Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

QF17 to Argentina Turnback

Old 15th Nov 2010, 01:55
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QF17 to Argentina Turnback

Qantas plane returning mid-flight, dumping fuel | Stuff.co.nz
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 02:01
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At least it's not a Roller B744 so it gives RR a bit of slack as far as the media is concerned. The pax load is a worry though.
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 02:47
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Smoke in the cockpit! When will it end. Lucky again. Better that it happens near the beginning of the flight than when it is down near the pole. Scary stuff.
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 03:19
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Qantas seem to be having their fair share in incidents. Not just over the last few weeks but dating back a couple of years now. Did they change maintainence programs a few years or something? Is this the effect of those changes?

(sorry for any sp? mistakes)
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 03:27
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Qantas flight turns back to Sydney
Paul Tatnell and Glenda Kwek
November 15, 2010 - 2:47PM

A Qantas plane en route to Argentina has been forced to return to Sydney after an electrical problem led to smoke in the cockpit, the fifth in-flight or pre-flight incident since an engine failure on a Singapore-bound A380 flight 11 days ago.


QF17, which took off from Sydney Airport at 11.11am today with 199 passengers on board, turned back about an hour into the flight to Buenos Aires, a Qantas spokeswoman said.
Advertisement: Story continues below

A friend of one of the passengers said the pilot announced there was smoke coming from the instrument panel.

A Qantas spokesman confirmed an electrical problem had caused the smoke.

The Boeing 747-400, with three flight and 18 cabin crew, touched down safely at Sydney Airport at 1.22pm after priority clearance to land was given by air traffic control, a Qantas spokesman said.

"Engineers are inspecting the aircraft to determine the cause of the issue. Passengers have disembarked into the terminal building," the spokesman said.

"Reports that the aircraft lost pressure in the main cabin are incorrect. Oxygen supply to the cabin was unaffected."

The spokesman said the incident was reported to the Civil Aviation Safety Authority and the Air Transport Safety Bureau.

"Qantas regrets the inconvenience to passengers and will seek to make contingency arrangements for those affected."

A replacement flight would leave Sydney at 5pm, the spokesman said.

On Saturday, a missing screw delayed a Qantas flight from Sydney to Melbourne by an hour, while a QantasLink flight to Sydney from Coffs Harbour was delayed by five hours after a warning light indicated a problem with the engines as it came in to land.
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Any body else heard about sinapore airlines as well this morning had a problem? also rumors a ml-syd flight had a warning light and returned back to ml
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 04:00
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from news.com

Qantas flight 17 turns back to Sydney en route to Buenos Aires | News.com.au

The captain advised passengers that there was an electrical failure on the main control panel, which Ms Sanhueza said was expelling smoke into the cabin pit.
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 04:27
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A friend of one of the passengers said the pilot announced there was smoke coming from the instrument panel.
Without specific reference to this incident & of a generalised nature.

I have maintained for some time, we (as pilots) are telling the folks on board too much about issues thay may or may not understand.

Unless it's glaringly obvious to the passengers, I simply use the terms:

a. "in the interest of safety we will be........"
b. "we have a technical issue so we will be.........."
c. "we have an indication in the flightdeck so we will be.........."
d. "our engineers are working on a minor issue so we will be..........."

In nearly 20 years of airline flying, I have never had a passenger want more specific information after a generalised PA about a technical issue.

What I am quite specific about is, how they as passengers will be affected. How long the delay is, what we are doing about their connecting flights, what time they will be getting to their destination & that we are dealing with the problem as expeditiously as possible. And most importantly it's in the interest of their safety.

And we wonder why wer'e all getting a bad wrap in the press about issues that are mostly inconsequential.

MC
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 04:32
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SMH report

SMH has a report here though it is full of sensational passenger quotes.

I'm already sceptical about the press reports. For example:
A friend of one of the passengers said the pilot announced there was smoke coming from the instrument panel.
appear true EXCEPT as it appears early in the article, you might assume the passengers knew that during the flight. However if you sieve through the SMH article, it seems passengers weren't informed about the "smoke coming from the instrument panel" until after the flight landed and even then, only by "the captain" coming through the cabin to announce it - stopping every "10 metres".

Sounds more like the PA was out. Also looks like a lack of information freaked some passengers out.
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 04:36
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Sounds like the quoted news.com passenger was well prepared & provisioned for the incident- or given recent events are Catering bulk loading chill pills??

"I had to take some pills to call me down.
What's it like when those pills start 'calling'......??, I'd give the buggers up, & I'd watch for that pit Fris- it's hard to see as it has filled with smoke.

S28-BE

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Old 15th Nov 2010, 04:38
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The "friend of the passenger" is a hardly credible source of what was or wasn't said in the announcement. I personally doubt that an alarmist announcement like this would be made .
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 05:08
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A Qantas plane en route to Argentina has been forced to return to Sydney after an electrical problem led to smoke in the cockpit, the fifth in-flight or pre-flight incident since an engine failure on a Singapore-bound A380 flight 11 days ago.

QF17, which took off from Sydney Airport at 11.11am today with 199 passengers on board, turned back about an hour into the flight to Buenos Aires, a Qantas spokeswoman said.

A friend of one of the passengers said the pilot announced there was smoke coming from the instrument panel.

A Qantas spokesman confirmed an electrical problem had caused the smoke.

Passenger Teague Czislowski, a Sydney lawyer, said fellow travellers became concerned when they noticed fuel coming out of the wings.

"About an hour into the flight we suddenly did a 180-degree turn and you could see the wing section and while it looked like there was smoke coming out of it, it was actually the fuel dump taking place," he said.

Electrics out

"The first thing you noticed was then the electrics going out. There was no lights, no entertainment, only the emergency panels were on."

Mr Czislowski said the flight then headed towards Sydney and circled Botany Bay for "what seemed like ages so they could keep dumping fuel".

He said passengers had not been told why there were returning.

"I have on my watch an altimeter and it had shown they had fully depressurised the cabin," he said.

"As we came in to land you didn't hear the normal electrical sounds when they activate the landing gear but you could hear something, like they were manually doing it.

"We were pretty bloody concerned and they did tell us it would be all OK, but we weren't sure. There were no electrics and you really wondered whether they were flying the plane OK."

The plane landed "very smoothly", Mr Czislowski said, but only then did passengers realise the "seriousness of it all".

Mr Czislowski, who was heading to Brazil for a wedding, said passengers celebrated and some even hissed once the flight landed.

Met by fire engines

"We were waiting on the tarmac and ... then we were met by all the fire engines and fire brigade, there were reams and reams of them, and then we realised something major must have happened," he said.

"We then pulled up and told to say in our seats and ... then the captain came through the cabin stopping at 10-metre intervals so people could hear.

"He explained that they took off and everything was fine. They finished their ascent and everything was fine and then smoke started coming out of their flight control at their panel upfront and that's when they knew there was some problem.

"They then went straight into emergency procedures and a series of tests."

Mr Czislowski said the latest Qantas mishap "is a disgrace".

"Excuse my French, but this is just another Qantas f--- up - that is what the QF probably stands for," he said.

"Questions from the passengers were whether maintenance crews were putting all their attention into [the problems with the] A-380s and this is why it happened.

"But, whatever it is, it's ridiculous. It is simply unacceptable and a lot of people were saying I just will stop flying Qantas."

Touch down

The Boeing 747-400, with three flight and 18 cabin crew, touched down safely at Sydney Airport at 1.22pm after priority clearance to land was given by air traffic control, a Qantas spokesman said.

"Engineers are inspecting the aircraft to determine the cause of the issue. Passengers have disembarked into the terminal building," the spokesman said.

"Reports that the aircraft lost pressure in the main cabin are incorrect. Oxygen supply to the cabin was unaffected."

The spokesman said the incident was reported to the Civil Aviation Safety Authority and the Air Transport Safety Bureau.

"Qantas regrets the inconvenience to passengers and will seek to make contingency arrangements for those affected."

A replacement flight would leave Sydney at 5pm, the spokesman said.

On Saturday, a missing screw delayed a Qantas flight from Sydney to Melbourne by an hour, while a QantasLink flight to Sydney from Coffs Harbour was delayed by five hours after a warning light indicated a problem with the engines as it came in to land.

On Friday, Melbourne-bound QF768 returned to Perth after flight crew noticed a vibration in the No.1 engine of the Boeing 767.

All of Qantas's Airbus A380s remain grounded after the November 4 midair engine explosion on QF32 from Singapore to Sydney. Both Qantas and Rolls Royce, the maker of the Trent 900 engine, are investigating the incident.

The following day, a Boeing 747-400 plane departing from Singapore and heading for Sydney had to turn back after a "contained engine failure".

Qantas's chief executive Alan Joyce defended the Australian airline's safety record during its 90th anniversary celebrations on Saturday.

"Hundreds if not thousands of these type of things would happen on airlines around the world every year," he said when asked about the incident involving QF768.

It is not known when the A380s will be cleared to fly again.

Qantas shares fell 5 cents immediately after news about this latest incident broke, but regained some of their value later.
Source: Qantas flight QF17 from Sydney to Buenos Aires turns back

Mr Czislowski is qualified - he has an altimeter in his watch!!!
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 05:48
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Investigation: AO-2010-095 - Smoke event - Boeing 747-438, VH-OEI, near Sydney Aerodrome NSW, 15 November 2010

that was quick "During the climb, the crew detected smoke in the cockpit. The crew donned oxygen and conducted an emergency descent. The aircraft returned to Sydney after dumping fuel. The investigation is continuing.
A report has not yet been released for this investigation."
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 05:52
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The ""If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going"" crowd are strangely quiet.
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 07:27
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Another QF media success...........not

Chris Reason's story on 7 was factual and authorative ...even a verified recording of the ATC comms .........followed by dear little Olivia with yet another uniformed, ignorant comment on technical, procedural and ATC matters. (sadly she also missed mentioning the thronmister)

How much longer can this company continue to put up an inarticulate, uniformed arrogant spokesperson who KNOWS NOTHING and makes the pilots and crew look bigger fools than the Exec Management.

Send her back to Joe Hockey's office or shuffling paper at the Tourism Task Force.

oh BTW......Where was little commander dodgy today...........dodging the hard questions yet again.

cue the kids choir
AT
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 07:44
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......compare this with the 7:30 Report.

No Olivia......

Capt Woodward,Harbison and AJ.....good job. Clear, succinct and non emotive.

The clanger though was ....."it could be weeks, months 'till the A380 gets back in the air".

Agree with Harbisons view on RR......they've come out of this looking very shabby
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 07:53
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RR have come out of this looking very shabby........

So We'll order a few hundred more for the 787.......

Yet another incompetent decision from Qf management.
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 08:13
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Another QF media success...........not
a lot of people were saying I just will stop flying Qantas
Excuse my French, but this is just another Qantas f--- up - that is what the QF probably stands for

And there is the crux of the matter!

It doesn't matter if the press are being sensationalist. It doesn't matter if the passengers have no idea of the technical issues and are talking absolute rubbish (funny as it is). It doesn't matter if the problems are mostly minor in nature & safety was never compromised. It doesn't matter if these sorts of things happen every day somewhere around the world.

What matters is that public perception is starting to change. And perception is everything because what a person perceives is their reality, regardless of whether it is true or not. It seems to be basic human nature to immediately believe the worst, no matter how good the history has been. If the public start to believe that Qantas is unsafe, then management have a serious issue. A very serious issue!

Senior management these days seem have no idea how quickly & easily an impecable reputation can be tarnished, or just how important that reputation actually is to the business. It appears that short term, bonus based thinking is what is being taught at business school these days & the cancer is spreading fast. Cost saving is the 'in' mantra. What they don't comprehend or conveniently ignore, is that the fall from the top can be amazingly fast & the damage done so severe, that it can take decades to regain that enviable position again.
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 08:23
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It doesn't matter if the problems are mostly minor in nature & safety was never compromised. It doesn't matter if these sorts of things happen every day somewhere around the world.
I am not sure how often problems such as these are happening around the world. But I know that this is a new paradigm that has developed within qf over the last few years.
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 08:25
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JB over at Vb must be loving this.

But seriously is this normal for a fleet of qfs size to have so many problems. Vb has half the planes but have not had any noticeable incidents in a while.

I guess VB keep a new fleet and this is why but 4 problems in 2 weeks? plus the SFO, Manila, A330 dive. These are all very serious. Some airlines like Lufhthansa have 4 times the fleet but never so many major problems. Or do they?
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 08:28
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Devil Why......

.......are foreign airlines protected species?

Today an SQ service returned to Sydney. Why hasn't this been reported by the mainstream media and the reasons for the return? SQ212 initially departed at 0915, returned at 1145 and then made a second departure at 1230. (Times from SACL website).

Obviously, their passengers were not in fear of their lives.
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