Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Merged: Senate Inquiry

Old 29th Aug 2013, 21:46
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Missed a bit

From the Australian :-

The industry complaints commissioner would be responsible for investigating complaints about CASA personnel and delegates or authorised personnel.

The commissioner would be required to provide a quarterly report to the board and director of aviation safety that included a summary of activities, the number or complaints received and time taken to respond.

"The other issue we get constantly is criticism of differences in the way the same laws are interpreted in different offices by different people," Mr Truss said.

Other key parts of the policy include better utilisation of the airspace.

The Coalition will task Airservices Australia with fast-tracking technological improvements at airports that are supported by both airports and airlines and could improve reliability.

The en-route subsidy scheme would be revived but would be restructured to provide maximum help to marginal routes.
The carbon tax goes as part of the wider Coalition policy, aviation manufacturing would be encouraged and there would be a move to revitalise general aviation.

On the vexed question of a second Sydney airport, the Coalition would make a decision on a second site in its first term of government.
Now is the time for all good men. etc.

Last edited by Kharon; 29th Aug 2013 at 21:57. Reason: Senate threads total reads 831340.
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Old 29th Aug 2013, 21:55
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Is it a "core promise"?

All of what has been discussed here was also occurring when Truss was the responsible minister. He had the chance then and did nothing. Read this and weep.

I am not going to hold my breath on this.
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Old 29th Aug 2013, 22:16
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For the converted.

Ben Sandilands – Plane Talking

"The failure of the deputy PM Anthony Albanese, to take his responsibilities to act on the Pel-Air scandal seriously will bite him badly today when the coalition announces what will be an extremely serious review of air safety administration in Australia.

This is how the announcement is previewed in The Australian.
Aw, c'mon PL – let's at least smile - till smoko. Things are just a little different this time; traps have been set by clever folk. I just can't decide if I want a wabbit pie or bacon sambo; lots of choice on the menu, two varieties of soup; although some of the menu is of dubious quality it's not all worthless. I shall speak to the Chef.
Now then Sir, will ye have nuts or a cigar..........

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Old 29th Aug 2013, 23:01
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"For instance, it's silly to have a board that the CEO is not answerable to,
Isn't the DAS on the board? Doesn't this make for a conflict of interest?

The commissioner would be required to provide a quarterly report to the board and director of aviation safety that included a summary of activities, the number or complaints received and time taken to respond.
Wrong! The Commissioner has to report to The Minister.

BTW, on who's payroll, is this new Commissioner?
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Old 29th Aug 2013, 23:11
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A message to Truss !!

Talk is good, it's cheap but its a start. Mr Truss's concerns are noted, and his probable intentions are what I would say 'in the spirit' of the type of changes we need. However he is still off the mark somewhat on numerous criteria, but at least he is a little bit awake.

By way of suggestion to Mr Truss, he ought to consider the following;

• The current Board does not need an increase in trough dwelling bureaucrats whose job is to protect a Minister while squeezing the DAS testicles between thumb and forefinger (they are rumoured to be quite small). The entire Board needs replacing, and should be replaced by 4 senior people with aviation experience. Their role becomes one of actually completing things such as the reg reform, improving aviation safety, enhancing our current system and reporting honestly and transparently with the sole purpose being SAFETY. Even if that means having to make hard decisions. Career bureaucrats serve no value on the Board.
• Restructure of the 'trio of DAS'. The current three should ALL be dumped come March 2014. Replaced by one DAS and one Deputy DAS who have an aviation background but one that includes actual aviation safety knowledge and experience. We don't need test pilots and angry 'one man show ' induviduals steering (I mean attempting to steer) Australian aviation.
• The incoming Government will need to publicly state 'Houston we have a problem', and admit that successive governments have f #cked the whole system. The sore has been ignored and now we have cancerous lesions.
• The ICC - The current set up is an absolute disgrace. Time for some back to basics, and lets use Michael Hart as an example of how the ICC should be run. Perhaps not perfect, but the current set-up is similar to a Mexican court.
• Any Government advisers on aviation matters could be made up to include independents and people like Xenophon and Fawcett, they simply must be considered.
• CAsA restructure - Apart from the obvious need to tear down the current malaise, there needs to be a ****load of tidying up of past events. How? A high level of inquiry/commission must be introduced to sift through the past events that simply will not be closed until justice is served, truth revealed and closure provided to the countless who have been wronged, denied, suffered at the hands of systemic bureaucratic failures, otherwise Australia will continue to be at pains for decades to come, just like NZ still is over Erebus where justice was never served. Closure must be prioritised for;
- The Transair Lockhart farce.
- The Pel Air fiasco
- Canley Vale, the next can of worms.
- Justice for Butson, Stan, Quadrio, James, Urqhart, Hare and the list goes on and on and on.........
• Time line - A 3 year time line, coinciding with the new Governments term should be set for finishing reform, restructuring CAsA, fixing the ATSB (which should include the removal of the three non aviation Commissioners), a Royal Commision or similar to be hopefully completed and apologies/recompense/justice be awarded to aviation victims and accountability including potential charges be laid upon negligent serving and former government employees.
• Mr Truss states that he can introduce some interim measures ? I would trust that might included removing the CAsA AND ATSBeakers top executives prior to the end of March 2014? And Mr Truss, lets see your plans detailed and in writing with a PERSONAL commitment and accountable statement from yourself please. I am sure that your people can draft something next week, it could just win you a lot of aviation voters support
• Assistance - The incoming Government needs to eat a giant **** sandwich and seek assistance from ICAO to start with, followed by a potential working group from the FAA and CAA. Both labor and liberal have proven over the past 25 years that they do not understand aviation, have not been capable or willing to govern aviation, have contributed to the absolute demise in aviation safety standards and contributed to the death of GA. The mere voting in of a new government does not fix the underlying problems.

Anyway, this is just a taste of my bucket list. Perhaps we could start a new thread titled 'Aviation Bucket List 2014', containing no sledging, religion or politics, no waffle, no acronyms and no pigs at trough photos (although that is quite amusing!). Just dot points that can be viewed by not only our aviation community but by the media, politicians and interested parties. After all Pprune is a social media site, it has the potential to be a very powerful and effective aviation tool. It is us guys/gals at the pointy end who know what needs to be done, who knows what works, so wouldn't it be in the best interest, the smart interest, of the government to listen to what the IOS have to say??

004

Last edited by 004wercras; 30th Aug 2013 at 02:25.
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 01:52
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I vote 004 for the choccy frog award.
very to the point mate,
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 02:43
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casa and atsb just do not get it!!!!!!!!!

Well done 004 and Kharon:

Now is the real time for action - start the real lobbying

I found this recently:

Aviations Future:

This is dire in Australia if the current situation continues.

Over regulation, improper regulations, interference with due process, prosecution of people without due cause, double jepoardy in charges and on and on.

Where to next is the question that must be posed.

Under Labor, more of the same with a Minister that “Just does not get it…”

Under the coalition, a regulation change and a personel change??

We must have answers.

The following is a briefing paper which exposes some of the issues that are incumbent in this “must have” argument.
____________________________________________________________ ________________________________
Aviation Future – Is There One?

The future of aviation in Australia, which is the basis for modern travel, is essential in Australia, as for the rest of the world. The future of aviation within Australia cannot be easily separated from it’s international connections and context. Yet the core of successful Australian aviation is General Aviation[GA].

The basis for aviation is ensuring a high level of safety for all the users of the system. ICAO has provided, what is shown to be a strong base for aviation. Aviation’s future though, can be affected, in fact defined by the method of application of the direction provided by ICAO in the local context by CASA and ATSB .
Aviation must have a strong and vibrant system within the local setting as a proper base for successful aviation.

The aviation industry, beset by a myriad of partitioned segments. These have, to a large degree, self-interest. This has given us an aviation industry, which does not have clear direction and often moves in disparate ways.

Perhaps this is from the very “roots” of aviation in the 1920’s, where a fragmented base developed. This was supported [or maybe, just developed further] with the dependence in the war years of the 40’s, on aviation.

This fragmentation can be seen in the training of pilots, engineers and of LAME s. It carries through into the regulator, with the fragmentation of the process of regulation.
The regulator, with a process that has taken over 25 years, has led to a system, which is now “more broken” than before the process started. A classic example is CAO 100.5 which would have seen all GA planes grounded within zero to 100 hours of it’s promulgation on 1st August 2013.

Much the same as the AvGas scandal in the late 1990’s of which the regulator was aware, at least 6 months earlier, but failed to act.

A simpler basis for aviation must be developed.

There are seriously embedded self interest groups, who will have to release some of the “control” they have developed, if there is to be any improvement in what is now a very broken system. People are locked in a battle for survival – in a financial and regulatory sense.

This battle is very noisy within industry. The outside community, which needs or at the very least, uses aviation, hears very little. The recent 4-Corners and other current affairs programmes lead to community disquiet.

There are lots of examples that the community sees, which are focussing on quite negative issues. These do more to deride the industry [issues] or just cause the community to lose faith in the industry.


We now have a regulator which favours the “big end of town”, rather than giving a range of reasonable regulations for aviation to prosper.

The regulator in it’s “Directions in/of Operation” or micro-management, interferes in the economic activity, which is not the regulator’s function. Yet the Australian regulator, in it’s activities has industry economic interference at a higher level than any other Government Department/ Instrumentality that I have seen over the past 45 years.

Copyright – August 2013
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 02:48
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If the new government is serious about changing the direction of aviation policy then create an aviation ministry and not lump it with transport and regional services. It is too easy for governments of all persuasions to palm off aviation policy under the transport umbrella and the Minister to claim that there are more important issues. The consensus seems to be that aviation policy started to deteriorate 25 years ago, doesn't that coincide with the absorbtion of aviation into the transport portfolio?

A Minister for Aviation will only need to focus on one thing and not be able to dodge thorny issues like Senate Inquiries. An aviation minister would also be able to keep his public servants in line and not given the "safety" runaround as an answer to all attempts to change the status quo. At least having a separate ministry would allow the Deputy PM to maintain the Transport and Regional Services portfolio and allow someone like Senator Fawcett to have a portfolio that matches his experience.

I still maintain that we won't see any changes until mid next year at the earliest. If I am wrong I will be pleasantly surprised.
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 03:58
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The Coalition's policy for aviation is now available. The link below provides a download from Zippyshare; as it's been a while, please remember only click the large red "DOWNLOAD NOW" button on the top right corner of the page.

Coalition Policy for Aviation – 13 pages, 30 second download.

P18. a.k.a. Blind Freddy.
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 04:34
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The only firm commitment I can see is to decide on where to put the 2nd Sydney Airport! The rest of it is to promise to review the state of the industry with no timetable for a final report. Those holding their breath will need to hold a lot longer.
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 05:26
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Can't remember who asked, but yes the Screaming Skull is on the Fort Fumble Board. I have attached the original confirmation letter from the Chief Board Bureaucrat to the Minister for Mascot:

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/dep...pointments.pdf
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 10:40
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We live in interesting times

I'm not sure of the exact amount, but Australia's regulator has squandered a quarter billion dollars or so over the past twenty years, allegedly "reforming" regulations. Replacing a modest number of pages into thousands to allegedly improve "safety". Have they achieved the stated goal? Compared with the worlds biggest aviation country nope!
NZ on the other hand expended around five million dollars and a few years and reformed theirs and from informed sources did a pretty good job, so much so that quite a few other countries around the globe chose to adopt them. Did they achieve their stated goal? Yep!
Todays Australian has some interesting articles, not a single job add for pilots though, same at the AFPAP websight except for three in NZ.

Encouraging for Mr.Truss to be calling for an inquiry into the regulator as part of the coalitions policy. It is now incumbent on us all to bombard his office to reinforce the industries displeasure at the current state of affairs and hold the coalition to account for their promises.
Also in the Australian.
The Kiwi's seem to have another thing right to, with a call to copy them on air services.

The telling piece I thought was Air New Zealand announcing a 156 % increase in profit, when our lot can only manage a token five million and a massive loss. One could be forgiven for imagining that things seem to be going rather well in aviation land over there. Of course it couldn't be that the burden and cost of over regulation here is so onerous that it is becoming impossible for industry to make a profit. Are we heading back to the old two airline days of the sixties and seventies when a ticket from Sydney to Melbourne was around five hundred bucks...what would that be in todays dollars? Oh well there goes the tourist industry along with the GA industry, does CAsA care? they don't have to!

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Old 30th Aug 2013, 23:04
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What cracks me up is that there are still suckers around who appear to have forgotten the last three or so regurgitations of the same empty rhetoric.

A “review”.

A “restructure”.

A new “strategic direction”.

A “strengthened Board” with “aviation expertise”.

(With acknowledgement and apologies to HL Mencken): No political party ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the Australian public.

The future of aviation regulation and accident investigation in Australia will be determined by whoever has the balance of power in the Senate.

Last edited by Creampuff; 30th Aug 2013 at 23:04.
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 23:17
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At least a positive sign. Although I think the comment about increasing the CASA Board from 4 to 6 totally misses the point. Its is not the size of the Board that matters but the quality of the directors, people who REALLY understand every corner of the industry AND can run a business... the current directors sadly continue to build on their own unimpressive record... time for complete change!
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Old 31st Aug 2013, 04:00
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Folks,
Both Virgin and Qantas would have posted very different bottom lines, had there been no carbon tax.
Virgin publicly attribute a large percentage of loss to the carbon tax.

Another point about the comparison between the operations of Air NZ and Qantas --- having the right aeroplanes for the job, ie: fuel efficient, is a very telling factor, and ANZ will move further ahead in the efficiency stakes when, in the near future, they take delivery of B787-9s.

And when is Qantas going to see some fuel efficient aircraft in the fleet??

Creamie,
The first thing that is different, this time, is the intellect of Senator David Fawcett, and the acceptance, by Truss and others, that AMROBA's "iron ring" in CASA actually exists, and must be dealt with, if CASA is to be resurrected in some form that is not aggressively anti aviation.

There is a commitment to taking "the rules" away from CASA, a clear recognition that NZ have it right, and our regulatory direction is misguided, despite all the money that has been spent. the last actual "reform" saw the light of day in 1998.

Perhaps the second is that, this time, there is a recognition by the big end of town that their operations have been severely hit, cost wise, the saga of getting Part 145 approvals being the breaker.

We now have equality of enforcement, the majors are being shafted, not just GA.

The majors also know that the treatment of Tiger was unjustified, buy was and is symptomatic of an aggressive and ill-directed CASA.

If you are a turkey that votes for Christmas, vote Labor.

Tootle pip!!

The Coalition?s plan for Aviation | Liberal Party of Australia

As well a previous Pain.net post, there is a link here to the LNP policy.

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Old 31st Aug 2013, 05:30
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So why do they need to have a “high level external review of aviation safety and regulations” by a “prominent member of the international aviation community”?

Why did Mr Truss announce that “a Coalition government would not proceed with changes until the review was completed.”?

What is it that the Coalition doesn’t already know about what needs to be done?

Why won’t the Coalition commit to making immediate changes to aviation safety and regulations, based on the formidable intellects and overwhelming pieces of evidence that are, apparently, already available to it?
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Old 31st Aug 2013, 05:52
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casa and atsb just do not get it!!!!!!!!!

creamie old chap,

Reason for this is simply that there are too many entrenched casa and atsb views. If you were not physically at the Senate inquiry or missed the body language, Mrdac, mccomic and beaker together made an interesting show.

Mrdac telling both what to say [mitigation of damage/ direction of the minister????] and then mccomic and beaker toeing the party line.

This was about the time when the honourable senators smelt the rat and realised that they were being "...done over...".

An outsider with a serious touch of the smarts will see this when briefed by the senators as to the real situation and that person calls for industry comment and this is heard without interference.

Remember the chamber [pot] report in PelAir.

We need a clean start, something no-one until now has been seriously prepared to give clear air too.

Well done the Senators


Step 1 Done

Now Step 2 - Investigate the bad guys in atsb and casa and get rid of them;

then Step 3 - Introduce the NZ or FAA regs

and Step 4 - Go industry
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Old 31st Aug 2013, 05:57
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Why won’t the Coalition commit to making immediate changes to aviation safety and regulations
Why do anything, except wait for next weeks party?

The announcement appears to be at least something to look forward to, instead of looking back at the last six years of "hard labor".

That and the in house "regulatory review process" can stand alone on their respective merits and dismal legacy.
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Old 31st Aug 2013, 11:23
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Anyone want to take a guess at who the Aviation Expert will be that the new gummint will bring in to provide clarity on the current mess? I vote 1 Brian Aherne.
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Old 31st Aug 2013, 11:33
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Wouldn't that be a conflict of interest? Ahernes wife/partner and her business partners litigated against CAsA and won a settlement. May be a little too close to the fire.
He also hasn't been very 'diplomatic' with his statements about a number of his former employers including CAsA, ATSB, SACL and the VIC Police helicopter wing.
And finally, aligning himself with Quinn? That won't do your reputation much good.

Last edited by 004wercras; 31st Aug 2013 at 20:21. Reason: Correction - ViC air wing
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