ATC Staff Shortages?
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These 'staff shortages' have been going on for years - it must be 7 years at least.
If controllers are doing enough overtime to keep things ticking over for the past 7 years (with the odd TIBA) it would seem that maybe there are only staff shortages in some peoples eyes.
Maybe the system is working just how management want it to. If people are willing to waste their lives doing overtime - who cares let them do it. That is the system and many Aussie ATC's think the overtime is just fine.
If controllers are doing enough overtime to keep things ticking over for the past 7 years (with the odd TIBA) it would seem that maybe there are only staff shortages in some peoples eyes.
Maybe the system is working just how management want it to. If people are willing to waste their lives doing overtime - who cares let them do it. That is the system and many Aussie ATC's think the overtime is just fine.
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Baileys,
The system is not being held together just by overtime. There have been a number of policies put in place in the last couple of years, without which would have caused an airspace closure or a NOTAM issued identifying possible delays and restrictions.
Closures have been minimised through the "Short Break Procedure" where a controller may leave the operational position, to go to the toilet or eat something, as long as they leave written instructions for an unqualified person (usually a supervisor) to hold the fort until their return, and not to do anything outside of those instructions. The controller generally needs to pick a time where there is little chance of something happening. CASA has approved this. Previously, a NOTAM would be issued notifying TIBA for the period of the break, and all would be known by all parties well in advance.
Traffic management (delays, restrictions) still occur but instead of NOTAMing delays and restrictions due staff shortage or "staff availability", traffic is diverted or slowed down without any NOTAM or reason give. The practice of controllers who transmit the reasons for the delays (lack of staff) is frowned upon.
Other ways to avoid closures is to "reinterpret" the minimum time off between shifts, and acquittal hours due fatigue issues, thus maximising coverage where previously coverage wasn't possible.
The system is not being held together just by overtime. There have been a number of policies put in place in the last couple of years, without which would have caused an airspace closure or a NOTAM issued identifying possible delays and restrictions.
Closures have been minimised through the "Short Break Procedure" where a controller may leave the operational position, to go to the toilet or eat something, as long as they leave written instructions for an unqualified person (usually a supervisor) to hold the fort until their return, and not to do anything outside of those instructions. The controller generally needs to pick a time where there is little chance of something happening. CASA has approved this. Previously, a NOTAM would be issued notifying TIBA for the period of the break, and all would be known by all parties well in advance.
Traffic management (delays, restrictions) still occur but instead of NOTAMing delays and restrictions due staff shortage or "staff availability", traffic is diverted or slowed down without any NOTAM or reason give. The practice of controllers who transmit the reasons for the delays (lack of staff) is frowned upon.
Other ways to avoid closures is to "reinterpret" the minimum time off between shifts, and acquittal hours due fatigue issues, thus maximising coverage where previously coverage wasn't possible.
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All those points are valid to a degree, but honestly how long would the system last if every ATC stopped taking AD's/OT?
Must go, 'private number' is calling.....
Join Date: May 2009
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Seeing as polls are the flavour of the minute:-
Mods, how about the following poll:-
If ATC stop AD/ED to cover essential services:-
Options for Pilots:-
1. Will you whine when you are held on the bay or elsewhere?
2. Will you cheer, and tell the punters in the tube behind you why it is so?
3. Will you blame ATC (to the punters down the back) for the delay, like so many Aircrew do, irrespective of why the late departure?
4. Will you shut the f$%k up and say nothing for fear of airline management reprisal?
Let's not be shy with responses eh .... there are numerous ATC's travelling every day listening to the PA's!
Mods, how about the following poll:-
If ATC stop AD/ED to cover essential services:-
Options for Pilots:-
1. Will you whine when you are held on the bay or elsewhere?
2. Will you cheer, and tell the punters in the tube behind you why it is so?
3. Will you blame ATC (to the punters down the back) for the delay, like so many Aircrew do, irrespective of why the late departure?
4. Will you shut the f$%k up and say nothing for fear of airline management reprisal?
Let's not be shy with responses eh .... there are numerous ATC's travelling every day listening to the PA's!
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They should tell the Truth..............
Ladies and gentlemen, this is Captain Bloggs(
) speaking, thank you for flying #### today, we would like to tell you we are pushing back on time, however due to ATC staff shortages there are delays which are unavoidable for now and the next 18 months or longer until the ASA management employ suuficient ATCers to provide the services that our airline and you the passengers pay for. If you feel somewhat disadvantaged, and we as an airline do as it costs us $millions, we would encourage you to write to the CEO of ASA with copies to the minister and your local federal member.
If you would like some material for your letters please visit pprune dot org D&G for suggestions.
And thank you for flying Q/V/J/T
Ladies and gentlemen, this is Captain Bloggs(
) speaking, thank you for flying #### today, we would like to tell you we are pushing back on time, however due to ATC staff shortages there are delays which are unavoidable for now and the next 18 months or longer until the ASA management employ suuficient ATCers to provide the services that our airline and you the passengers pay for. If you feel somewhat disadvantaged, and we as an airline do as it costs us $millions, we would encourage you to write to the CEO of ASA with copies to the minister and your local federal member.If you would like some material for your letters please visit pprune dot org D&G for suggestions.
And thank you for flying Q/V/J/T
Join Date: Mar 2009
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ATC Academy
I for one just finished 54 weeks of ATC training at the Academy and I am glad to inform you that 5 students in my course have passed into field training. I, unfortunately, am not one of them. Despite being told that I was in the 'top half' of the group. Despite only ever really having one instructor sit between 2 trainees for the final 3 weeks of training. Despite having instructor feedback that always said, "busy run handled well". It seems that it is imperative to 'learn your airspace' and to 'account for aircraft performance' so that you are not giving requirements to aircraft that are:
a) not possible
b) so far inside aircraft profile performance that it would seem ridiculous.
Oh, but here's the catch. Don't do it in an exam, because then you are deemed NOT SUITABLE FOR FIELD TRAINING.
May sound like sour grapes, not really. More
angry at the fact that after all the sacrifices, all the development, having demonstrated day in, day out that I COULD do this job, I am now heaved out the door with 2 weeks pay, on the dole, with a family of 5 to feed, despite no aircraft getting anywhere near each other.
But, hey, they're the experts.
a) not possible
b) so far inside aircraft profile performance that it would seem ridiculous.
Oh, but here's the catch. Don't do it in an exam, because then you are deemed NOT SUITABLE FOR FIELD TRAINING.
May sound like sour grapes, not really. More
angry at the fact that after all the sacrifices, all the development, having demonstrated day in, day out that I COULD do this job, I am now heaved out the door with 2 weeks pay, on the dole, with a family of 5 to feed, despite no aircraft getting anywhere near each other. But, hey, they're the experts.
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Mr Twister,
Where have you demonstrated 'day in day out' that you could 'do the job'? In the training college?
Were you guaranteed a job at the end of your training or subject to achieving all milestones?
If you'd done a bit of research prior to entering the college you may have not taken the risk you did.
Choices mate & the Golden Rule.
Having said that, if the bank teller training expert had been subject to ANY KPI's that happen in the real world, things may have been done years ago to rectify the situation Mr Twister describes.
Where have you demonstrated 'day in day out' that you could 'do the job'? In the training college?
Were you guaranteed a job at the end of your training or subject to achieving all milestones?
If you'd done a bit of research prior to entering the college you may have not taken the risk you did.
Choices mate & the Golden Rule.
Having said that, if the bank teller training expert had been subject to ANY KPI's that happen in the real world, things may have been done years ago to rectify the situation Mr Twister describes.
Join Date: Mar 2009
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To retort,
I demonstrated day in, day out, that I could complete the runs with no issues recognised or referred to by the instructors which suggests I was not experiencing any ongoing areas of concern. I can't demonstrate competency in a job I haven't experienced yet. All I could do was perform at a level relevant to the program presented to me.
Secondly, no a job was not guaranteed, milestone completion was required. Having said that, our contract included DTI, Non radar and Radar milestones. No mention of Combined Ops which was added to the official assessment in the meantime.
Thirdly, I did my research, the Academy commitment was apparently 42 weeks which then, upon satisfactory completion, progressed to a significant payrise in Field training. However, half way through training, the structure was changed which blew our time in the Academy to about 54 weeks. I had calculated (financially) for a 42 week drop in pay, the extra 3 months was a killer. Having been told I was progressing well, I resigned from my job to cash in on leave entitlements so we could financially survive the extra Academy time.
So, yes, that was a bad move as no job was guaranteed but it was not a result of poor planning or lack of research.
Not having a go Jack, just a little disappointed and bewildered.
I demonstrated day in, day out, that I could complete the runs with no issues recognised or referred to by the instructors which suggests I was not experiencing any ongoing areas of concern. I can't demonstrate competency in a job I haven't experienced yet. All I could do was perform at a level relevant to the program presented to me.
Secondly, no a job was not guaranteed, milestone completion was required. Having said that, our contract included DTI, Non radar and Radar milestones. No mention of Combined Ops which was added to the official assessment in the meantime.
Thirdly, I did my research, the Academy commitment was apparently 42 weeks which then, upon satisfactory completion, progressed to a significant payrise in Field training. However, half way through training, the structure was changed which blew our time in the Academy to about 54 weeks. I had calculated (financially) for a 42 week drop in pay, the extra 3 months was a killer. Having been told I was progressing well, I resigned from my job to cash in on leave entitlements so we could financially survive the extra Academy time.
So, yes, that was a bad move as no job was guaranteed but it was not a result of poor planning or lack of research.
Not having a go Jack, just a little disappointed and bewildered.
Mr Twister,
Unfortunately, your experience falls within the "ASA works in mysterious ways ... expect the unexpected" mission statement.
You have obviously done your best ... they just weren't that into you.
However, I daresay you've learnt a lot and are better off for the experience. It's time to exercise your newfound skills , knowledge and abilities in a new endeavour.
Good luck, in whatever it turns out to be.
Unfortunately, your experience falls within the "ASA works in mysterious ways ... expect the unexpected" mission statement.
You have obviously done your best ... they just weren't that into you.
However, I daresay you've learnt a lot and are better off for the experience. It's time to exercise your newfound skills , knowledge and abilities in a new endeavour.
Good luck, in whatever it turns out to be.
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Have exhausted that avenue. There will be no "rage against the machine" here. If they are as short staffed as people say and they are willing to cut people loose after proving their worth for the best part of 54 weeks, so be it. Life goes on. I just hope they get some results from those that got through to field training.
When you live....
Mr Twister
In your assessment of legal options have you considered:
S28 of the Trade Practices Act - Deceptive & Misleading conduct; or
The new consumer protection rules about unfair contracts?
S28 of the TPA would be a very good way to go.....
UTR
S28 of the Trade Practices Act - Deceptive & Misleading conduct; or
The new consumer protection rules about unfair contracts?
S28 of the TPA would be a very good way to go.....
UTR
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Another college failure who can't conceive that they just couldn't do the job. Blame everything else. Cry me a river please. You need to just face up to the fact that you obviously were not up to scratch. As you yourself stated, we need controllers desperately - what with all the impending retirements and departures to other ANSP's - so do you really think that AsA would knock you back and show you the door if they thought you were capable? After all THEIR time and money invested over the duration. Seriously, reality check please.
For the record, I went through the college a couple of years ago (will not specify exactly when as I wish to remain anonymous) and have been endorsed for quite some time now. Let's be perfectly blunt, if you know what you are doing then the college phase is pretty bloody easy. I know many will disagree, but the egocentric people this job attracts unfortunately like to make mountains out of molehills; blow their own trumpet etc. It is not that hard seriously. Final field training, as thankfully you WON'T discover, is a big step up my friend. Clearly the people that actually know what they're on about!!!! assessed you as not being up to the mark. Move on
Also, I do sympathise with you in regards to having your course extended for an extra 12 weeks, with a family of five that is completely ridiculous and you deserve (and should pursue) some sort of compensation.
For the record, I went through the college a couple of years ago (will not specify exactly when as I wish to remain anonymous) and have been endorsed for quite some time now. Let's be perfectly blunt, if you know what you are doing then the college phase is pretty bloody easy. I know many will disagree, but the egocentric people this job attracts unfortunately like to make mountains out of molehills; blow their own trumpet etc. It is not that hard seriously. Final field training, as thankfully you WON'T discover, is a big step up my friend. Clearly the people that actually know what they're on about!!!! assessed you as not being up to the mark. Move on
Also, I do sympathise with you in regards to having your course extended for an extra 12 weeks, with a family of five that is completely ridiculous and you deserve (and should pursue) some sort of compensation.
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mrtwister:
Obviously you are hurting. However, it doesn't matter what was in your contract- that isn't the point. The academy is only part of the way to 'being able to do the job'. The combined ops change was a good thing, IMHO, reflecting a more realistic look at real ATC, both from the students perspective, and from an assessment perspective. Being able to pass modules in the academy is not going to guarantee you will pass field training, and combined ops was added after feedback and criticism from the field. It pulls some threads together. Previously, lots of trainees who passed the academy were getting chopped in field training. So, in all likelihood, YOU would have been in that boat (based on the hurdle you fell at). And that would've been even more traumatic- more time wasted, feeling closer to finishing etc.
That being said, you were given an insight into an extremely toxic organisation, so maybe you dodged a bullet? The changes to your course timings etc. was only a taste of what goes on. That anyone leaves one of the best jobs points to what a poor employer AsA is, let alone in the numbers they do. It is also one of the reasons for this thread (staff shortage)
I wish you all the best with whatever you do from here.
Obviously you are hurting. However, it doesn't matter what was in your contract- that isn't the point. The academy is only part of the way to 'being able to do the job'. The combined ops change was a good thing, IMHO, reflecting a more realistic look at real ATC, both from the students perspective, and from an assessment perspective. Being able to pass modules in the academy is not going to guarantee you will pass field training, and combined ops was added after feedback and criticism from the field. It pulls some threads together. Previously, lots of trainees who passed the academy were getting chopped in field training. So, in all likelihood, YOU would have been in that boat (based on the hurdle you fell at). And that would've been even more traumatic- more time wasted, feeling closer to finishing etc.
That being said, you were given an insight into an extremely toxic organisation, so maybe you dodged a bullet? The changes to your course timings etc. was only a taste of what goes on. That anyone leaves one of the best jobs points to what a poor employer AsA is, let alone in the numbers they do. It is also one of the reasons for this thread (staff shortage)
I wish you all the best with whatever you do from here.
Another 3 Australians started in the Pit last month with two more being told to stand by for a start date. No staff shortages here. Apparently getting a pay rise next month. Was to be announced tonight at a big shin dig at the Address Hotel in the D-Town Marina but the RAK Ruler passed away so mournng period had the event cancelled.
They want another 30 bodies by mid next year is my mail for a resectorisation and expansion program. Keep an eye on flight global
They want another 30 bodies by mid next year is my mail for a resectorisation and expansion program. Keep an eye on flight global
Mr Chaser, you may have forgotten no 5......
Sometimes there's just no need to 'tell the punters' anything....
'All stns this is ****tybags 11, rolling Rwy 16 for dep to the south, climbing to ...'
It may not work at a 'primary' airport, but there are some places where it could be done...and it has been ....as you know I suspect....
Cheers
Sometimes there's just no need to 'tell the punters' anything....
'All stns this is ****tybags 11, rolling Rwy 16 for dep to the south, climbing to ...'
It may not work at a 'primary' airport, but there are some places where it could be done...and it has been ....as you know I suspect....
Cheers