Merged: Joe Eakins: Brave?....or....
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Roguesville, cloud cuckooland
Posts: 1,197
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes
on
5 Posts
Joe's dismissal has been variously reported as that of a "whistleblower" and related to "safety issues." that is all the public will see.
I agree, Jetstar have shot themselves in the foot with this.
I agree, Jetstar have shot themselves in the foot with this.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The Beech or the Office.
Age: 14
Posts: 330
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Capt Kremin,
I am the first to give credit where it is due. However, you and I both know that it is black and white stated in the FAM. As an employee, we are not allowed to canvas the media in any way, shape or form, without the approval of Management. God forbid **** canning the Co without said approval. Which ever way anyone looks at it, Joe made a grave judgement call with this. As I said in a previous post, SURELY he knew of the possible ramifications.
In a court of law, he hasn't a leg to stand on.
I am the first to give credit where it is due. However, you and I both know that it is black and white stated in the FAM. As an employee, we are not allowed to canvas the media in any way, shape or form, without the approval of Management. God forbid **** canning the Co without said approval. Which ever way anyone looks at it, Joe made a grave judgement call with this. As I said in a previous post, SURELY he knew of the possible ramifications.
In a court of law, he hasn't a leg to stand on.
Last edited by Normasars; 26th Nov 2010 at 08:11.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Here & There
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
However, in the Court of Public Opinion, Jetstar Management may well be caned and the reputation of their employer diminished.
No matter which way you look at it, is PR disaster in the making.
No matter which way you look at it, is PR disaster in the making.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: australia
Posts: 221
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
safety versus IR
I agree with the last post. This guy has attempted to make Jetstar look unsafe in the national press when the issue is actually linked to an industrial relations spat. In all the posts I have read here, no-one has actually been able to demonstrate that aircrew or passenger safety is at risk for any specific reason. Like a lot of unionists, this guy is attempting to get traction for his complaint by turning what is an EBA squabble into a "safety" matter as the safety element will attract media interest.
In short - he deserved to be sacked! They should also sue the bloke for a 5 milion dollars for making unfounded defamatory comments!
In short - he deserved to be sacked! They should also sue the bloke for a 5 milion dollars for making unfounded defamatory comments!
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Living next door to Alan
Posts: 1,521
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gidday Normasars,
The FAM goes something like this:
(To quote Westaway).
It seems Joe may have (sadly) tripped up on the last item: "bringing the company into disrepute". His press release appears to be neither false nor misleading, so it has to be that, considering Westaway hasn't refuted the first 2 items
.....
I thought that to bring a company into disrepute, the company first has to have a reputation
I sincerely hope he has a successful unfair dismissal hearing, just like the many others that have preceded him in the QUANTAS Group.
The FAM goes something like this:
''It relates to not making public information which is either false or misleading or brings the company into disrepute."(my bolding)
It seems Joe may have (sadly) tripped up on the last item: "bringing the company into disrepute". His press release appears to be neither false nor misleading, so it has to be that, considering Westaway hasn't refuted the first 2 items
.....I thought that to bring a company into disrepute, the company first has to have a reputation
I sincerely hope he has a successful unfair dismissal hearing, just like the many others that have preceded him in the QUANTAS Group.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The Beech or the Office.
Age: 14
Posts: 330
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Jarse,
Hope you and yours are well mate.
I take it from your quoting of the FAM, that you NEVER returned said manual on your departure
.
I thought it was part of the exit interview process to hand back the Manual Suite in its entirity. Certainly was with me.
And just to correct you on your point above, JQ certainly DO have a reputation; not an enviable one, but they do have one
Hope you and yours are well mate.
I take it from your quoting of the FAM, that you NEVER returned said manual on your departure
.I thought it was part of the exit interview process to hand back the Manual Suite in its entirity. Certainly was with me.
And just to correct you on your point above, JQ certainly DO have a reputation; not an enviable one, but they do have one
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: australia
Age: 74
Posts: 907
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Escalate the PR nightmare for Jetstar and it's management that this issue could quite easily become .
Start a petition for the REINSTATEMENT OF JOE!
Have the petition state, or something to the following effect,
"I the undersigned do hereby boycott travelling with Jetstar until F/O Joe is reinstated.I will also be telling all family and friends to boycott Jetstar until Jetstar management recind their decision to terminate Joe's employment."
Use face-book,and any other social networking venue, would the Mods consider setting up a voting feature for PPRuNer's to show their support?, set up a petition book at the airport, have a car with loud speakers doing laps at Sydney airport blaring out what Jetstar management have done, then have the media standing buy to film the inevitable eviction.
Hell then you could start a whole new video stream on you-tube with
"Jetstar desperate to hide the truth".
Would AIPA be willing to help with the logistics of this idea?
"GO JOE"
Start a petition for the REINSTATEMENT OF JOE!
Have the petition state, or something to the following effect,
"I the undersigned do hereby boycott travelling with Jetstar until F/O Joe is reinstated.I will also be telling all family and friends to boycott Jetstar until Jetstar management recind their decision to terminate Joe's employment."
Use face-book,and any other social networking venue, would the Mods consider setting up a voting feature for PPRuNer's to show their support?, set up a petition book at the airport, have a car with loud speakers doing laps at Sydney airport blaring out what Jetstar management have done, then have the media standing buy to film the inevitable eviction.
Hell then you could start a whole new video stream on you-tube with
"Jetstar desperate to hide the truth".
Would AIPA be willing to help with the logistics of this idea?
"GO JOE"
Last edited by blow.n.gasket; 26th Nov 2010 at 05:57.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Roguesville, cloud cuckooland
Posts: 1,197
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes
on
5 Posts
Victor 2, you obviously haven't read what Joe wrote. The only safety related part in it referred to the removal of the seniority system to be replaced by "merit".
What followed then was purely Joe's personal opinion, backed up by many professional pilots no doubt, that the removal of a seniority system for promotion discourages speaking out.
Joe's piece WAS industrial, which makes it so brave.
We have to ask ourselves as a profession and as a country; do we allow free speech or not?
AIPA have said they would take this to the High Court if necessary. In the mean time Joe will need to be supported.
What followed then was purely Joe's personal opinion, backed up by many professional pilots no doubt, that the removal of a seniority system for promotion discourages speaking out.
Joe's piece WAS industrial, which makes it so brave.
We have to ask ourselves as a profession and as a country; do we allow free speech or not?
AIPA have said they would take this to the High Court if necessary. In the mean time Joe will need to be supported.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Victor two, it does have huge safety implications. Jetstar management want to fill crew positions at the least possible cost, that means bypassing australian recruitment and filling positions based O/S. Now thats not to bad if you get quality pilots, and no doubt the captains will be experienced capts. However what about FO's, thse will generally be very inexperienced pilots from asia's training schools. Jetstar management see a person who has a pilots licence and treat him as employable without looking at the quality of training. Take a look at the report on Pprune from india about the FO who couldn't recover the aircraft from a minor upset when the captain left the flight desck to go to the toilet. Thats where all this is heading !
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Here & There
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agree C.K. Joe does need to be financially supported.
Between AIPA and its 2500 members, there is no reason he should be concerned about his immediate financial security. Just $20 per member would cover the time it takes for the Laws Courts, and/or the Court of Public Opinion to hand down judgement.
After tax, it would be just $10 per member if AIPA did it by way of a levy.
Between AIPA and its 2500 members, there is no reason he should be concerned about his immediate financial security. Just $20 per member would cover the time it takes for the Laws Courts, and/or the Court of Public Opinion to hand down judgement.
After tax, it would be just $10 per member if AIPA did it by way of a levy.
Looks like it has finally made commercial television.
Well done. Keep up the momentum. I hear strike action is being thrown around with Christmas on the way.
Might want to highlight those Indian fellas in the press, 'cause their like, will be up the front of your A320 very soon especially if the current management has its way.
The funny part is they fly Qantas Business - go figure!
Well done. Keep up the momentum. I hear strike action is being thrown around with Christmas on the way.
Might want to highlight those Indian fellas in the press, 'cause their like, will be up the front of your A320 very soon especially if the current management has its way.
The funny part is they fly Qantas Business - go figure!
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Living next door to Alan
Posts: 1,521
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Exit Interview?
Heh, heh, NORMAS,
They didn't give me the common courtesy of an exit interview. I had already put pen to paper on what I thought of them. Perhaps they used that
Just goes to show they are totally incapable of even following company policy correctly when dealing with regular resignations
.
Which is why I'm confident that Joe will win his unfair dismissal case. Considering QUANTAS1 has lost at least THREE unfair dismissal cases that I'm aware of, just in Eastern alone!
They really are amateurs. Industrial bullies, but amateurs
1. There's no "U" in QANTAS !!
Correct
Struggling, I'm sure support would be forthcoming from the broader industry, not just AIPA members. We're all in this together.
They didn't give me the common courtesy of an exit interview. I had already put pen to paper on what I thought of them. Perhaps they used that
Just goes to show they are totally incapable of even following company policy correctly when dealing with regular resignations
.Which is why I'm confident that Joe will win his unfair dismissal case. Considering QUANTAS1 has lost at least THREE unfair dismissal cases that I'm aware of, just in Eastern alone!
They really are amateurs. Industrial bullies, but amateurs
1. There's no "U" in QANTAS !!
Correct
Struggling, I'm sure support would be forthcoming from the broader industry, not just AIPA members. We're all in this together.
Last edited by Hugh Jarse; 26th Nov 2010 at 06:53. Reason: Final statement.
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Oz
Posts: 754
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote I just read in the paper:
Wow. After a few years the airline running costs should be asymptotically approaching zero! He's certainly a clever boy, that CEO, coming up with such practical management objectives.
And money has been sent to the Joe Eakins support fund (enough for 3 cases of premium beer - be my guest Joe!). Petition will be signed as soon as I can find it!
To Australian Airline Management:
I've just about had enough of your new breed of managerial thugs (and have been on the receiving end of your bastardry myself, but you got screwed didn't you? Because you didn't check your facts first).
Warmest regards,
Dutchy
QF Mainline F/O
The CEO of Jetstar requires a ten percent reduction in the airline costs per year.
And money has been sent to the Joe Eakins support fund (enough for 3 cases of premium beer - be my guest Joe!
). Petition will be signed as soon as I can find it!To Australian Airline Management:
I've just about had enough of your new breed of managerial thugs (and have been on the receiving end of your bastardry myself, but you got screwed didn't you? Because you didn't check your facts first).
Warmest regards,
Dutchy
QF Mainline F/O
Last edited by DutchRoll; 26th Nov 2010 at 11:16.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 254
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Somebody above (victor 2?) suggested this was an IR issue not a safety issue and suggested Joe Eakins himself should be sued!!!!....c'mon please...
From my standpoint it's the biggest bloody safety issue there is. I don't work for the airline in question. I live in Asia. I have seen what stupid managers do to save money - employ undertrained pilots to expand businesses quickly and/or circumvent established training & experience practices. Nice idea but it doesn't work.
Have you heard of Adam Air?
Perhaps Lion Air?
They don't exist anymore but you will see them on Air Crash Investigators on TV. They had idiot managers who cut costs at every corner.
Viva Macau, Grand Air (Philippines), Sempati, Far Eastern Air Transport (Taiwan)? All here not so long ago and all gone - there are many more but I forget their names.
I would dearly love not to see any 'Australian' airline on that list. There is a suggestion I believe that this is a real possibility.
Consequently, if it needed any explaining, This is not an IR issue it is a very grave safety matter. How the hell anybody should suggest Joe Eakins be sued I cannot fathom - let alone this call coming from (allegedly) one of our own on PPRUNE
.
From my standpoint it's the biggest bloody safety issue there is. I don't work for the airline in question. I live in Asia. I have seen what stupid managers do to save money - employ undertrained pilots to expand businesses quickly and/or circumvent established training & experience practices. Nice idea but it doesn't work.
Have you heard of Adam Air?
Perhaps Lion Air?
They don't exist anymore but you will see them on Air Crash Investigators on TV. They had idiot managers who cut costs at every corner.
Viva Macau, Grand Air (Philippines), Sempati, Far Eastern Air Transport (Taiwan)? All here not so long ago and all gone - there are many more but I forget their names.
I would dearly love not to see any 'Australian' airline on that list. There is a suggestion I believe that this is a real possibility.
Consequently, if it needed any explaining, This is not an IR issue it is a very grave safety matter. How the hell anybody should suggest Joe Eakins be sued I cannot fathom - let alone this call coming from (allegedly) one of our own on PPRUNE
.
Last edited by A. Le Rhone; 26th Nov 2010 at 08:11.
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: I prefer to remain north of a direct line BNE-ADL
Age: 48
Posts: 1,286
Likes: 0
Received 33 Likes
on
10 Posts
Joe will get plenty of donations they are rolling in. To the idiots that crap on about him not following the FAM etc, Who Cares? This is big and Jetstar have now pointed the blowtorch in their own face, Oh and I love the smell of a burning orange! Just shows how pathetic the 20's something accountants are running this airline that has survived by leaching flights off an established market. Now as long as the paint on Jetstar's planes dont contain lead i am happy to smell the roasting smoke! Seriously though I cant believe how idiotic these manager clowns are, they have made this event happen, and I can guarantee it is only going to get WORSE! Suffer in your jocks! It is xmas, even though I have to work theres now a possibility I may have it off! 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Adrift upon the tides of fate
Posts: 1,840
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Would be a great opportunity for VB to stick the boots in and get some valuable PR as well.
Hire the bloke, "we welcome Australians speaking up etc.", offer to fly punters for the same price if they cancel with 'agent orange' etc. It's endless.
Come on VB- this is an absolute free kick handed to you by some incompetents at the competition!
Hire the bloke, "we welcome Australians speaking up etc.", offer to fly punters for the same price if they cancel with 'agent orange' etc. It's endless.
Come on VB- this is an absolute free kick handed to you by some incompetents at the competition!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The Beech or the Office.
Age: 14
Posts: 330
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey AoA,
Thanks for the "idiot" remark. Really appreciate it. That must make @3800 idiots(pilots only at this stage) in the "group" then including YOU. I didn't see you putting your name to the sword like Joe. Just happy to ride on his coat-tails though eh?? Grow up. Everybody here admires what he has done, but at great cost. I admit I would not have put my name to the letter(would you? NO!), does not make people here losers. With your attitude of giving a spray to people who point out a fact, then your slight of hand comment doesn't help the cause.
As you point out, this is big. If it's so big then why didn't YOU pen something with your name and position on it and mail it to the media. Perhaps YOU value your job and know what is permitted and what is NOT permitted in the Flight Administration Manual.
Thanks for the "idiot" remark. Really appreciate it. That must make @3800 idiots(pilots only at this stage) in the "group" then including YOU. I didn't see you putting your name to the sword like Joe. Just happy to ride on his coat-tails though eh?? Grow up. Everybody here admires what he has done, but at great cost. I admit I would not have put my name to the letter(would you? NO!), does not make people here losers. With your attitude of giving a spray to people who point out a fact, then your slight of hand comment doesn't help the cause.
As you point out, this is big. If it's so big then why didn't YOU pen something with your name and position on it and mail it to the media. Perhaps YOU value your job and know what is permitted and what is NOT permitted in the Flight Administration Manual.
