Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Merged: Senate Inquiry

Old 28th Aug 2013, 12:16
  #1381 (permalink)  
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DPM's false statement on PelAir report!

FFS did he think the IOS wouldn't notice??
Pel-Air on prime time TV snares Minister’s false statement

The Minister for Transport Anthony Albanese was caught out on 7 News tonight in a report by Chris Reason on the festering sore that is the proven hush up by CASA and the ATSB of all of the circumstances that were relevant to the crash of a Pel-Air operated air ambulance flight near Norfolk Island in 2009.

Albanese said he was unable to take action over a damning Senate committee report on lies and deceits of Australia’s two air safety authorities because parliament went into caretaker mode.

Minister, this is total unmitigated rubbish. Caretaker mode began on 5 August.

On 29 May after consultation with your department Plane Talking published this story as to the urgency with which you and your departmental head Mike Mrdak were claimed to be responding to the unanimous report of the Senate Committee inquiry into aviation safety investigations with particular reference to the performance of the ATSB (the safety investigator) and CASA (the safety regulator).

At that inquiry the Director of Safety at CASA, John McCormick, admitted to withholding an internal audit by CASA that found that the accident was preventable if CASA had actually carried out its duties and obligations in law in relation to the oversight of Pel-Air.

Mr McCormick also apologised for his actions, which the committee has referred to the Australian Federal Police to resolve whether or not it was action that constituted an offence under the Transport Safety Investigations Act of 2003. (If the words in the act mean what they say, McCormick broke the law.)

The committee went on to devote an entire chapter of its report into its lack of confidence in the testimony given by the chief commissioner for the ATSB, Martin Dolan. The committee’s findings, made by a panel drawn from Labor, the Coalition and the Greens, was unanimous in its findings.

It also recommended, among other things, that the ATSB reconsider its final accident report and in the process retrieve the data recorder from the wreckage of the jet, which lies at a recoverable depth on the sea floor near Norfolk Island where it came to rest after being ditched immediately before it ran out of fuel. (All six persons on board were subsequently rescued by a fishing boat in the middle of the night).

The ATSB has deliberately chosen not to recover the data, which carries the distinct possibility of proving that the pilot did not receive correct meteorological information before flying the jet to a position where it could no longer divert to an alternative airport in Noumea or Fiji should it be unable to land at Norfolk Island for a refueling stop.

The ATSB failed to honor its international obligations to make safety recommendations in relation to the failure on board the ditched jet of all of the safety equipment to perform as intended. It regarded the eventual discovery that CASA had found Pel-Air to be in breach of dozens of safety requirements at the time of the crash as ‘immaterial’, and it framed its final report to visit the entire blame for the accident on the captain Dominic James, who was central to the 7 News report, which should be readily found by a search query on the internet later tonight.

As Mick Quinn, the former deputy chief executive officer of CASA told Chris Reason on 7 News tonight, this corrupted and untruthful circus performance by the safety bodies in relation to the Pel-Air investigation has destroyed Australia’s reputation as a first class nation when it comes to the administration of air safety.

Minister, you are personally responsible for this. You allowed commitments to be made on your behalf, which were not honoured, and you have demonstrated contempt for the Senate of Australia by not responding to the committee’s recommendations within 90 days.

This means you have not acted in a timely manner to correct or restore the integrity of the aviation safety authorities, and that means the safety of Australian air travellers, and those of foreign airlines and their passengers using our air space and airports, is no longer a given.

On 30 May Plane Talking reported on the intention of the department of Infrastructure and Transport to ‘ride out’ the controversy over the disgraceful report issed by the ATSB into this accident.

Minister, surely you are not a party to ‘riding out’ critically important air safety issues? The world is unlikely to let Australia get away with such a poor attitude, as explained in this more recent report.

If the Minister can say so during caretaker mode, what was he thinking when he gave his misleading answer about his inability to repond to these matters in the Chris Reason interview?

Was it amnesia? Or did he think no one would notice that what was broadcast tonight was in conflict with his position at the end of May?
And here's a link for Ch7 news piece : Pilot's scathing attack on air safety agencies

And Albo not just anyone can refer a matter to the AFP...doh!

Referrals to the AFP
{lie 2 in about a dozen words from the DPM}
When a matter can be referred to the AFP

An Australian Government department or agency may refer a matter to the AFP Operations Monitoring Centre (OMC) in the State or Territory where the suspected offence/s occurred if it:
  • identifies any serious breach of federal legislation
  • considers the AFP Case Categorisation and Prioritisation Model
  • considers the matter is appropriate for referral to the AFP
  • requires AFP assistance or advice in relation to an investigation being conducted by that department or agency into suspected breaches of Federal legislation
How to make a referral

For initial enquiries or pre-referral advice, departments and agencies should call the local AFP Operations Monitoring Centre.

All referrals should be made using an AFP Referral Form (DOC, 100KB). If you are having trouble accessing this document, please call the local AFP Operations Monitoring Centre.

Referrals should be sent to the AFP Operations Monitoring Centre in the State or Territory where the suspected offences occurred. The referral should include all relevant referral information and documents (letter and attachments).

Referrals may be sent by email or post, or delivered by hand. Agencies should consider the security classification and sensitivity of the information contained in the referral when deciding how to send it to the AFP.

All referral letters to the AFP must, as a minimum, include the following:
  • copies of all documents relevant to the referral
  • action being requested of the AFP
  • if the department or agency wants the AFP to consider a joint investigation, details should be included (such as which resources they are able to provide)
  • the suspected breaches including specific legislation offence(s)
  • details of the suspected offender(s) including name, date of birth, location (where known)
  • the suspect's criminal history, if known, and information relating to circumstances where they have previously come to the department or agency's attention
  • a chronological account of the facts or evidence supporting the suspected breach(es)
  • value of the revenue loss or potential losses for the department or agency
  • a summary of all enquiries or investigations already undertaken by the department or agency
  • details of witnesses
  • if the suspect(s) is aware of the department or agency's investigation/allegation
  • references to any specific legislative provisions including consent to prosecute or time limitation regarding commencement of prosecution
  • copies of relevant legal advice sought by, and provided to, the department or agency
  • significance or impact of the referral to the department or agency
  • the department or agency case reference number and other reference details, including the operation's name
  • details of the department or agency's nominated case officer and/or contact person including their contact details
Where search warrants or operational action is proposed, departments and agencies are requested to provide Standard Tactical Plans or similar planning documentation with the referral documents.
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Old 28th Aug 2013, 13:11
  #1382 (permalink)  
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Chris Reason joins the Ills Of Society - Welcome Chris!!

Indeed an interesting interview. But lets not waste precious time debating the matter as there is nothing really to debate - The Minister, his office, CAsA, ATSB and to a slightly lesser degree up until lately ASA, are an absolute disgrace, a shambles, a mess, a dysfunctional risk and nothing less than a rotting pungent carcass.
It is time that the nation was somehow shown in great detail how pathetic the above mentioned departments, organisations and structures are, and instant action be applied.

Caretaker mode my ass. They are stalling and deflecting. The Screaming Skull's contract is up in March 2014, and unfortunately the rest of his circus act aren't contracted, so they have lifetime jobs. The Minister for bad teeth and his apprentice Mrdork are simply ticking off calendar days hoping all will be forgotten. That's the way they have always done it and hell it used to work. But not this time. Change is in the wind my friends. People, including the IOS aren't going to walk away nor forget this time. And nor should we, because sooner or later more people will get killed. Pel Air was sheer luck that nobody died. Canley Vale and CAsA's blatant ignoring of the warnings is a disgrace. The farcicle actions of CAsA and the deaths of 15 people at Lockhart is a sore that never heals. I reiterate that the families, friends and loved ones of the Transair disaster DESERVE BETTER, DESERVE JUSTICE, DESERVE THE TRUTH TO BE TOLD! This has not happened yet. It is an absolutely appalling episode. Seriously, how much of this shit to Australia's citizens have to endure?

The FAA, ICAO, NTSB, ANAO, hell old mother Hubbard with an AWI in her cupboard, all of them need to audit Fort Fumble.
Xenophon, Fawcett, Nash and Co they've got your number Big John! They smell what you're cooking mate, and its not good. And Beaker, Mr mi mi mi mi, you've also been made old son. You are a laughing stock, a pathetic bean counting bureaucrat who doesn't deserve the position of Commissioner, no you never have, and you never will.

The longer that the above dross are allowed to continue staining our industry with there putrid brown skidmark the closer we come to the inevitable giant smoking hole.

'Safe skies are NOT our skies'

Last edited by 004wercras; 28th Aug 2013 at 13:21.
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Old 28th Aug 2013, 21:32
  #1383 (permalink)  
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Minister, this is total unmitigated rubbish.

"Albanese said he was unable to take action over a damning Senate committee report on lies and deceits of Australia’s two air safety authorities because parliament went into caretaker mode."Minister, this is total unmitigated rubbish. Caretaker mode began on 5 August.
That Albo is just plain shit scared of matters aeronautical is a very good thing; the whole lot must be wetting themselves, because one way or t'other this cannot be stopped: it may be delayed, deferred, bushwhacked and sabotaged; but not stopped. In fact the longer it drags on, the more reason for a full dress inquiry there is, nervous politicians (not piloticians) should know that the entire nation will point the finger of blame directly at them the next time there is an incident – they are after all fully aware that there is a deep, festering scab covering a lethal wound – with a bit of luck, this notion will filter through to even those with the attention span of a well trained racing rabbit and the IQ of toilet seat.

Keep up the good work boys, drag it out, deny, deny deny; attaboy....
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Old 28th Aug 2013, 22:43
  #1384 (permalink)  

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I have no doubt that CASA will force PPRuNe to remove this post or lock this thread,...
I don't think so!
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Old 28th Aug 2013, 23:42
  #1385 (permalink)  
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So the strategy from here:
1. Deny, go quiet...(usual behaviour)
2. Polls indicate defeat, so Albo does nothing even more...loses portfolio
3. New government and new aviation minister appointed
4. New Aviation minister blames previous government, gets as much traction as possible by blaming old minister who now has different shadow portfolio
5. Minor administrative changes made to obscure governing instruments for CASA and ATSB. "Problems caused by Labor Government all fixed, cannot happen again!"
6. New government moves onto bigger announcements, previous stuff lost in the noise.
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Old 29th Aug 2013, 00:52
  #1386 (permalink)  
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Legs eleven

7. Smoking hole of a large twin occurs with the loss of hundreds of lives. The truth about the condition of Australian aviation is finally laid out before all, live on TV as charred fragmented body parts are carried away.


Last edited by 004wercras; 29th Aug 2013 at 00:53.
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Old 29th Aug 2013, 01:16
  #1387 (permalink)  
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Only two 'disingenuous' statements?

Sarcs # 1380 - provides a link to the - AFP – which is worth exploring; it makes a nonsense of the DPM statements and reflects the leadership attitude our disgraced 'Safety' watchdog and the pack of mutts following it about. Tim Tam for Sarcs.

I finally got to see the Ch 7 piece; it's worth a second look, watch the DPM face and body language, carefully. My Mama could beat the boots off this chump at poker – any day of the week.

Ben Sandilands, once again telling it as it is and yet the blighters keep turning up at work, taking their pay and swan about the place, posing as 'expert' front line aviation experts. Fetch the bucket Min, it's puke time again......

I wonder; do you think Chris Reason would be interested in doing the real story; in depth. He could interview Wodger and Uncle Terry first, then have a beer with the BRB. What a hoot.

Smile and say "Cheese" for camera boys.....

Last edited by Kharon; 29th Aug 2013 at 01:18. Reason: Never forget the cheese.
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Old 29th Aug 2013, 03:00
  #1388 (permalink)  
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Beyond Reason(s)

It would appear that Chris Reason and James Reason have something in common - both know how to sniff out something unsafe?
The GWM would not be enjoying any extra attention, but no doubt the crisis team was called into play this morning along with its 'Chair' the Mascot Minister, Mrdork and select available members of the GWM (those not buried up to their socks in a trough somewhere).

Albo's body language was priceless. When Mr Reason first approached him and mentioned Pelair he looked as if he was giving birth to a 13 lb pooh!!! Ouch. Very uncomfortable.
Aargh well, good work Chanel 7, you are on to them Then again, CAsA have been feeding your FOI requests back to you one page at a time for a number of years now haven't they? Naughty Skull, Flyingfiend and Co.
I bet that since the Ch 7 interview CAsA has order a 747 full of turd polish, extra strong!
May I suggest that Chris Reason (aka Honorary IOS) now track down the mi mi mi Beaker and put some questions to him also? Actually you could kill two birds with the same stone as the Beaker and Associate DAS are literally residential neighbours in Canberra Interview them together!

Last edited by 004wercras; 29th Aug 2013 at 03:15.
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Old 29th Aug 2013, 04:33
  #1389 (permalink)  
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I have a dream.

Perhaps pertinent today, but unfortunately we will never see any aviation dream come to fruition in Australia in the foreseeable future. In 48 years I've seen the best and now the worst.

RIP Australian aviation Industry.
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Old 29th Aug 2013, 06:41
  #1390 (permalink)  
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No Frank, the worst is still to come, in the form of a giant smoking hole.
Then all the bureaucracies can pack up their lunch boxes and go home, job complete - Australian aviation finally finishes its long drawn out decent to the lowest level in 30 years. The corks will be popped, backs slapped, reach around's given and marshmallows toasted over the still warm flames engulfing a couple of hundred naive and unknowing burning passengers and crew.

Bravo bravo CAsA and company, the fans go wild, the shout of a regulatory encore echoes through the skies, but there will be no encore, the game will have ended history complete.....
Minnie, flick the switch and turn off the lights as you exit the room, atta girl.

Last edited by 004wercras; 29th Aug 2013 at 06:46.
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Old 29th Aug 2013, 09:14
  #1391 (permalink)  
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A few years ago I worked for a time in a simulation company that offered "flights" to the public in a quasi-737 simulator. No, it wasn't the flight experience mob who advertise for staff these days and, no, it wasn't Microsoft Flight Sim.

One of my customers was a senior journalist who plied his trade in Canberra. He was also something of an aviation enthusiast and we had an enjoyable hour in the simulator. After the session was over there were no further customers and he had some time to fill so we sat down over a coffee and discussed aviation.

This would have been back in 2010 and I pointed out the dire state of aviation matters at the time quoting several examples. I suggested that he contact Sen. Xenophon on his return as he was at the time already showing a keen interest in aviation matters. End result - nothing - not a peep. The public don't think it is an issue.

Kudos to Ch 7, but I suspect the reason was that there was an issue they could ambush the present govt. over. I suggest that if the parties were transposed it would not have been raised. Ben Sandilands is the only journo who takes aviation seriously and he is preaching to the converted.
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Old 29th Aug 2013, 10:34
  #1392 (permalink)  
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Working for CASA or Rudd could be a good thing!!!

Interesting article. But I'm thinking Fort Fumble, and KRudd for that matter are more sociopathic.

Why working for a psychopath can be great |

Plovett, Paul Phelan is passionate about aviation as well and like Ben, he is happy to place his dusters on the line time and time again

Last edited by 004wercras; 29th Aug 2013 at 10:37.
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Old 29th Aug 2013, 21:16
  #1393 (permalink)  
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My apologies, I forgot about Paul who I have also discussed matters aviation with over the years. In fact, Paul has probably the most extensive knowledge of aviation shambles combined with a practical knowledge of what it is like at the sharp end of an aircraft.
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Old 29th Aug 2013, 21:39
  #1394 (permalink)  
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A glimmer

The federal Coalition plans to bring in a prominent member of the international aviation community to conduct an external review of aviation safety and regulations similar to the Wheeler inquiry into aviation security.

It will announce the move today as part of its aviation policy that foreshadows a potential restructure of the Civil Aviation Safety Authority and a strengthening of the CASA board by increasing the number of members from four to six.

It is also promising a formal aviation industry consultative council that would meet regularly with the transport minister to address matters of concern to the wider industry, and an industry complaints commissioner to investigate grievances about the regulator or its operatives "in a reasonable time".

The external safety and regulation review comes after recent adverse findings by the Senate Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Committee and after industry feedback that safety regulations were being inappropriately applied and were too bureaucratic.

"We've had such feedback from the industry about the regulatory process and the operations of CASA, it simply has to be addressed," opposition transport spokesman Warren Truss told The Australian.

"We've also got the inevitable and ongoing differences of opinion in the sector about how everything should be done and I thought the Wheeler Review was actually a very useful exercise in dealing with aviation security.

"Not all the recommendations were perfect, but it acted as a circuit breaker and his report has effectively underpinned all that we've done on aviation security since."
Mr Truss said he thought it highly unlikely there would be a consensus on the best way to proceed with the regulatory system.

"I'm hopeful that we will be able to get a decisive breakthrough as we did with Wheeler," he said, noting the opposition did not have a particular candidate in mind but that it would be someone whose views and work would be respected.

He said a Coalition government would not proceed with changes until the review was completed. He said he would like to have it completed so that key decisions could be made by March, when current CASA boss John McCormick's current term expired.

"There are some things I can do immediately without asking for an outside expert. It's just self-evident," Mr Truss said. "For instance, it's silly to have a board that the CEO is not answerable to, and things like that. But it's better to do it all in one go when a new person is appointed or there is a renewal of a term."

Mr Truss conceded that aviation had been an area "where angels dared to tread", but there was concern about the system wherever he went, particularly among licensed aircraft maintenance engineers.

"The big airlines, they can cope with this, because they've got the people and the systems, but the poor one-man operator or just two or three people at a country airfield, this paper war is something they can't very easily cope with," Mr Truss said.

The policy calls for a firm strategic direction for CASA with renewed focus on meaningful industry consultation, an emphasis on consistency in interpreting the rules and a more timely and streamlined review process.

My bold - From the "Australian".......

Last edited by Kharon; 29th Aug 2013 at 21:43.
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Old 29th Aug 2013, 21:46
  #1395 (permalink)  
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Missed a bit

From the Australian :-

The industry complaints commissioner would be responsible for investigating complaints about CASA personnel and delegates or authorised personnel.

The commissioner would be required to provide a quarterly report to the board and director of aviation safety that included a summary of activities, the number or complaints received and time taken to respond.

"The other issue we get constantly is criticism of differences in the way the same laws are interpreted in different offices by different people," Mr Truss said.

Other key parts of the policy include better utilisation of the airspace.

The Coalition will task Airservices Australia with fast-tracking technological improvements at airports that are supported by both airports and airlines and could improve reliability.

The en-route subsidy scheme would be revived but would be restructured to provide maximum help to marginal routes.
The carbon tax goes as part of the wider Coalition policy, aviation manufacturing would be encouraged and there would be a move to revitalise general aviation.

On the vexed question of a second Sydney airport, the Coalition would make a decision on a second site in its first term of government.
Now is the time for all good men. etc.

Last edited by Kharon; 29th Aug 2013 at 21:57. Reason: Senate threads total reads 831340.
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Old 29th Aug 2013, 21:55
  #1396 (permalink)  
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Is it a "core promise"?

All of what has been discussed here was also occurring when Truss was the responsible minister. He had the chance then and did nothing. Read this and weep.

I am not going to hold my breath on this.
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Old 29th Aug 2013, 22:16
  #1397 (permalink)  
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For the converted.

Ben Sandilands – Plane Talking

"The failure of the deputy PM Anthony Albanese, to take his responsibilities to act on the Pel-Air scandal seriously will bite him badly today when the coalition announces what will be an extremely serious review of air safety administration in Australia.

This is how the announcement is previewed in The Australian.
Aw, c'mon PL – let's at least smile - till smoko. Things are just a little different this time; traps have been set by clever folk. I just can't decide if I want a wabbit pie or bacon sambo; lots of choice on the menu, two varieties of soup; although some of the menu is of dubious quality it's not all worthless. I shall speak to the Chef.
Now then Sir, will ye have nuts or a cigar..........

Last edited by Kharon; 29th Aug 2013 at 22:18. Reason: 831,340
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Old 29th Aug 2013, 23:01
  #1398 (permalink)  
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"For instance, it's silly to have a board that the CEO is not answerable to,
Isn't the DAS on the board? Doesn't this make for a conflict of interest?

The commissioner would be required to provide a quarterly report to the board and director of aviation safety that included a summary of activities, the number or complaints received and time taken to respond.
Wrong! The Commissioner has to report to The Minister.

BTW, on who's payroll, is this new Commissioner?
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Old 29th Aug 2013, 23:11
  #1399 (permalink)  
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A message to Truss !!

Talk is good, it's cheap but its a start. Mr Truss's concerns are noted, and his probable intentions are what I would say 'in the spirit' of the type of changes we need. However he is still off the mark somewhat on numerous criteria, but at least he is a little bit awake.

By way of suggestion to Mr Truss, he ought to consider the following;

• The current Board does not need an increase in trough dwelling bureaucrats whose job is to protect a Minister while squeezing the DAS testicles between thumb and forefinger (they are rumoured to be quite small). The entire Board needs replacing, and should be replaced by 4 senior people with aviation experience. Their role becomes one of actually completing things such as the reg reform, improving aviation safety, enhancing our current system and reporting honestly and transparently with the sole purpose being SAFETY. Even if that means having to make hard decisions. Career bureaucrats serve no value on the Board.
• Restructure of the 'trio of DAS'. The current three should ALL be dumped come March 2014. Replaced by one DAS and one Deputy DAS who have an aviation background but one that includes actual aviation safety knowledge and experience. We don't need test pilots and angry 'one man show ' induviduals steering (I mean attempting to steer) Australian aviation.
• The incoming Government will need to publicly state 'Houston we have a problem', and admit that successive governments have f #cked the whole system. The sore has been ignored and now we have cancerous lesions.
• The ICC - The current set up is an absolute disgrace. Time for some back to basics, and lets use Michael Hart as an example of how the ICC should be run. Perhaps not perfect, but the current set-up is similar to a Mexican court.
• Any Government advisers on aviation matters could be made up to include independents and people like Xenophon and Fawcett, they simply must be considered.
• CAsA restructure - Apart from the obvious need to tear down the current malaise, there needs to be a shitload of tidying up of past events. How? A high level of inquiry/commission must be introduced to sift through the past events that simply will not be closed until justice is served, truth revealed and closure provided to the countless who have been wronged, denied, suffered at the hands of systemic bureaucratic failures, otherwise Australia will continue to be at pains for decades to come, just like NZ still is over Erebus where justice was never served. Closure must be prioritised for;
- The Transair Lockhart farce.
- The Pel Air fiasco
- Canley Vale, the next can of worms.
- Justice for Butson, Stan, Quadrio, James, Urqhart, Hare and the list goes on and on and on.........
• Time line - A 3 year time line, coinciding with the new Governments term should be set for finishing reform, restructuring CAsA, fixing the ATSB (which should include the removal of the three non aviation Commissioners), a Royal Commision or similar to be hopefully completed and apologies/recompense/justice be awarded to aviation victims and accountability including potential charges be laid upon negligent serving and former government employees.
• Mr Truss states that he can introduce some interim measures ? I would trust that might included removing the CAsA AND ATSBeakers top executives prior to the end of March 2014? And Mr Truss, lets see your plans detailed and in writing with a PERSONAL commitment and accountable statement from yourself please. I am sure that your people can draft something next week, it could just win you a lot of aviation voters support
• Assistance - The incoming Government needs to eat a giant shit sandwich and seek assistance from ICAO to start with, followed by a potential working group from the FAA and CAA. Both labor and liberal have proven over the past 25 years that they do not understand aviation, have not been capable or willing to govern aviation, have contributed to the absolute demise in aviation safety standards and contributed to the death of GA. The mere voting in of a new government does not fix the underlying problems.

Anyway, this is just a taste of my bucket list. Perhaps we could start a new thread titled 'Aviation Bucket List 2014', containing no sledging, religion or politics, no waffle, no acronyms and no pigs at trough photos (although that is quite amusing!). Just dot points that can be viewed by not only our aviation community but by the media, politicians and interested parties. After all PPRuNe is a social media site, it has the potential to be a very powerful and effective aviation tool. It is us guys/gals at the pointy end who know what needs to be done, who knows what works, so wouldn't it be in the best interest, the smart interest, of the government to listen to what the IOS have to say??


Last edited by 004wercras; 30th Aug 2013 at 02:25.
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Old 30th Aug 2013, 01:52
  #1400 (permalink)  
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I vote 004 for the choccy frog award.
very to the point mate,
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