking new Fokker 100 aircraft to boost its Perth-based fly-in, fly-out operation and has warned rivals it is planning expansion.
The airline paid about $30 million for Network Aviation this month and sees it as a strategic addition to its portfolio of businesses.
It intends to take the business beyond Western Australia and is looking at potential growth opportunities such as defence charters.
Central to this will be the expansion of Network's fleet of two 100-seat Fokker 100 jet aircraft and six 30-seat Embraer turboprops.
"We're actively looking at a large number of aircraft," Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce said. "We didn't buy Network just to keep it the same size; we bought that with the potential to grow that massively over the next few years."
Mr Joyce said Qantas had attempted to get into charter work in its own right but the aircraft in its fleet were too expensive to be left sitting around waiting for charter opportunities.
He said Network was a good venture for Qantas because of its presence in Western Australia and its infrastructure at Perth's congested airport.
He said the F100s were the aircraft of choice for the FIFO market and were operated by Alliance Airlines and Skywest.
"They're aircraft the fly-in/fly-out market is actually used to," he said. "There are plenty of aircraft available out there and the aircraft have a low capital cost. So when you're talking about low utilisation the business model makes sense."