Jetstar Singapore Contract
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone is zero
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Professor, the "free market" does not exist. The onus is on you to prove that it does, as you continue to assert its existance. I contend the "market" is not free, but centrally planned, and has been for almost 100 years. I await your rebuttal.
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: CA
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“Professor, the "free market" does not exist.”
The “free market” is like “capitalism”, a fantastic ideal but generally non-existent.
There are no examples of a completely free labor market in Australia, or any western nation for that matter. I use the term “free” to describe the labor markets relative position.
In the case of cockpit crew in JQ, the market is virtually unhindered by industrial barriers relative to an airline such as QF. Direct entry commands, ease of relocation, offshore basing, Greenfield conditions – just a few examples of what can be achieved following the removal of artificial barriers created by organized labor.
But you are correct; the market is not completely free of impediments - although opening up employment positions in Australia to foreign applicants would be a step in this direction.
“The onus is on you to prove that it does”
How much input did JQ pilots have to the salary and conditions of the SIN operation?
The “free market” is like “capitalism”, a fantastic ideal but generally non-existent.
There are no examples of a completely free labor market in Australia, or any western nation for that matter. I use the term “free” to describe the labor markets relative position.
In the case of cockpit crew in JQ, the market is virtually unhindered by industrial barriers relative to an airline such as QF. Direct entry commands, ease of relocation, offshore basing, Greenfield conditions – just a few examples of what can be achieved following the removal of artificial barriers created by organized labor.
But you are correct; the market is not completely free of impediments - although opening up employment positions in Australia to foreign applicants would be a step in this direction.
“The onus is on you to prove that it does”
How much input did JQ pilots have to the salary and conditions of the SIN operation?
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: rangaville
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Oicur,
I've had quite a few 'career changes' over my time. Most of them have been in unionised (for good reason) industries. Of all those industries the piloting 'profession' is the most fractured, self centred and short sighted of them all.
I've had quite a few 'career changes' over my time. Most of them have been in unionised (for good reason) industries. Of all those industries the piloting 'profession' is the most fractured, self centred and short sighted of them all.
I certainly would like more solidaridy but I don't think you can compare flying with other "unionised industries". The main difference is that we really love our jobs and that puts managers at a natural advantage...
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: CA
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".....you agree not to accept the positions"
But this makes no sense.
Are you suggesting that you agree not to accept the position on behalf of somebody else? Because that somebody else has already offered to "accept the position" otherwise there would be no takers for the SIN base.
Therefore are you denying somebody else (someone you probably dont know) the right to make their own decision?
How would you feel if that decision was being made on your behalf?
But this makes no sense.
Are you suggesting that you agree not to accept the position on behalf of somebody else? Because that somebody else has already offered to "accept the position" otherwise there would be no takers for the SIN base.
Therefore are you denying somebody else (someone you probably dont know) the right to make their own decision?
How would you feel if that decision was being made on your behalf?
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: tassie
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I hear that singapore caas have told jetstar that they cannot use the pilots that they have given contracts to for the 330 positions...not enough wide body experience.
The flying will now be based out of melbourne ufn.....and guess what???not enough crew to fly them.
What a pack of amatures!
The flying will now be based out of melbourne ufn.....and guess what???not enough crew to fly them.
What a pack of amatures!
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: south pacific vagrant
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What a pack of amatures!
Just another example of commercial ignorance (arrogance?) trying to run roughshod over what used to be considered prudent flight ops practice.
REG and and his mates aren't amatures. They're are very good at what they're qualified in. Just that some would argue running airlines isn't it. Clearly didn't learn from the JQNZ start up debacle. You think SQ will offer $50 fares for disrupt pax like AirNZ did?
If what you say is true and the SIN CAA has pulled the pin, finally, a jurisdiction with some balls.
Where does that leave all the recent widebody temp transfers?
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bottom half of the world...
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Have heard from an old blue shirt mate,that the CAA issue was only due to the f/o experience levels. No experience problems with the capts going. ( many already have widebody cmd time.) Due to the delays with training, melb flights to kick off with Aust guys until the JQAsia guys trained up early next year.
Sounds like yet another well organised jetstar plan??!!
Sounds like yet another well organised jetstar plan??!!
Last edited by blacksmoke; 13th Nov 2010 at 04:33.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
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You sure caas didn't approve the jq pilots? I thought all widebody pilots start with narrowbodies first...
Anyway if its true, then caas seems to be in fail mode. First they failed tiger's pilots causing them painful cancellations ex sin, and now they fail jq's pilots!
Anyway if its true, then caas seems to be in fail mode. First they failed tiger's pilots causing them painful cancellations ex sin, and now they fail jq's pilots!
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: perth
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My information from 4 330 training captains running my course is that only 1 of the applicants has wide body CMD time, while a handfull have widebody Fo time. The only fo's they could get and present to the authorities were pilots with no jet time at all!!! It was the combination of Capt's without widebody time + No jet experience Fo's that had them nervous and telling the fool's in Melb to have another think about their proposal.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Australia
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Due to the delays with training, melb flights to kick off with Aust guys until the JQAsia guys trained up early next year.
Operate the service until they source & finish training your ultra low cost replacements!
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Darwin
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Test the resolve of the local guys and girls?
What they will refurse to operate the Singapore flights or operate them at a lower standard then they do the rest of the network?
Wake up. If you look at the numbers, the Sydney base is over crewed (F/O`s) by the exact amount required to crew another A330. Guys were spared a forced move to crew these fligths. I think they will be pretty happy about that.
Now with the contracts falling over, these guys are going to be base in Melbourne on the EBA. The contract has backfired alright, but only on the company.
What they will refurse to operate the Singapore flights or operate them at a lower standard then they do the rest of the network?
Wake up. If you look at the numbers, the Sydney base is over crewed (F/O`s) by the exact amount required to crew another A330. Guys were spared a forced move to crew these fligths. I think they will be pretty happy about that.
Now with the contracts falling over, these guys are going to be base in Melbourne on the EBA. The contract has backfired alright, but only on the company.
I've been told that there are a number of pilots from SA who have widebody command (Bus) experience that have been accepted for the JQ Asia positions. Management plan for the JQ Aust pilots to "fill in" initially while these guys get their Aust & Singaporean ATPL subjects, then they will take over the operation.
Essentially, the JQ Aust guys who do the initial flying or conduct the Sim checks for foreign pilots are simply assisting management taking their jobs offshore.
Essentially, the JQ Aust guys who do the initial flying or conduct the Sim checks for foreign pilots are simply assisting management taking their jobs offshore.
Last edited by Going Boeing; 15th Nov 2010 at 01:37.
